Junkie who doesn't want to get smol

[Genetic Freak]

Roger that, I'll definitely get a better idea when I pull bloods, but I'm hopeful since the Arimidex seems to be making a difference in the nip sensitivity. I can afford a relatively comprehensive panel but I'll likely be sticking to basics with Prolactin and the essentials like the test panel etc. .

Yeah it's just a matter of sourcing it reputably, but I'm working on that.

Right now I'm eating tuna fish like it's going out of style with a small helping of mayo/relish to go with. I try not to exceed my surplus too much with the booze intake, so it helps me hit my macros without excess.

Right now my 4-5 daily meals look something like this, along with 4 protein shakes a day.

6 oz Canned Tuna fish
1 tbsp light mayo
1 tbsp relish
3 cups broccoli cutlets

8 oz chicken breast
3 cups broccoli cutlets
1 tbsp italian vinagarette

6 oz 95% lean ground turkey
3 cups broccoli cutlets
6 cups baby spinach
2 cups onions
1 cup tomato sauce

5 eggs
1 cup shredded cheese
6 cups baby spinach

Variations of this with the odd take out meal included. Usually a decently clean dish though.

Where are your healthy fat sources.? You could add more coloured vegetables for essential nutrients..

Drop the sauces, you don't need refined fructose (sugar)..
At 15% body fat is too high, excess body fat can induce aromatization of testosterone to estrogen, as the aromatase enzyme CYP19A1 is present largely in adipose (fat) tissue..
Alcohol consumption can lower testosterone levels by negatively impacting GnRH, LH, and FSH, and increase estrogen, impacting prolactin..

You don't need a dopamine agonist (cabergoline), you need to drop the alcohol..

We are a harm reduction forum primarily, we don't promote unnecessary polypharmacy...

 

[Dandreas345]

Where are your healthy fat sources.? You could add more coloured vegetables for essential nutrients..

Drop the sauces, you don't need refined fructose (sugar)..
At 15% body fat is too high, excess body fat can induce aromatization of testosterone to estrogen, as the aromatase enzyme CYP19A1 is present largely in adipose (fat) tissue..
Alcohol consumption can lower testosterone levels by negatively impacting GnRH, LH, and FSH, and increase estrogen, impacting prolactin..

You don't need a dopamine agonist (cabergoline), you need to drop the alcohol..

We are a harm reduction forum primarily, we don't promote unnecessary polypharmacy...

I've been incorporating eggs, avocados, and cashews to a variety of the meals I described in my meal post. Nutrition is typically pretty dialed in for me but I always have room for improvement, and I do notice I tend to focus too heavily on protein intake rather than the healthy fats/carbs although I do get a fairly balanced ratio on the day to day.

I definitely get that excess fat %, while the fat % is definitely an estimate due to it just being a biometric scan scale, and I use a caliper for some more accuracy so it is likely somewhat lower than that. I also gained a little faux fat percentage from the bloat/water weight initially when I began cycle. Not to say you're incorrect, I definitely can say it could be more ideal a situation.

I'm working on dropping the alcohol with the help of the benzos, and have 2 days left in a taper I unfortunately had to extend. But progress is steady. Looking forward to being free from it.

I understand the harm reduction aspect of the forum boards here and greatly appreciate them and all of your and everyone else's responses and input. Hugely. Thank you all again.

If sans alcohol/lower body fat/etc I still experience the aforementioned sides would you then be a proponent of the caber in the case of excess prolactin? Or if, while I'm still tapering and I see it's high, perhaps low dose caber while I'm still removing the alcohol from my system? I'm getting labs pulled soon so I'll know for sure for sure.

 

[Dandreas345]

So you do got some carbs in your plan - that's good and needed. IMO, eat enough carbs to give you high energy for your workouts and throughout the day

About the winny. IIRC it does have an effect on progesterone & hence prolactin. The extent of that effect I'm not sure of, but I wouldn't depend on winstrol to control & lessen my gyno symptoms.

The A.I you're using should keep the gyno from increasing in size, once you get the caber it can and most likely will shrink the lump you have a little bit.

@Dandreas345 : Diet is one of the most important factors when it comes to gains, and your diet so far is pretty good from what I see. Keep it up man Make sure you get the caber as soon as you can & post the bloods as soon as you get em'

Sorry man, just seeing this now, I don't know why notifications don't show for me sometimes on here. I definitely am keeping more emphasis on the diet recommendations highlighted by you and other members who have chimed in, really appreciate it man!

Yeah, it's kind of a bro-ey oldschool myth I suppose. Most of the first hand accounts I've seen online have been like, "My uncle told me in the 90's he ran winny to control prolactin and E2 levels etc" before AI's were popular. The research though seems to show it doesn't do what you'd need out of prolactin inhibition though, so likely a farce.

Yeah, Adex definitely is holding it down on the homefront with the extent of progression. It's halted for sure. Although it had the added side effect of I believe crashing my levels to an uncomfortable extent last night when I had a fuck buddy over. Still got the job done but good lord it was freaky since I've never had any erectile dysfunction issues, whether drunk, high, or anything else. Today things are back to normal, so I'll dial it back a bit more, until I find a happy medium for dosing.

Bloods on the way Monday morning, so I'll have them posted on here by Monday evening for sure.

Thanks again my guy.

Winstrol is a DHT derivative so it may prevent gyno development due to reducing the effects of Estrogen, but I never heard any mention of anti prolactin activity.

In my opinion it is a worse alternative to Masteron for Estrogen management due to the liver toxicity, and does not offer advantages.

I got you. Mast is in the works as well, just planning on having all the stops on hand for potential options and I don't see a downside to running supplemental Masteron as you've said in previous posts.

Phobos pretty much has said everything I'd have wanted to.
For the sake of harm reduction: cut out the other drug use if you intend to use orals. There's also not much need to use orals either. The medium acting test that is enanthat/cypionate will gradually climb and elevate serum levels over the course of its administration and elimination. You also have no idea how certain compounds will react with your body. I'd recommend reading the First cycle sticky. It will answer basically all of your questions. It is probably the most under utilized post on this board and would eliminate most of the redundant questions we answer here on a regular basis.

Definitely based on the guidance from you and other forum members posting I will not run orals before A) I run a full liver function panel post alcohol cessation and B) Before I cut the alcohol out completely.

I definitely cruised the first cycle sticky before I ever posted this thread and it's definitely solid and concise and a no bullshit common sense plan. I may still run the Winny towards the end once I've done the above mentioned steps and not before, but I'm just really tempted to see the effects especially towards the end of my cycle, if all else is well with me.

 

[Dandreas345]

A little update for the purposes of logging, and whoever would like to follow along --

Vitamin B6 has seemingly been very effective in Prolactin inhibition for my purposes. I've not taken an AI since my last IM injection Saturday, and my nipples are no longer sensitive in the least. No redness or lumps or sensitivity whatsoever. I'm going to assume that my issue was Prolactin, since the natural prolactin inhibitor in vitamin B6 has appeared to clear these issues with sides up.

Unfortunately was unable to get bloods this AM, due to logistical issues IE- Transportation. However I will be getting it this morning and look forward to more conclusive on paper answers.

Thanks to all who have responded and provided advice and input. Truly been a big help and I'm really appreciative of this community.

 

[Serotonin101]

Good deal on getting the blood work. It's best to have empirical data to work with so you're not shooting in the dark so to speak and doing unnecessary chemical warfare in your body

 

[Dandreas345]

Thought I'd check in here as I haven't in quite a while.

Experiencing relatively (seemingly) rapid hair loss/hair thinning. I'm shedding a decent amount a day. Hopeful that it is teflogen based and not male pattern baldness, as one will grow back, the other will not.

On week 3 now of weekly injections, I've spread the dose out to 2x a week, 125mg 2x a week. I also took a .5mg of Arimidex, as I was experiencing pretty some water retention again, and thinking back also other symptoms of higher E. I started experiencing cracking in my joints throughout my body whenever I moved for a period of an hour or more. This was about 4-6 hours after taking the Arimidex. This could well have been caused by other variables, such as drug/alcohol use and/or dehydration. After I drank some liquids, and slowed down the liquor it seemed to dissapate a great deal.

Gyno is under control with use of P5P, and Vitamin E, as far as I can tell. I have bloods ordered for Testosterone, free and Prolactin, which is unfortunately all I can afford, but it will definitely narrow things down for me in terms of what needs to be addressed, and what doesn't. As I gain more monetary means to afford more labs, I will be pulling everything I am meant to, including lipids, HDL, Cholesterol, Liver function panel, etc. .

Gains are very good, despite all these obstacles. Although the gym was shut down for a few days due to some maintenance retardation. So I was stuck at home doing push ups and using my straight bar and dumbbells up to 100lbs. I got a fair amount done, but I experienced a few bad days in which I didn't do as much as I should've, drank far too much, and didn't eat enough, or when I did it was garbage mainly. Thanksgiving also coincided with this time, so the food issue was rampant among social events etc. . I am now back to my diet dialed in, and minimal drinking under 12 ounces of vodka a day.

Nutrition has definitely gotten into more carbohydrates, but I keep it moderate with more focus on proteins and fats, keeping it at a good 100-300 cal surplus, and not really gaining fat to speak of.

I can definitely see more mass in me, more vascularity and definition, and a great deal of overall progress -- physically. Strength jumps as well. So that's good! I'll take the good with the bad, as these circumstances are not ideal. I've even had a few guys I know who are former IFBB pro card guys tell me that I likely hyper respond to the gear, considering the quick progress from the get go, which is great!

TL;DR - Sides are decreasing, although new hair loss is being noticed. AI is being dialed in, no bloods yet because I'm a haphazard piece of shit, liquor and/or drug use has stabilized post thanksgiving and bad days, and gains are most excellent and rewarding despite all of this.

 

[0.o_LaCuNa_o.0]

• Arimidex itself can cause hair thinning along with bone & joint issues.

• Side effects of low estrogen in men includes bone & joint issues, and water retention.

I know water bloat is annoying, especially when you look in the mirror, but I think it's a normal outcome that's to be expected in anyone that's on AAS & consuming alcohol.

How much Arimidex per week are you using? Testosterone itself can also cause hair thinning/loss but you're on a relatively low dose IMO(some are just more sensitive than others). And have you ever considered substituting alcohol with weed(weed is good for bodybuilders IME)?

 

[Dandreas345]

• Arimidex itself can cause hair thinning along with bone & joint issues.

• Side effects of low estrogen in men includes bone & joint issues, and water retention.

I know water bloat is annoying, especially when you look in the mirror, but I think it's a normal outcome that's to be expected in anyone that's on AAS & consuming alcohol.

How much Arimidex per week are you using? Testosterone itself can also cause hair thinning/loss but you're on a relatively low dose IMO(some are just more sensitive than others). And have you ever considered substituting alcohol with weed(weed is good for bodybuilders IME)?

Thanks for your response once again bro!

Before that 0.5mg Arimidex I hadn't used AI since before the 2nd injection a week before that. It cleared the water retention right up, and although I did experience the joint popping effect, it went away very shortly after that as well, within an hour.

The hair loss began well before that dose, and the dose before it was back there a week ago at 0.75mg. You could well be correct however if it is a cumulative effect, and I'm jumping the gun on the AI. I really hope not, but I accept the consequences of this choice, and I'm okay with it. Bald and/or balding isn't the worst thing ever honestly.

I'm using 0.25mg after each injection currently, so 0.25mg 2x per week. 0.5mg total per week.

I am definitely on low dose, however the source I'm using is extremely well reviewed via independent lab testing to be top notch. So I think perhaps it may make a difference in the ultimate blood concentrations/effects/etc. . I've also been told by a few guys that had their IFBB pro card, that I appear to be a "hyper-responder", to gear considering my drug and alcohol circumstances, my low dosage, and how I've responded. However I know that is a touted term in this world.

I'm not sure if they're just blowing smoke up my ass or if they're legit, but they aren't the type to really. I haven't found many bodybuilders to be that type anyways.

I would smoke weed instead but unfortunately still working on drawing down my dependence to alcohol, I may just go to the hospital at some point and present in withdrawal so that they give me a take home benzo taper script, and then be done with it. Also weed hasn't agreed with me as much in recent years, so I'd probably go with at least minimal use or edibles perhaps. The only alcohol alternative I've seen, which is common among BBers is GHB, and I know that is a slippery road as well.

 

[0.o_LaCuNa_o.0]

Thanks for your response once again bro!

Before that 0.5mg Arimidex I hadn't used AI since before the 2nd injection a week before that. It cleared the water retention right up, and although I did experience the joint popping effect, it went away very shortly after that as well, within an hour.

The hair loss began well before that dose, and the dose before it was back there a week ago at 0.75mg. You could well be correct however if it is a cumulative effect, and I'm jumping the gun on the AI. I really hope not, but I accept the consequences of this choice, and I'm okay with it. Bald and/or balding isn't the worst thing ever honestly.

I'm using 0.25mg after each injection currently, so 0.25mg 2x per week. 0.5mg total per week.

I am definitely on low dose, however the source I'm using is extremely well reviewed via independent lab testing to be top notch. So I think perhaps it may make a difference in the ultimate blood concentrations/effects/etc. . I've also been told by a few guys that had their IFBB pro card, that I appear to be a "hyper-responder", to gear considering my drug and alcohol circumstances, my low dosage, and how I've responded. However I know that is a touted term in this world.

I'm not sure if they're just blowing smoke up my ass or if they're legit, but they aren't the type to really. I haven't found many bodybuilders to be that type anyways.

I would smoke weed instead but unfortunately still working on drawing down my dependence to alcohol, I may just go to the hospital at some point and present in withdrawal so that they give me a take home benzo taper script, and then be done with it. Also weed hasn't agreed with me as much in recent years, so I'd probably go with at least minimal use or edibles perhaps. The only alcohol alternative I've seen, which is common among BBers is GHB, and I know that is a slippery road as well.

I personally tried GHB. Never worked for me because I got the dosages off, but it was tasteless, easy to swallow, felt like water mixed with air.

Supposedly it can replace alcohol for the drunken sought after effect(without intoxication), & it helps bodybuilders with muscle development(through increased GH). If it's increasing GH it will/should also increase fat loss.

I'd like to try GHB again in the future when I can get the dosages right.

"appear to be a "hyper-responder"
That's excellent they're telling you that I agree, it seems legit, I don't think pros are gonna be wasting their time giving compliments to random beginner AAS users. I would keep that in mind as much as I can and use that as a nice psychological boost when needed!

That being said you got me curious what your before & after is going to be like heh

Keep it up @Dandreas345, but remember we need the bloods!

 

[Dandreas345]

I personally tried GHB. Never worked for me because I got the dosages off, but it was tasteless, easy to swallow, felt like water mixed with air.

Supposedly it can replace alcohol for the drunken sought after effect(without intoxication), & it helps bodybuilders with muscle development(through increased GH). If it's increasing GH it will/should also increase fat loss.

I'd like to try GHB again in the future when I can get the dosages right.

"appear to be a "hyper-responder"
That's excellent they're telling you that I agree, it seems legit, I don't think pros are gonna be wasting their time giving compliments to random beginner AAS users. I would keep that in mind as much as I can and use that as a nice psychological boost when needed!

That being said you got me curious what your before & after is going to be like heh

Keep it up @Dandreas345, but remember we need the bloods!

Interesting. I find it very difficult to get a hold of beyond nefarious dark web shit. So I'll likely just keep looking for alternatives haha. Would be really nice to try at some point, I'll probably just keep the feelers out and see if anything bites.

Well they weren't exactly random pros. I have a few people I know around the way who are not really friends, more acquaintances, but I do come in contact with them fairly regularly, and they mentioned this to me. I know that just because they got the card, doesn't mean they know what they're doing or that they 100% know what they're talking about so I take it all with a grain of salt. Absolutely a little psychological boost though, and makes me optimistic for the future, and perhaps exploring more in the world of bodybuilding once I'm clean and squared away.

I'm super curious too man. Not even on week 4 yet, and the results are palpable.

EDIT: Ah forgot to mention, yes bloods will be available to me in the next few days, getting at least the basics covered today.

 

[Serotonin101]

In the essence of harm reduction, GBL is usually easier to find than GHB and with some quality control.

 

[Genetic Freak]

I personally tried GHB. Never worked for me because I got the dosages off, but it was tasteless, easy to swallow, felt like water mixed with air.

Supposedly it can replace alcohol for the drunken sought after effect(without intoxication), & it helps bodybuilders with muscle development(through increased GH). If it's increasing GH it will/should also increase fat loss.

I'd like to try GHB again in the future when I can get the dosages right.

GHB is not tasteless, its disgusting...

 

[Serotonin101]

GHB is not tasteless, its disgusting...

The one time I had it, it was extremely fucking salty

 

[0.o_LaCuNa_o.0]

GHB is not tasteless, its disgusting...

"In its liquid form, GHB looks like water. It has no smell, and is tasteless or has a slightly salty or solvent taste that can be easily masked. It is usually sold as a liquid in small vials."

Shit I had was tasteless man.

 

[Genetic Freak]

"In its liquid form, GHB looks like water. It has no smell, and is tasteless or has a slightly salty or solvent taste that can be easily masked. It is usually sold as a liquid in small vials."

Shit I had was tasteless man.

Neat its f*cking disgusting... very obvious taste, you kinda know, if you know...