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Heroin IV heroin dosing questions

burn out

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 11, 2006
Messages
7,974
Location
Michigan
Hello everyone.

Background: I am a heroin addict, long time snorter just switched to IVing.

Now I have noticed when I inject, the high comes on very intense. I don't just mean the initial rush, but I mean, even after that it feels more intense than it is going to be. For example, tonight I injected about 90 mg of heroin (God knows how pure) and not only was there a rush but even after that, I felt very high and I was nodding a bit. Then 15 minutes later, I barely felt high at all anymore. I mean, yes I was high but not like before. So I snorted some hjeroin to bring me back up.

Obviously I feel like I am not taking a high enough dose and that is why I need to snort heroin after I inject to get me to the proper level of highness (or height should I say?) but because of how intense it was in the beginning, I am afraid that if I increase the significantly more than this, I'll overdose. I won't make it past the beginning phase. So, is this normal? What do you guys recommend when it comes to dosing IV for how to stay safe?

Also, what does a missed shot feel like?
 
The intense rush is the 6-MAM metabolite which hits fast and hard. The remaining high (the 'legs') is mostly due to the action of the morphine metabolite. You say you're an addict, so you have some experience: are you saying lately the rush is hitting harder than in the past? Fentanyl as a cut will result in more intense rush, way shorter legs.

As for your dosing, this isn't HR, just an observation: it's harder to overdose on heroin than people tend to realize. The dosage range is large. People OD when they're used to shooting 6 of these bags per shot for a nod, get a bundle of different dope and start with 6 bags that could easily be three times as potent.

Nodding or blacking out ~10-30 seconds after administering a shot is more of an immediate severe overdose situation. The less acute (equally serious) overdose may not lead to intense nodding/unconsciousness for 30-60 minutes, around the time my normal nod sets in after a good shot, and in that situation it's best to stay awake and breathing. Next time you feel like you're in one of your better nods, check your heart rate and see how well you're automatically breathing. As you go higher, breathing becomes an act of will and not so involuntary, and I would reconsider my dose if I began experiencing shallow breathing or nodding in a way that might keep me asleep and unable to "choose" to respirate ;)

Sucks supplementing shots with bumps or even more shots since there's a bare minimum dose needed for a satisfying, worthwhile rush. If you're sure your dope doesn't have fentanyl in it start dosing a little higher so you don't have to supplement later. Your caution is good, but one shot, one experience is so much nicer than bumping to get there or further puncturing veins to only administer another 20 mg to get "just right." For what it's worth, my "good rush" functional dose is exactly half of my "good nod" dose. That's quite a wide safe use range therein, and with cautious sampling of new product to derive a purity estimate from, and a milligram scale for each dose, you should be able to get the perfect dose every time. Dosing accurately so the rig is perfect the first time every time is key, but I find in doing so I'm much less likely to impulsively redose and end up doing three or four shots on a day where I was just planning on doing one. There could be positive disciplinary side of that :P

Your stuff being cut with fentanyl is pretty unlikely as it isn't that common to do, but it being fent-laced certainly gels with some of what you say, about the intense initial rush and weaker short-lasting high after that. ODing on fentanyl would provide a more significant rush and more immediate respiratory failure, a reason to be mindful of dosing high upfront (in one shot). I find hydromorphone, oxymorphone and fentanyl to have an intense, ass-kicking rush, whereas heroin's is calming, quiet and not overpowering.

Maybe I'm being over-analytical, though. You said you only recently went from snorting H to IVing it. The rush from the 6-MAM is MUCH more pronounced and more obviously a second high separate from the long-lasting morphine high when IVing as opposed to snorting. The 6-MAM hits so fast and feels pretty much all gone after 60 minutes, then you have 4-5 hours of a strong morphine high to enjoy.

A missed shot feels like a dull bruise that can burn a bit depending on the substance(s) left behind. It's extremely easy to treat the immediate issue, getting the shot into you fast. Whenever you missed will red and eventually the solution will float to the top of your skin, possibly having migrated some, unless the shot was too deep to do so. Go to the sink and get the water in the sink as hot as you can possibly bear. Put your arm or wherever the missed shot is in the sink and run hot water over it for 5 minutes solid, then massage with a hot compress for another 5-10 minutes. One time I did this while staring myself in the eyes in the mirror. I missed the whole damn shot, so my pupils were normal, and I watched the drug sink in in a matter of minutes, pin-point my pupils and put me close to nodding :P

P.S.: Someone is more likely to accidentally overdose when supplementing doses when they're already high than a cautious user with known product that has been weighed so you're dosing +/-5mg of your known good dose, a small enough amount to increment by that will let you know without killing you when you're approaching OD territory. I doubt your max dose ever even gets near it.
 
Thank for that very informative response. I think you're totally right about there being more danger of overdose when supplementing doses when already high vs the initial dose. So I guess the way to proceed from here is just to keep gradually increasing my initial dose until I find the sweet spot. I do have a mg scale.

You say you're an addict, so you have some experience: are you saying lately the rush is hitting harder than in the past? Fentanyl as a cut will result in more intense rush, way shorter legs.

I am an addict but I literally just started IVing (two days ago) so I don't have enough experience to answer this. I haven't experienced a real rush from snorting since way back when I first started doing heroin and had no opiate tolerance. I am just saying that when I IV, I feel very high in the beginning and then 15 minutes later I feel much more sober again, as opposed to what I am used to with sniffing if I get really high then I am going to be pretty high for a while. My whole concern was, if I can go from such as intense rush as I experienced today (my facial muscles were actually trembling involantarily) to not even being that high afterward, I am actually frightened at the intensity of the rush for which a dose that would get me properly high would be. Id be scared of overdosing. But I think your post answered my question, as I said the way to proceed is to just very carefully increase the dose little by little.
 
IME rush intensity doesn't follow a response linear to the dose. There's a point of diminishing returns after so high. For example, I can do 20 mg and not get what I'd call a rush at all. Just sort of a quick comeup and plateau. Double that and I get what I find to be the best mix of rush intensity, duration, and wakefulness later on. If I double that to say 80 mg, the rush won't be thatmuch better--feels like the initial wave of MAM-6 lasts longer with the bigger dose (but it seems to flood my brain at the same rate regardless of dose), the initial high will stay intense for a good 45-60 minutes, and after that I'll start nodding my ass off, not able to fully appreciate the euphoria until I'm wakeful against 5 hours in and nearly baseline.

Like you said, just keep dosing a little bit higher. You won't go from "65mg, this feels fine" to "70mg, I think I'm OD'ing." You will know, and with your scale and patience in testing a new batch, it shouldn't even be a possibility.

I can't really comment on the other differences between snorting/IVing as I've never snorted dope :P One reason I can think of the high's course being different is there's gradual absorption of insufflated heroin, and with IV heroin you release everything at once. Everything that's going to turn into 6-MAM will and it'll be taken care of. If snorting it, the powder will absorb gradually and perhaps the high's stages are less distinct as a result.

By the way, don't expect two rushes within the same six hour period... Better yet, don't expect a ton from rushes anyway :P They're not good enough justification for going from a once a day habit to a three times a day habit, and that first shot at just the right dose will always be the best of the day.
 
burn out, you just started IVing so it's not too late to go back to just snorting. I have IVd a few times over the years (when I only had a tiny bit left that I knew wouldn't get me high by snorting), but since I am too worried about overdosing, I continue to just sniff it. The anxiety I got from worrying about ODing ruined part of the high, so it wasn't worth it. Now to answer your question instead of just preaching, :\

Most people say that they IV less than half their nasal dose, and considering that the nasal BA is 50-70% and the IV BA is 100%, that makes sense. The issues with that though are:
  1. IVing hits you all at once, so not only are you getting twice as much in terms of BA, you are getting it all at once.
  2. If you have not sniffed this batch to the point on knowing how much it takes to get you high, you can't in turn determine how much to IV.
 
Burn Out, you understand that your tolerance will ramp up pretty quickly with IV use, don't you? If you're chasing a rush you no longer get from snorting then sure IV will give you that at first, but because it hits hard all at once your brain will quickly make the necessary adjustments it needs so as to minimise the effects and moderate the intensity. Before long you'll be shooting just to stay straight and even with doses way above what you need to straighten out and feel normal you'll get very little reward from it. Trouble is once you're tolerant to IV other ROAs will feel like a waste of good gear as you're getting nothing from it, which makes it difficult to switch back from IV to snorting or smoking after a while.
 
^ +1
burn out, if you are absolutely set on IVing, would you be opposed to sniffing the remainder of your dose like you have done, thus letting your high last longer after the initial IV rush?

I agree with Sepher though, that the IV dose will only be lower than your nasal dose for a short amount of time before your tolerance increases to the point of you having to IV more than you would snort.

Your best bet is to space your usage out longer to try to keep your tolerance low. Nothing good is going to come from switching to the IV roa, other than the short rush that you feel. Since the IV dose wears off faster than that of a nasal dose, you will end up having to use more often to keep from getting sick. I have used with many people that have switched to IVing when we were taking the same dose, and all of these people now take higher IV doses than my nasal doses. I can't even tell you how many times I have heard people that IV say something along the lines of "I wish I could still get high off of sniffing my dope." I have been able to stay at a maximum daily dose of .2 since I space out my usage, while they have to take multiple IV doses of .4 throughout the day. I would recommend taking a step back from this and thinking about this decision. I would also like to mention that I have some experience with IVing dope a few times, so it's not like I don't have any experience with that ROA.
 
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