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  • Current Events & Politics Moderators: deficiT | tryptakid | Foreigner

Israel is under attack

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Palestinian isn't an ethnicity.
Islam isn't an ethnicity.
Every ethnicity that exists in Gaza exists in Israel.
even if i grant you that, it doesn't make it NOT ethnic cleansing.

i've requested before that you look up both 'ethnicity' (and read more than one definition) and ethnic cleansing...

your argument can easily be used to say that NO ethnicities exist. and it still wouldn't matter...

The real ethnic cleansing happens in Arab states against Jews.
and going by this, if jewish is an ethnicity, you just made my argument for me... gaza is being ethnically cleansed of everyone and anyone that isn't netanyahu's favorite persuasion...

it doesn't matter if ALL 'ethnicities' in the WORLD exist in gaza IN EQUAL PARTS!

ethnic cleansing is a process whereby people of any and potentially all ethnicities are forced out of an area for a NEW a collection of people specified by the ones doing the ethnic cleansing.

literally race and ethnicity are made up, so is the term 'ethnic cleansing' (and every other word, cause literally words are made up)... BUT IT MATTERS NOT, BECAUSE YOU STILL LOSE THE SEMANTICS BATTLE BECAUSE WHAT ISRAEL IS DOING COUNTS DEFINITIONALLY.

this is a battle against palestinians and not just hamas.... if they were simply going after hamas, you might have a point.

furthermore, if the point of israel is to make a jewish state (and since it is 3/4ths jewish), then ISRAEL AS A MODERN NATION IS A PROJECT OF ETHNIC CLEANSING!

they started out as a minority... and HAD TO DO ETHNIC CLEANSING TO MAKE IT MAJORITY JEWISH!
 
100% the russians are behind these protests. Using their commie sleeper agents to cause chaos in the west.

all these folk burning the american flag should be promptly arrested and charged with treason agaisnt the state and thrown in max security prision for the rest of their lives.
the Russians haven't been communist in 30 years

why would you consider burning a flag a reason to throw people in a literal gulag for the rest of their lives? Doesn't sound, very, uh, freedom & liberty of you there hoss

BL been giving a lot of boomer ass energy lately...

Meanwhile everybody's missing the point while companies like Boeing and Raytheon wine and dine each other over a mountain of corpses... Some things never change I guess.
 
Meanwhile everybody's missing the point while companies like Boeing and Raytheon wine and dine each other over a mountain of corpses... Some things never change I guess.
I would be in support of these protests if they were actually protesting Boeing, BAE, Raytheon, and all the legislators who are involved in this process. That is completely fair game, because that is the business as it were of America (or the UK). It is something we are involved in and something we have the power to change domestically.

But these protests, in the USA and UK (still every weekend in London), are not protesting our involvement. They are protesting from the vantage point of Palestine, as evidenced by the fact that within these protests there are people espousing and promoting actual terrorist bullshit, or anti-Semitic nonsense. It's nonsensical, because no country least of all Israel is going to give a fuck about what other nations say about its own policy decisions in regards to its survival. You're protesting thousands of miles away, in other countries that are not Israel.

You're not paying attention if you think allowing this Muslim contingent to put a wedge in the political door is a good idea, for the sake of your own countries survival. I don't agree with throwing them in jail, but the sentiment is on point. They will take advantage of this tolerance over time, as evidenced by what is happening to several countries in Europe including the UK.

The dopey left-wingers and young activists just do not grasp the fact that other people don't necessarily share the same values they do. Protest the weapons manufacturers, protest to keep our involvement out of these regions, but don't protest in favour of siding with people who will chuck you off a fucking roof the first chance they get. That is total idiocy.
 
I would be in support of these protests if they were actually protesting Boeing, BAE, Raytheon, and all the legislators who are involved in this process. That is completely fair game, because that is the business as it were of America (or the UK). It is something we are involved in and something we have the power to change domestically.

But these protests, in the USA and UK (still every weekend in London), are not protesting our involvement. They are protesting from the vantage point of Palestine, as evidenced by the fact that within these protests there are people espousing and promoting actual terrorist bullshit, or anti-Semitic nonsense. It's nonsensical, because no country least of all Israel is going to give a fuck about what other nations say about its own policy decisions in regards to its survival. You're protesting thousands of miles away, in other countries that are not Israel.

You're not paying attention if you think allowing this Muslim contingent to put a wedge in the political door is a good idea, for the sake of your own countries survival. I don't agree with throwing them in jail, but the sentiment is on point. They will take advantage of this tolerance over time, as evidenced by what is happening to several countries in Europe including the UK.

The dopey left-wingers and young activists just do not grasp the fact that other people don't necessarily share the same values they do. Protest the weapons manufacturers, protest to keep our involvement out of these regions, but don't protest in favour of siding with people who will chuck you off a fucking roof the first chance they get. That is total idiocy.
And how do you know what vantage point everyone is protesting from? Did you go to the protests? Or are you just reacting to some rage bait generated for social media consumption and by provocateurs? I mean you're a smart guy I'm sure you are familiar with psyops and cointelpro. Like seriously it's so easy to flip any switch for you guys to just dive right back into this same nonsensical culture war bullshit you espouse all day. They could be protesting war, tenants rights, workers rights, anything etc. and you would find some way to paint any legitimate protest as some left wing Boogeyman. In fact I haven't seen a single protest or demonstration that YOU aka YOU and every other nominally or actively right wing person hasn't gotten mad about in the last ten years. It's actually goofy at this point.

Sounds to me like y'all think everyone should just shut the fuck up, go home, stuff their faces like good American consumers, and not care about anything ever again while the world implodes around you. Y'all don't actually care about shit, it's hilarious how completely morally bankrupt and checked out y'all are. And then you call the thousands of people that legitimately care about innocents dying, that are exercising their constitutional rights by demonstrating, NPCs. Protests aren't convenient. Neither is war. Oh lawdy, you can't make this shit up.
 
Now tell me which logical fallacy I broke so you can all continue to reiterate the same point for 200 more pages and dance around morality with semantics
 
Caring more about some funky ass college kids protesting and taking up space on a campus than the thousands of men women and children getting bombed to death is wild

No one did more to take the focus off Palestine than those funky ass college kids.
They wanted to make it about themselves, as always.
Larping as revolutionaries at their Ivy League universities.

Why not just stage a mass drop out from these institutions? Stop giving them money yourself if you feel so strongly about it. I mean think about it. They say they're funding genocide, so what are you doing by paying them tuition? Bit hypocritical no?

Do something that'll actually make an immediate difference. Blocking roads, you're just stopping working class people from feeding their kids. Stopping people from getting to the hospital. And alienating people from your cause.

And how do you know what vantage point everyone is protesting from? Did you go to the protests? Or are you just reacting to some rage bait generated for social media consumption and by provocateurs? I mean you're a smart guy I'm sure you are familiar with psyops and cointelpro. Like seriously it's so easy to flip any switch for you guys to just dive right back into this same nonsensical culture war bullshit you espouse all day. They could be protesting war, tenants rights, workers rights, anything etc. and you would find some way to paint any legitimate protest as some left wing Boogeyman. In fact I haven't seen a single protest or demonstration that YOU aka YOU and every other nominally or actively right wing person hasn't gotten mad about in the last ten years. It's actually goofy at this point.

Sounds to me like y'all think everyone should just shut the fuck up, go home, stuff their faces like good American consumers, and not care about anything ever again while the world implodes around you. Y'all don't actually care about shit, it's hilarious how completely morally bankrupt and checked out y'all are. And then you call the thousands of people that legitimately care about innocents dying, that are exercising their constitutional rights by demonstrating, NPCs. Protests aren't convenient. Neither is war. Oh lawdy, you can't make this shit up.

I think a lot of the protestors have good intentions. Honestly, I do.
I think they see people dying and want it to stop, which is admirable.
I have no problem with it whatsoever until they start destroying property and blocking other students from freely moving around their campus.

It's that simple.
 
And how do you know what vantage point everyone is protesting from? Did you go to the protests? Or are you just reacting to some rage bait generated for social media consumption and by provocateurs? I mean you're a smart guy I'm sure you are familiar with psyops and cointelpro. Like seriously it's so easy to flip any switch for you guys to just dive right back into this same nonsensical culture war bullshit you espouse all day. They could be protesting war, tenants rights, workers rights, anything etc. and you would find some way to paint any legitimate protest as some left wing Boogeyman. In fact I haven't seen a single protest or demonstration that YOU aka YOU and every other nominally or actively right wing person hasn't gotten mad about in the last ten years. It's actually goofy at this point.
Underlined: You accuse me of making an assumption about these people, and then go right to making one yourself about who I am and what I think. That's not in good faith really is it. I don't see myself as right wing, or left actually. It's all phoney categorization to help create an ineffectual Punch and Judy show. The second underlined part is just not true either - and you want to talk psy-ops.. let's talk about why the anti-covid policy protests of 2020 were cracked down with actual police brutality, as in actually cracking skulls and setting dogs on protestors (see European protests photos) but then followed immediately by softly-softly policing for the Floyd bullshit and BLM literally the next week!

There's brutality going on all over the world, and I don't remember seeing any of these people complaining about that. Particularly when it was Islamic fundamentalists engaging in genocide, even against other Muslims. But a bunch of Palestinian fanatics kill, butcher, and rape, 1000+ Israeli's, which is itself an act of genocide, and all of a sudden there's tears when Israel then decides to not tolerate 'fuck about and find out'? Get the fuck out with that bullshit.

Like you want to talk about 'flipping a switch'. There is no greater switch flipper than Israel/Palestine. It makes complete mugs out of so many Western people who think they have to side with Palestine because Israel represents the colonial aspirations of their own state patriarchy or something, so by default they have to pick the opposing side, regardless of the flaws of that other side. Especially in the younger demographic, who simply don't understand the complexity of the history or context. I know, because I once thought the same way they do at that age.

Also, you don't need psyops and cointelpro to explain the protests in the UK, rather a completely lax immigration policy over several decades that has allowed a hostile Islamic contingent to accumulate momentum, who are truly more self-interested and self-serving than they pretend not to be. Utilizing Palestine as a wedge to legitimize their assertions over our tolerant culture. It's transparent as fuck.

Be real. The majority of these people protesting do not give a flying fuck about the hostages or the savagery that initiated the Israeli response. Behind closed doors, and sometimes openly, many of the Muslim contingent will freely admit things on a scale that range from abhorrent all the way to celebrating designated terrorist groups.

Again, if the young white liberal protestors were expressly targeting the American aspects of this context, such as the weapon manufacturers, then I would be fully in support. Even if I didn't agree with their position (in this case I would, because I don't believe the world needs more weaponry). But the protests in the UK and USA are not coordinated in that vain, they are not expressed in that vain. It's 'Free Palestine'.. not ' Make Peace'. What do you think 'free Palestine' actually means to these people..
 
No one did more to take the focus off Palestine than those funky ass college kids.
They wanted to make it about themselves, as always.
Larping as revolutionaries at their Ivy League universities.

Why not just stage a mass drop out from these institutions? Stop giving them money yourself if you feel so strongly about it. I mean think about it. They say they're funding genocide, so what are you doing by paying them tuition? Bit hypocritical no?

Do something that'll actually make an immediate difference. Blocking roads, you're just stopping working class people from feeding their kids. Stopping people from getting to the hospital. And alienating people from your cause.



I think a lot of the protestors have good intentions. Honestly, I do.
I think they see people dying and want it to stop, which is admirable.
I have no problem with it whatsoever until they start destroying property and blocking other students from freely moving around their campus.

It's that simple.
But you do understand that just dropping out of something you've probably already invested time, money and effort in might be a problem? And that it'd be difficult to get everyone to just drop out of their education at the same time right? Just forget about whatever future plans they have? Half of them are probably a semester away from graduating or something so they'd be dropping out and uprooting their whole lives. Ivy League schools are the most prestigious schools in the country. You're just gonna nix a bachelor's or masters from an ivy League, and convince the rest of the student body to also give up on their degrees and see what credits will transfer? Wouldn't staying at the school and making noise be more effective?

Sure, in my eyes that would be a much more logically sound way to do it I agree, so that the schools no longer get funding. But the government is largely funding these schools through loans. The schools have basically become banks to launder government money moreso than education centers, and the student loans have only become more predatory and extortionate the more the economy spirals. Imo at this point this is more than about the war. When the places that are intended to educate our next generations have become such extreme cash vultures, there's big problems. Young people in this country have a ton of reasons to be concerned with their future here and reason to protest. All of us have had a pile of reasons to be getting pissed off for years. If this was France we would've stayed in a general strike since Occupy I'm deadass serious. But America doesn't want to stand up, half of us just want to pick apart any attempt at any kind of social movement from the comfy ass sidelines and feed into media narratives from the keyboard, WHILE blaming the people that are actually making moves of being brainwashed by media. I mean it's unreal the hypocrisy I'm seeing. We'd rather just use our words online and bitch than become politically active in any way, because it's way easier to Monday Morning QB than be involved in any real social movement.

Everyone else is clueless sheep. "Bahhhh". Yeah ok.

This isn't really what's being reported on, as it doesn't fit the current media narrative and further enflame this "America/Jew hating college kids" angle, but it IS what I've been hearing people that are involved say.

Also, you have to recognize that a small fraction of any of these people protesting are actively destroying property and being violent and whatever other bullshit we're seeing. And out of that small percentage, there are absolutely alphabet soup spooky saboteurs doing this shit. The American government has literally a massive long ass list of influencing narratives and media direction by infiltrating social movements on the left. Why would you think anything has changed now in 2024? It's another war. It's a bunch of "crazy America hating radicals". Of course the people that profit off this worldwide destruction are influencing this. Like usual, a ton of people falling for it and a ton of neoliberal stooges are eating cake right now.

Folks gotta use their fucking brains and crack a history book once or twice. Fuck wikipedia will even work. Damn.
 
Underlined: You accuse me of making an assumption about these people, and then go right to making one yourself about who I am and what I think. That's not in good faith really is it. I don't see myself as right wing, or left actually. It's all phoney categorization to help create an ineffectual Punch and Judy show. The second underlined part is just not true either - and you want to talk psy-ops.. let's talk about why the anti-covid policy protests of 2020 were cracked down with actual police brutality, as in actually cracking skulls and setting dogs on protestors (see European protests photos) but then followed immediately by softly-softly policing for the Floyd bullshit and BLM literally the next week!

There's brutality going on all over the world, and I don't remember seeing any of these people complaining about that. Particularly when it was Islamic fundamentalists engaging in genocide, even against other Muslims. But a bunch of Palestinian fanatics kill, butcher, and rape, 1000+ Israeli's, which is itself an act of genocide, and all of a sudden there's tears when Israel then decides to not tolerate 'fuck about and find out'? Get the fuck out with that bullshit.

Like you want to talk about 'flipping a switch'. There is no greater switch flipper than Israel/Palestine. It makes complete mugs out of so many Western people who think they have to side with Palestine because Israel represents the colonial aspirations of their own state patriarchy or something, so by default they have to pick the opposing side, regardless of the flaws of that other side. Especially in the younger demographic, who simply don't understand the complexity of the history or context. I know, because I once thought the same way they do at that age.

Also, you don't need psyops and cointelpro to explain the protests in the UK, rather a completely lax immigration policy over several decades that has allowed a hostile Islamic contingent to accumulate momentum, who are truly more self-interested and self-serving than they pretend not to be. Utilizing Palestine as a wedge to legitimize their assertions over our tolerant culture. It's transparent as fuck.

Be real. The majority of these people protesting do not give a flying fuck about the hostages or the savagery that initiated the Israeli response. Behind closed doors, and sometimes openly, many of the Muslim contingent will freely admit things on a scale that range from abhorrent all the way to celebrating designated terrorist groups.

Again, if the young white liberal protestors were expressly targeting the American aspects of this context, such as the weapon manufacturers, then I would be fully in support. Even if I didn't agree with their position (in this case I would, because I don't believe the world needs more weaponry). But the protests in the UK and USA are not coordinated in that vain, they are not expressed in that vain. It's 'Free Palestine'.. not ' Make Peace'. What do you think 'free Palestine' actually means to these people..
Dude I'm not making assumptions, I've watched you post for a long time I know your opinions. Whether you consider yourself left or right wing, doesn't really matter if your opinions are all conservative talking points that come from the same angle.

But sure, it really doesn't matter how anyone identifies politically.

Ok so what would have made you happy? To see more police brutality in 2020? I don't see your point. I expressed that it's good for people to give a fuck and actually demonstrate and participate in political action, and you tell me the government did something fucked up. Sure, I know that. It's the fucking government, that's what they do, fucked up things. Do you think I myself personally agree with police brutality against covid policy protestors?????And would you even be talking about police brutality if it wasn't an anti covid policy protest? We can only speculate, we'll let that marinate.

And again, you are perceiving everyone as failing to understand the implications of Hamas violence last year. Dude these people are protesting for the mountains of bodies as a direct result, mostly from Israel, from the conflict, and the decades of colonialism. There is a ton of shit to unpack here, but you keep just calling for WAR! WAR! Israel has been justified in slaughtering thousands over an attack and a hostage situation! Starving a whole region is justified! F@FO ya ya oo rah bro!

This is far from a nuanced understanding of the matter, it's pretty classic chickenhawk bullshit actually.
 
My problem is that multiple world governments are manipulating this bullshit, and a fuck lot of innocent civilians in the middle. In Palestine, people are being blown to pieces and starved because of decisions their effective government, and Israels government have made, while being fed ammunition by US government. And in America, tons of people are recognizing this and protesting the actions that all of these governments have made.

And instead of siding with any of the actual civilians and recognizing the dynamic here, people are cheering on Israels government without really giving af about ALL LLL of these people caught in the crossfire of their decisions.

When a war comes here, who's team y'all gonna bat for? Who you thinks gonna help you out in a pinch? The US gov? Israeli gov? Or your neighbor?

It is that simple man.
 
1960s -> left embraces non-violent protests for racial equality and to exit Vietnam
1990s -> left embraces non-violent protests for gay rights and to save the trees
2020s -> left embraces hyper-violent far right antisemitic jihadist culture to defend people living 6000 miles who would lynch them for being gay if they ever met
 
But you do understand that just dropping out of something you've probably already invested time, money and effort in might be a problem? And that it'd be difficult to get everyone to just drop out of their education at the same time right? Just forget about whatever future plans they have? Half of them are probably a semester away from graduating or something so they'd be dropping out and uprooting their whole lives. Ivy League schools are the most prestigious schools in the country. You're just gonna nix a bachelor's or masters from an ivy League, and convince the rest of the student body to also give up on their degrees and see what credits will transfer? Wouldn't staying at the school and making noise be more effective?

If I actually believed that the university I was attending was literally funding genocide then yes, of course I would stop giving them my money. And I would not want to have a piece of paper from them either. You're going to accept a degree from an institution you believe is financing war crimes and mass murder? It doesn't make sense. These people claim to be so ideologically pure but then they accept their degrees soaked in the blood of Palestinian children?

We'd rather just use our words online and bitch than become politically active in any way, because it's way easier to Monday Morning QB than be involved in any real social movement.

Well, I mean this is an online forum and we're in the politics section. So I think it's fair for us to use our words to bitch here. Right?

Also, you have to recognize that a small fraction of any of these people protesting are actively destroying property and being violent and whatever other bullshit we're seeing.

Absolutely. As I said, I think most of the protesters mean well and are just exercising their first amendment rights. But as always, it ends up getting out of hand.
 
My problem is that multiple world governments are manipulating this bullshit, and a fuck lot of innocent civilians in the middle. In Palestine, people are being blown to pieces and starved because of decisions their effective government, and Israels government have made, while being fed ammunition by US government. And in America, tons of people are recognizing this and protesting the actions that all of these governments have made.

And instead of siding with any of the actual civilians and recognizing the dynamic here, people are cheering on Israels government without really giving af about ALL LLL of these people caught in the crossfire of their decisions.

When a war comes here, who's team y'all gonna bat for? Who you thinks gonna help you out in a pinch? The US gov? Israeli gov? Or your neighbor?

It is that simple man.

Well as a homosexual I'd feel safer in the United States or Israel than in Gaza. If my neighbor is trying to convince me that Hamas are freedom/resistance fighters or something like that, I'm probably going to tell them to go fuck themselves. I think the US has progressed a lot and is a great place to live, all things considered. Sure there are massive problems but why do you think everyone wants to come here? Because we live in a progressive democracy that is pretty much secular. In general those are the values I want to promote.
 
Dude I'm not making assumptions, I've watched you post for a long time I know your opinions. Whether you consider yourself left or right wing, doesn't really matter if your opinions are all conservative talking points that come from the same angle.
Can we not do this please. Don't try and shoehorn my stance into a this or that political ideology, I don't give a fuck about conservative (or liberal) talking points. And more broadly, this picking of sides, it's not necessary; I actually agree with some of the sentiments you're expressing regarding state power.

Let's not pretend that the power in the Islamic world is not just as full of shit as ol'whitey in the West though. We can dissect what's going on without having to let emotions completely drowning out the nuance, and blinding us to the fact that within these protests there are many people who we have a right to be deeply suspicious/concerned about.
And would you even be talking about police brutality if it wasn't an anti covid policy protest? We can only speculate, we'll let that marinate.
I can only speak for my country, but over the past ten years the only protests I can think of where police have been brutal in their enforcement against actual legitimately peaceful protesting were the anti-covid ones. We have a very clear case of political policing in this country.

Nothing comparable happened with the BLM protests where there was violent tendencies from the protestors. We see virtually no response against the Stop Oil protestors who block up roads, or those trying to stop legitimate deportations, but then we'll see police mobilize against anyone interfering with those groups.

We've had continuous large scale protests in London about the Gaza situation for months now. People chanting things and waving flags that should see them arrested, but the police do absolutely nothing. Being completely transparent, it fucks me off that this is tolerated when so many of these people despise this country and people like me. Yet people like me get the baton on the head when we stand up to protest government policy (covid), for example.

Who do I blame? Both the police/state machinery, and the protestors. The protestors of late are just helping play into the states narratives, regarding protest in and of itself, while also personally benefitting from it (underhanded self-serving Islamic motivations). Which makes it harder for people like me who, down the line, might have to protest against the state on something that matters here, in this country - the anti-covid protests were overwhelming white British, people who earn and pay taxes, not unlike a sizeable portion of the Muslim community who are utter sponges off the state so no surprises we saw none of them protesting with us.
 
1960s -> left embraces non-violent protests for racial equality and to exit Vietnam
1990s -> left embraces non-violent protests for gay rights and to save the trees
2020s -> left embraces hyper-violent far right antisemitic jihadist culture to defend people living 6000 miles who would lynch them for being gay if they ever met


exactly
 
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