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Israel is under attack

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Antares said:
You really don't understand why people aren't interested in watching an Al Jazeera video about the Israel-Palestine conflict? You wouldn't trust The Times of Israel to be reporting on it in an unbiased fashion, would you?
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Just watch it and tell me where they are wrong?

Is this so hard for any of you pro-Israeli's to do? Surely you have stacks of evidence to suggest it's all lies?

Anything?

Just one bit?
 
montel said:
Just watch it and tell me where they are wrong?

Is this so hard for any of you pro-Israeli's to do? Surely you have stacks of evidence to suggest it's all lies?

Anything?

Just one bit?
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1. I'm not watching a ten minute video about something I never cared about enough to read any news sources about.
2. As I admitted in 1, I don't know anything about any of these tiny little details. I don't care. The only facts that matter is that there was an attack by Hamas and some Israeli people died.
3. I'm probably the only person who's posted in this thread that actually believes Israel should not exist (intentional ethnostates should never exist). You're probably offending an awful lot of actual pro-Israel people by lumping me in with them.
4. Here's a wikipedia article you can spend a ton of your free time reading just to personally satisfy me so I can feel validated in all of my opinions. Prove every single claim that has a source wrong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Ja...ons_of_antisemitism_and_anti-Israel_sentiment
 
Stop being anti-semitic, Iran hAs A RiGhT tO dEfEnD iTsELf!!!!11!1!!
Shame on you postmodern neo-Marxist anti-Semitic leftist bigots!!!!1!
 
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The dead Iranians were all military.

The people targeted on Oct 7 were civilian.

Also, Iran has been funding the terrorist groups attacking Israel for decades.
 
mal3volent said:
The dead Iranians were all military.

The people targeted on Oct 7 were civilian.

Also, Iran has been funding the terrorist groups attacking Israel for decades.
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Yes, and countries generally have the right to defend themselves from military attacks - correct?

The people killed in Pearl Harbour were all military.
It’s still a declaration of war.
 
Antares said:
1. I'm not watching a ten minute video about something I never cared about enough to read any news sources about.
2. As I admitted in 1, I don't know anything about any of these tiny little details. I don't care. The only facts that matter is that there was an attack by Hamas and some Israeli people died.
3. I'm probably the only person who's posted in this thread that actually believes Israel should not exist (intentional ethnostates should never exist). You're probably offending an awful lot of actual pro-Israel people by lumping me in with them.
4. Here's a wikipedia article you can spend a ton of your free time reading just to personally satisfy me so I can feel validated in all of my opinions. Prove every single claim that has a source wrong: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Ja...ons_of_antisemitism_and_anti-Israel_sentiment
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On point 3 - It was deemed right from the start that the Israel idea was a mistake - that what we are seeing now (and have been seeing for the last 100 odd years) was inevitable - and that this would be the tragic outcome.

The problem now is that Israel exists and there are millions of people living there - so they can't just pack up their bags and move along. I can't see a future where Israel isn't right there where it is now.

The Israelis and Palestinians will have to co-exist in peace at some point. The problem is the bloodthirsty rulers on either side who are hellbent on destroying each other - and the equally bloodthirsty governments who arm and encourage the fighting.

What is tragic is that no other nations have stepped in to stop the fighting and create peace. No, it seems that we in the west are more concerned with power and political sabre-rattling in the Middle East than an actual end to the hostilities.

The only beneficiaries here are the politicians who need the war to keep going - and the arms manufacturers/governments providing the artillery. The rest, that is the soldiers on the ground, the militants, the hostages, the innocent civilians, the objectors are all 'collateral damage' - and this is how it's being presented via most of the media.
 
montel said:
No sweeping statements, please - just pick apart the facts and tell us where they are wrong. I mean specifically wrong about any of the descriptions of the specific incidents.
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OK, so I sat through that.

0. Runs off the back of the 'Israeli's were slow to respond, we (Hamas) clearly put our training videos online so they knew about our plans, therefore it is Israel's fault they didn't stop us from killing everyone'.

1. First seconds; Al-Jazeera. Funded and based in Qatar, who are one of the main backers of Hamas. So right off the bat we have a conflict of interest, to say the least.
2. 1:48 "The Israeli's were then extraordinarily slow to response.." - nice bit of unrelated visual footage to reinforce an accusation.
3. Israeli's killed by friendly-fire (helicopter); plausible, but no actual evidence provided.
4. Goes on to insinuate Israeli tank opened fire on Israeli kibbutz; plausible, but no actual evidence provided, and riding off point 3.

5. 4.30; babies death claim; This has been talked about already in this thread. It's roots go back to some police/military man on the ground if I remember correctly, who spoke to the press and who in turn misrepresented what he stated without verifying anything. The press then regurgitated it all over the place. The same thing happened with the hospital story in Gaza where Hamas tried to claim 500 people were killed by a rocket (of theirs) landing in the car park. The press itself is at fault here, not Israel (or Hamas, despite intentionally lying in that case). A CNN reporter also had to retract and apologize after falsely claiming the Israeli government confirmed it happened when it didn't.

6. 5:00; denial of widespread sexual assaults; ".. there's not the visual evidence, not the photographic evidence, the witness evidence". This is just ridiculous. Even the Guardian Newspaper says the opposite. I can't remember her name, but there was a female solider with bloodied pants shoved into the back of a jeep, which to my mind is visual evidence. The fact that he then goes on to try and spin this whole thing around by talking about Zaka's founder being accused of sexual abuse.. lmao.. even if this were true, and I'm not claiming it isn't, I can actually picture the Qatari's writing the script for this bit. It's so intellectually weak, it's like a teenager wrote the script for this.

7: 11:04 "particularly given the track record of the IDF/Gov which has been shown to less than truthful of the accounts it gives" - while simultaneously flashing up a clip from the IDF briefing explaining the Gaza hospital incident (radar image of missile trajectories). Implying that story is false, when in actuality we know Hamas lied about the death toll (and trying to blame Israel for the explosion, when it was their own rocket misfiring) and the media subsequently parroted the lies (no mention here about the media failing in its duty, again). So far in the video this to me is the clearest piece of blatant propaganda.

8. 13:00 - We're now waffling into Labour and Zionism. Nothing to do with October 7th. Attempting to pull on other emotional strands in the viewers mind.

x. His overall body language and eye movements don't exactly convey sincerity in my mind, like he knows he is deliberately trying to massage the narrative in a particular direction and not really attempting to discern the actual truth.

---

Conclusion: Not impressed.
 
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-=SS=- said:
OK, so I sat through that.

0. Runs off the back of the 'Israeli's were slow to respond, we (Hamas) clearly put our training videos online so they knew about our plans, therefore it is Israel's fault they didn't stop us from killing everyone'.

1. First seconds; Al-Jazeera. Funded and based in Qatar, who are one of the main backers of Hamas. So right off the bat we have a conflict of interest, to say the least.
2. 1:48 "The Israeli's were then extraordinarily slow to response.." - nice bit of unrelated visual footage to reinforce an accusation.
3. Israeli's killed by friendly-fire (helicopter); plausible, but no actual evidence provided.
4. Goes on to insinuate Israeli tank opened fire on Israeli kibbutz; plausible, but no actual evidence provided, and riding off point 3.

5. 4.30; babies death claim; This has been talked about already in this thread. It's roots go back to some police/military man on the ground if I remember correctly, who spoke to the press and who in turn misrepresented what he stated without verifying anything. The press then regurgitated it all over the place. The same thing happened with the hospital story in Gaza where Hamas tried to claim 500 people were killed by a rocket (of theirs) landing in the car park. The press itself is at fault here, not Israel (or Hamas, despite intentionally lying in that case). A CNN reporter also had to retract and apologize after falsely claiming the Israeli government confirmed it happened when it didn't.

6. 5:00; denial of widespread sexual assaults; ".. there's not the visual evidence, not the photographic evidence, the witness evidence". This is just ridiculous. Even the Guardian Newspaper says the opposite. I can't remember her name, but there was a female solider with bloodied pants shoved into the back of a jeep, which to my mind is visual evidence. The fact that he then goes on to try and spin this whole thing around by talking about Zaka's founder being accused of sexual abuse.. lmao.. even if this were true, and I'm not claiming it isn't, I can actually picture the Qatari's writing the script for this bit. It's so intellectually weak, it's like a teenager wrote the script for this.

7: 11:04 "particularly given the track record of the IDF/Gov which has been shown to less than truthful of the accounts it gives" - while simultaneously flashing up a clip from the IDF briefing explaining the Gaza hospital incident (radar image of missile trajectories). Implying that story is false, when in actuality we know Hamas lied about the death toll and the media subsequently parroted the lies (no mention here about the media failing in its duty, again). So far in the video this to me is the clearest piece of blatant propaganda.

8. 13:00 - We're now waffling into Labour and Zionism. Nothing to do with October 7th. Attempting to pull on other emotional strands in the viewers mind.

x. His overall body language and eye movements don't exactly convey sincerity in my mind, like he knows he is deliberately trying to massage the narrative in a particular direction and not really attempting to discern the actual truth.

---

Conclusion: Not impressed.
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they produce little bullshit propaganda pieces like this as all the time. Thanks for taking one for the team. ;)
 
montel said:
The sane thing would have been to send in a peace keeping army to stop the war.
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montel said:
What is tragic is that no other nations have stepped in to stop the fighting and create peace.
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you don't go into detail about what it would really look like, but with these ramifications, good luck with not just escalating the situation.
 
I'm pretty sure we've done the "peacekeeping army in the middle east" thing before. What's weird is that a bunch of our soldiers died when we did.

This is why I think we should have gone after the actual leadership. Not with ~negotiation~ attempts, but with threats and financial pain. That has its own issues, but I'd rather roll the dice with that than what we have tried and have been trying, which is clearly a horrible failure.
 
If you type "marg bar" into google translate and select Persian it translates to "down with" not "death to" which that guy does state in the video. I love how people twist things to suit their own narratives

www.mypersiancorner.com

Death to America Explained & Other Persian Phrases Related to Death - My Persian Corner

Discover why Iranians chant 'death to America' and learn common Persian phrases related to death in this cultural explainer.
www.mypersiancorner.com www.mypersiancorner.com
 
someguyontheinternet said:
If you type "marg bar" into google translate and select Persian it translates to "down with" not "death to" which that guy does state in the video. I love how people twist things to suit their own narratives
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he literally says it has two meanings, then they all cheer after he explains the two meanings
 
Well, this doesn't sound good.. sounds like a tit-for-tat escalation scenario, given Iran has already said they will respond if attacked. Hopefully Israel will take the Mossad route and just pop off some key individuals, or covertly attack facilities, at some later date once things have cooled off and plausible deniability can be used.

ps Keep your nose out Sunak, I have no intention of dying in a sandy dune for this collection of religious buttholes

 
-=SS=- said:
Well, this doesn't sound good.. sounds like a tit-for-tat escalation scenario, given Iran has already said they will respond if attacked. Hopefully Israel will take the Mossad route and just pop off some key individuals, or covertly attack facilities, at some later date once things have cooled off and plausible deniability can be used.

ps Keep your nose out Sunak, I have no intention of dying in a sandy dune for this collection of religious buttholes

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Rishi needs to be locked in his indoor pool whilst this is all happening
 
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