JB336, N-methyl-3-piperidyl benzilate

[Ham-milton]

When going through Schedule 1 of the US CSA, I came across N-methyl-3-piperidyl benzilate- but the thing is, despite searching around, I can't find anyting out about it.

"Psychotogenic" is one of the terms used to describe it, so is "anticholinergic."

So what the hell is this thing- and why is it in C1? AFACT, it deserves inclusion far less than the hundreds of substances that aren't included- like desoxypipradol or tramadol.

 

[mad_scientist]

Its one of those potent, long-acting anticholinergic deleriants that were developed as chemical weapons.

Heres the wiki page on one of the better known ones

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3-quinuclidinyl_benzilate

There are a few of these compounds, they have effects like datura but way stronger and lasting for like 3-4 days.

Not at all recreational, but definitely potentially dangerous...they're on the illegal drugs list for the same reason that drugs like thalidomide and cantharidin are on there, not because they have high abuse potential as such, but more that they pose a high risk to public health and should be restricted.

Actually these are the kind of compounds that I think should stay illegal, even after all the recreational drugs get legalised again....

 

[Ham-milton]

Thanks, that's really interesting. That's the only out-and-out banned one of them, though BZ is definitely more known.

Odd

 

[otb01]

Aren't bio-warfare chems regulated in international law/other fed. laws anyways making its sched I inclusion rather irrelevant?

 

[Ham-milton]

^ That's what I would have thought. It's kind of an anomally here.

is anomally spelled right??

 

[mad_scientist]

Nah the UN Chemical Weapons Convention 1992 has a list of scheduled compounds just like the drug schedules, but similarly to the drug schedules there are still compounds that didn't get added for whatever reason.

The nerve agents like sarin, VX etc have analogues provisions, so anything structurally similar to nerve agents is prohibited, but the only anticholinergic benzilate compound listed is BZ itself, 3-Quinuclidinyl benzilate.

The piperidyl benzilates aren't listed under the CWC which would explain why they put them on C1 instead, because its much easier to just add new drugs to the domestic illegal drugs list than it is to get all the various state parties together to amend the UN convention.

Dunno why the piperidyl benzilates wouldn't have been listed on the CWC, only reason I could think of is that maybe they're used in scientific research and adding them to the chemical weapons list might interfere with that, but then BZ and indeed the nerve agents are widely used in legitimate research by people who have the appropriate licenses.

 

[mad_scientist]

Oh I get it now. The N,N-disubstituted quaternary amines of these piperidyl benzilates are used in medicine in some countries, they don't cross the BBB because of the permanent charge on the nitrogen, and the peripheral anticholinergic effect is useful for treating diarrhea.

So they wouldn't have wanted to put in a broad analogues provision in the CWC about the benzilate derivatives because some of them are used in medicine.

 

[Ham-milton]

But wasn't JB336 included since the inception of the CSA? Before analogues were on the radar?

Oh, I suppose analogues of substances used in warfare aren't at all produced in settings the way recreationals are.

 

[egor]

I woulndt mind getting gasses with that

 

[fastandbulbous]

Well trying to get precursors to the 3-piperidyl benzilates eg N-methyl-3-piperidol; N-ethyl-3-piperidol & 3-quinuclidinol will get you in deep shit as their sale is very heavily monitored along with the likes of di-(2-hydroxyethyl)thioether as precursors to chemical weapons (& these days, with all the paranoia about terrorism, it'll probably end up with you being questioned by spooks instead of law enforcement, which is probably a sight worse).

Along with the chemical weapons precursors, sales of anything other than tiny amounts of boron compounds will get you the same result (boron alloys are used in the making of ultracentrifuges for the separation of the hexafluoride compounds of U235 & U238)


Actually, the effects of N-methyl-3-piperidyl benzilate are mentioned in 'The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test' as they were evaluated along with LSD, AMT etc at Menlo Park hospital in the late 50s/early 60s. They can cause euphoria (of a sort) at very low doses, similar to anticholinergics used to treat Parkinsons, but at higher doses they are deleriants; they do have less peripheral effects than atropine & scopolamine though

 

[ralf2]

A similar drug, Ditran (mix of N-ethyl-2-pyrrolidinemethyl cyclopentylphenylglycolate and N-ethyl-3-piperidyl cyclopentylphenylglycolate), has actually been tried as an antidepressant. During some unrelated tests they noted that some persons seemed to get a lift in mood after a few days after taking it. But unless the dose was high enough for a real hallucinogenic/psychotomimetic episode, no antidepressant effect was noted.

 

[otb01]

What I meant is that in AMERICA with ANTITERRORISM LEGISLATION then having JB336 as a biowarfare agent would prob be worse than just posession of it under CSA.

 

[vecktor]

I think these piperidyl benzilates were banned because there was limited but growing abuse of them in the late 1960's and early 1970's in the west coast and they were easy to ban because they were pretty useless medicinally.
QNB does not need to be illegal because it has inbuilt abuse prevention features...