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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

Jeremy Corbyn: A very old fashioned breath of fresh air?

...I'd much rather go for a drink with a clergyman than a fucking Dawkinsite, pious bastards that they are to a man (and yes, they're usually men).

Yes, except the dawkinsite is more likely to have some drugs on them, and the subject of little boys might come up when the vicar's pissed, but apart from that, agreed ;). But really, isn't it a ton of lead versus a ton of feathers question? A shit athiest is worse than a brilliant clergyman (and vice versa)
 
It's pretty much impossible to implement in practice in a way that isn't wide-open to abuse, so really not in the "serious" category of demands. Compare requiring licences to have children.

The problem with Dawkinsites is that it really doesn't take a massive amount of mental effort to work out that all Gods are made up, so anyone who makes a big thing about their atheism (as opposed to actively fighting for a fair society in which everyone gets the chance to make the most of the one life they get) is making a big thing of being at least as smart as a six-year-old.
 
I'd say the problem (with atheists not dawkinsites) is the tendency to strawman all versions of god together, however sophisticated (or however similar to vaunted western philosophy/science), and dismiss them as if they're all a man with a beard sitting on a cloud ;).
 
It's pretty much impossible to implement in practice in a way that isn't wide-open to abuse, so really not in the "serious" category of demands. Compare requiring licences to have children.

The problem with Dawkinsites is that it really doesn't take a massive amount of mental effort to work out that all Gods are made up, so anyone who makes a big thing about their atheism (as opposed to actively fighting for a fair society in which everyone gets the chance to make the most of the one life they get) is making a big thing of being at least as smart as a six-year-old.

Quite!

I'd say the problem (with atheists not dawkinsites) is the tendency to strawman all versions of god together, however sophisticated (or however similar to vaunted western philosophy/science), and dismiss them as if they're all a man with a beard sitting on a cloud ;).

Also very true. The specific problem with Dawskinsites (in my experience) tends to be their physical hideousness. Which inevitably leads them to believe there is no God, and that a biologist with a sub-GCSE grasp of both theology and history can lend credence to their deep-seated resentment of nature.
 
conflating muslims in general with ISIS / alqaeda is like saying all christians are members of the KKK. get a grip.

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I don't know if it is Ceres. If you read "The end of faith" by Sam Harris he goes into the myth of the "tolerant" muslim and says the koran and hadithas don't have any tolerance in them. They repeat countless times, in a thousand different ways "slaughter all unbelievers". He says people call muslims "tolerant" when they're in a minority small enough that they can't influence public policy. As soon as such "tolerant" muslims achieve any power they'll be chucking gays off buildings too.
 
I don't know if it is Ceres. If you read "The end of faith" by Sam Harris he goes into the myth of the "tolerant" muslim and says the koran and hadithas don't have any tolerance in them. They repeat countless times, in a thousand different ways "slaughter all unbelievers". He says people call muslims "tolerant" when they're in a minority small enough that they can't influence public policy. As soon as such "tolerant" muslims achieve any power they'll be chucking gays off buildings too.

Well i didn't read that book, but i did read the quran (well, i skimmed, but no more than the bible) - i don't recognise that characterisation - apart from anachronisms and adjusting for context, the overwhelming message was peace and love. Did you read it? (and that doesn''t mean a right wing quote mining website) - and there is a difference between the verses and haditha.

I have met many tolerant muslims (all the ones i've met actually) - plus what would you call sufis? Anyway we should get back to corbyn (peace be upon him ;)) - take it the theo thread
 
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It sounded pretty fucking deranged to me vurt :)

But back to Stormin' Corbyn
 
violence from islamist groups is basically saudi form of islam, wahabism, these are the nutters preaching hatred and funding ISIS. I've travelled in plenty of countries which are 'muslim' and never met anyone that remotely gave me any vibe they wanted to chop my head off or blow me up.

As BecomingJulie pointed out, a lot of the younger generation are less religious and it is much like most peoples relationship with the curch in england, its something their grandparents and maybe parents are into but the younger generation are more ambilavent.

you can find any numebr of incitments to violence and intolerance in any religious text, there is nothing wrong with islam that isn't found in any other religion.

This is a complex issue though and the fact that terrorists seem to come from countries that the UK / US / Israel has bombed the shit out of for decades could just as easily be seen as the causative factor and the religion of these people just an aside.

anyway back to jeremy corbyn and the kicking in the nuts of the plutocracy!
 
He's a "Social-Democrat"/reformist useful idiot, but as usual with UK politics it's a case of the least-worst option. :/

It's quite funny how he keeps getting compared to tony benn and michael foot, when his actual policies are closer to dennis healy's or the sdp - the mythical movable feast of the centre ground rolls on.
 
He's a "Social-Democrat"/reformist useful idiot, but as usual with UK politics it's a case of the least-worst option. :/
"Worst" is already a superlative. You mean "least bad".
It's quite funny how he keeps getting compared to tony benn and michael foot, when his actual policies are closer to dennis healy's or the sdp - the mythical movable feast of the centre ground rolls on.
The thing is, there is a lot of ground to the left of where modern British politicians are sitting today.
 
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As BecomingJulie pointed out, a lot of the younger generation are less religious and it is much like most peoples relationship with the curch in england, its something their grandparents and maybe parents are into but the younger generation are more ambilavent.

I disagree.

We're not seeing a wave of middle aged men sneaking off to Syria are we ? It's teenagers and people in their early 20s.
 
Two years ago the media were practically recruiting people to go and fight in the 'jihad' against assad - some channel 4 news reports even started apologising for al nusra - now people going for similar motives are enemy number one (btw i think all terrorist are bad (and me a corbyn supporter)). A recent trial against a 'jihadi' had to be dropped when it had to be admitted that the organisation he was accused of joining was supported and financed by the british at the time.

Even now they claim there are goodie terrorists (moderates/freedom fighters) fighting assad, and manage to miss the huge columns of shiny toyotas driving through open desert with all their sattelites and drones. The airstrikes (ours and turkey's) seem to have a funny habit of not doing much against isis - and then there was that story about the SAS being in syria, dressed as ISIS doing coordinated attacks against assad. The whole thing stinks, and the stinkiest bit is not the bottom feeder jihadi duped by a propaganda machine, but the nations that pay for all the arms and the PR (and oil). ISIS and alnusra are simply the modern version of the mujaheddin - a saudi/US proxy army to be sent wherever some destabilisation is needed (like bosnia, chechnya, dagestan, uighyr china etc etc)
 
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a lot of the arms and oil are coming from libya, facilitated by the CIA (which is why they tried to cover up what happened at benghazi) made possible by NATO turning libya into a lawless militant paradise. (nice job david cameron)

the fact britain is great friends with saudi arabia, arming them while they bomb the shit out of yemen currently, while on the other hand saudis are funding the wahabbi mentalists that are ISIS and affiliates, makes me utterly sick.

the simplistic narrative of 'muslims bad muslims want to kill us all' peddled by the right wing media in this country for the last 15 years is just smoke and mirrors obscuring the bigger picture, it has warped public perceptions of reality and allowed extreme right wing views to flourish in the UK.

jeremy corbyn seens through all this shit and has ideas for tackling these issues that are far more nuanced than david camerons 'BOMB THE FUCKERS'.
 
It's good to see Corbyn acknowledging such, but he's hardly the first politician to do so.

In fact, anybody with a basic grasp of First World War politics could tell you what's happening and why.
 
On the other hand, Saudi/Turkey/Iran etc have more than enough planes to sort out ISIS but they just sit on their jacksy while "the west" spends billions bombing the silly fuckers. I'm pretty sure if even the "tolerant" muslims had power in the UK we'd have to live by some intensely fucking deranged policies. I can't see anything positive whatsoever coming out of Islam. In fact most of them believe like it says in the koran - the more they fuck up the world the more likely God is to come down for the final apocalypse and take them to fucking 72 virgins land.

Can anyone would tell me why you'd even want 72 virgins in the afterlife when you won't have a penis anyway?
 
Iran are actually quite heavily involved, the fact they are our natural ally in the region is just inconvenient for the americans and israelis who have been constantly demonising iran for years, why do you think they have suddenly reached a deal with iran? Iran is in there getting its hands dirty fighting ISIS.

i think you're confusing muslims with evangelical christian fundamentalists in the USA who want the rapture to arrive by supporting Israel no matter how evil and criminal it gets in its behaviour.

the koran is a lot like the christian bible in that it served a purpose at the time of having some guidelines to livng a healthy functional life and developing good community relations, it isn't some book of machiaevelian evil. Even buddhism was able to be used in WW2 to indoctrinate japanese soldiers to commit hideous war crimes.

Regular muslims consistently say that people fighting with ISIS etc are not muslims, they don't behave like muslims and they violate the teachings of the koran. Try talking to some and getting their view on things, the media narrative is totally disconnected from reality.

Ismene : have you seen the film Syriana? It shows exactly the kind of people who end up being suicide bombers for ISIS and why they end up doing it. - It is uneducated naive kids living in poverty being groomed by terrorists to think they are doing gods work and fill their head with that shit.
 
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I don't think there's much noble about the irania funded shia death squads tho - one of the reasons IS get support is the sunnis know if the death squads come back they'll kill everything that walks or crawls.

I just can't see a single positive idea in Islam - their idea of women is deranged, gays deranged, animals deranged, other religions deranged. Can you point me out a positive idea in Islam?
 
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