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Israel is under attack

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(I've deleted several off topic posts)

@JGrimez

This is exactly where I knew you wanted to take the discussion. I've asked you many times to stop fixating on conspiracy bullshit and take it to the dive. This thread is for discussion of the current conflict. Not Jewish power structures , or Epstein, the Jewish media, or organ trafficking, Holocaust denial, etc etc...

I apologize for my part in engaging with you at all about these things as they're off topic. There is a an entire forum for you to play, so please go there if you want to continue.

I'm not going to waste any more time on this either. Please read up on the forum guidelines and potential consequences if you choose to continue.
 
I'm definitely also done - and, as sick and depressing as all this is, it has been cathartic (for me at least) discussing this here.

I think the real problem so many people have is the fact that, once again, we can all sit here debate two different sides till the cows come home - but ultimately, we are still powerless to do anything except watch people die.

There are no saints on either side - and this is clearly going to get a hell of a lot worse before we can ever contemplate it ever getting any better.

Let's just hope the killing stops soon.

Even if I never agreed with you - thanks to all those who engaged in this long too-and-fro for the last week.
 
Yeah it's actually crazy how much bigotry and racism I've been seeing here.
Islam isn't a race. Why should it be free from criticism?

Westerners just see Islam as poor brown people of colour when its actually just another totalitarian dogma that justifies violence and leads to truly stultified lives no matter the race of the adherent. It's a violent religion in Chechnya and it's a violent religion in Sudan. It's violent in France where drawing a cartoon can get you beheaded. It's a barbaric religion that the world would absolutely be better without. Name an Islamic country that you wouldn't do anything to get the fuck out of. Just as so many of their citizens do.

Tbc, it's not the people or their race or skin colour or anything unchosen by them. Its the beliefs they hold on to willingly and pass onto their children that intellectually impoverish Islamic nations, force women to wear bags, and react with violence to non believers and even just slightly different believers alike. The religion of peace that is able to justify enslaving girls and beheading people by pointing to the life, words, and actions of literal founder of the entire thing. If that can't be criticised, what can be?

Your crocodile tears are just ridiculous btw. You've been shitting on marginalised people for years on Bluelight. You only care about this because of your bizarre fixation with the Jews.
 
The religion of Islam is not "brown" but consists of people who belong to many races including white people. Grimey's concept of Islam being a singular race is of his own doing and supportive of a mindset that fosters hate due to difference.
Who are you and what are you talking about? Nobody has asked me my stance on Islam.
Swilow randomly said "Westerners just see Islam as poor brown people of colour".
The sense that I get from the two of you is that you're projecting internalized bigotry.

Islam isn't a race. Why should it be free from criticism?

Westerners just see Islam as poor brown people of colour when its actually just another totalitarian dogma that justifies violence
The world is a naturally violent place and almost everyone would agree that there are instances where violence is justified.
Science and the law justifies violence. You're justifying violence based on Judaism, a religious ideology.
Muslims are forbidden from murdering innocent people.

and leads to truly stultified lives no matter the race of the adherent. It's a violent religion in Chechnya and it's a violent religion in Sudan. It's violent in France where drawing a cartoon can get you beheaded. It's a barbaric religion that the world would absolutely be better without. Name an Islamic country that you wouldn't do anything to get the fuck out of. Just as so many of their citizens do.
So now I know you're just speaking from ignorance and bigotry.
Throughout my life I've met many Muslims and you're choosing to focus on a few of the most radical extremist psychopaths that don't even follow the tenets of Islam. There are almost 2 billion Muslims in the world majority in 50 countries. I talk to people from many of these countries, men and women, and they for the most part overall like their countries. When I ask them about the West they're often shocked about what is going on there. You might think the women are oppressed but they're actually highly respected and they respect themselves. I have many western friends who live and work in Dubai and some have even done stints in Saudi. A society like that is so fucking safe, you have no idea. Because the punishments are so severe for crime. Obviously they have major problems like forcing the head coverings on women in Iran and their mistreatment of homosexuals. To blame billions of people for the actions of some governments is ridiculous though. Muslims can be some of the nicest and most hospitable people you'll ever meet.

Tbc, it's not the people or their race or skin colour or anything unchosen by them. Its the beliefs they hold on to willingly and pass onto their children that intellectually impoverish Islamic nations, force women to wear bags, and react with violence to non believers and even just slightly different believers alike. The religion of peace that is able to justify enslaving girls and beheading people by pointing to the life, words, and actions of literal founder of the entire thing. If that can't be criticised, what can be?
I am not defending the violent biblical scriptures. The issue here is that you can find much worse in Judaism and the oral law especially. Both of these groups are guilty of what you are claiming so are you going to be fair and balance or bigoted against Islam?

Your crocodile tears are just ridiculous btw. You've been shitting on marginalised people for years on Bluelight.
Can you give any examples of this?

You only care about this because you're Jewish, have family in Israel, friends from Palestine and don't want to see slaughter of Arabs OR a global backlash against Israel
^

Let's just hope the killing stops soon.
Israel think they can kill their way out of this. In the past you could have a war and then details would come out later and be obfuscated. A lot of what's happening now people are seeing instantly so things are different. I truly hope for the best.
 
(I've deleted several off topic posts)

@JGrimez

This is exactly where I knew you wanted to take the discussion. I've asked you many times to stop fixating on conspiracy bullshit and take it to the dive. This thread is for discussion of the current conflict. Not Jewish power structures , or Epstein, the Jewish media, or organ trafficking, Holocaust denial, etc etc...

I apologize for my part in engaging with you at all about these things as they're off topic. There is a an entire forum for you to play, so please go there if you want to continue.

I'm not going to waste any more time on this either. Please read up on the forum guidelines and potential consequences if you choose to continue.
I will stop with that stuff because I understand why it cannot be spoken about.
I understand the reason why the subject strikes fear into anyone who trusts a western government.
There's a reason why it gets shut down even though it IS very relevant to the discussion - it's the track record and set precedents for a country that is now committing war crimes on a sickening scale.

It's the only topic that we cannot discuss and I'd invite you all to inquire as to why.
 
Islam isn't a race. Why should it be free from criticism?

Westerners just see Islam as poor brown people of colour when its actually just another totalitarian dogma that justifies violence and leads to truly stultified lives no matter the race of the adherent. It's a violent religion in Chechnya and it's a violent religion in Sudan. It's violent in France where drawing a cartoon can get you beheaded. It's a barbaric religion that the world would absolutely be better without. Name an Islamic country that you wouldn't do anything to get the fuck out of. Just as so many of their citizens do.

Tbc, it's not the people or their race or skin colour or anything unchosen by them. Its the beliefs they hold on to willingly and pass onto their children that intellectually impoverish Islamic nations, force women to wear bags, and react with violence to non believers and even just slightly different believers alike. The religion of peace that is able to justify enslaving girls and beheading people by pointing to the life, words, and actions of literal founder of the entire thing. If that can't be criticised, what can be?

Your crocodile tears are just ridiculous btw. You've been shitting on marginalised people for years on Bluelight. You only care about this because of your bizarre fixation with the Jews.

Good synopsis.

I don't think the other major monotheistic religion at play here has any place in the modern world either.
 
I will stop with that stuff because I understand why it cannot be spoken about.
I understand the reason why the subject strikes fear into anyone who trusts a western government.
There's a reason why it gets shut down even though it IS very relevant to the discussion - it's the track record and set precedents for a country that is now committing war crimes on a sickening scale.

It's the only topic that we cannot discuss and I'd invite you all to inquire as to why.

No one buys your persecution complex anymore man. I explicitly told you to take it to the dive. That is not censorship, it is a request to follow basic forum guidelines.
 
Throughout my life I've met many Muslims and you're choosing to focus on a few of the most radical extremist psychopaths that don't even follow the tenets of Islam.

There have been 50,000 plus documented instances of jihadist terrorism in the last 100 years. It surely is a minority but that's a whole lot more terrorism than any other religion is doing.

Jihadists are not psychopaths. Someone like Osama bin Laden was perfectly sane and rational. They are religious zealots who truly believe they are doing the bidding of the creator of the Universe. Jihadists are very clear in explaining why they do what they do, and it's not mental illness or anything prosaic like that. They will quite clearly point to the Quran and the hadith and explain that the founder of their religion, who communicated directly with God, tells them to do this. It doesn't even require deft interpretation of arcane scripture. It's right there.

You might think the women are oppressed but they're actually highly respected and they respect themselves

Ah yes, Afghanistan, a true beacon of freedom for women.

I'm sure the women who get stoned to death by their own families after being raped feel respected.

To blame billions of people for the actions of some governments is ridiculous though.

I'm not blaming people or their governments. I'm blaming their belief system. Unlike race, eye colour, height, beliefs can be changed and so beliefs are fair game for criticism. But it should be noted that Islam is one of the very few belief systems that currently justifies murdering "critics" like people who write fiction or draw cartoons. That says it all, imo.

Muslims can be some of the nicest and most hospitable people you'll ever meet.

This is a red herring. Of course they can be. They can also be dogmatic, vicious murderers and if you can't tell, it's those ones I'm talking about.
 
It's the only topic that we cannot discuss and I'd invite you all to inquire as to why.
It's not because there is a hidden Jewish power structure that you can't talk about it. It's because people don't feel there is any weight to it and resent having it shoved in their faces, especially in light of the extensive history regarding persecution of Jewish people. You're misreading the situation and your relationship to it.
 
GA6bbX3X0AAySH6


PDF link to the poll is at the beginning of this article from yesterday

 
GA6bbX3X0AAySH6


PDF link to the poll is at the beginning of this article from yesterday


I read this but was too depressed to post it.

It's nice seeing all of my hypotheses validated , but at the same time I worry very much about the future. The things they gravitate to ideologically are pretty shocking. The same ones who think misgendering is hate speech are likely the Holocaust deniers (and they don't see the irony). They've forced "queer" back into the vernacular and have no issue calling Jews Nazis (again, they're oblivious). We're entering into some kind of bizarre universe where right wing authoritarians and left wing Marxists are finding common ground. Right wing bigots finding common ground with left wing SJWs.
 
That poll doesn’t surprise me at all. A lot of young people only have the haziest idea of what happened in the past, and that combined with contrarianism/conspiratorial views mediated through the internet leads to outcomes like that. If anything I’m surprised that it would only be as low as 20 percent

For example, here’s a poll from 2008 with a sample size of 3,000 that found that many young people in the UK think Winston Churchill was a fictional character

 
I get your point on lack of education. But there is no ideological foundation to those beliefs. (The 2008 poll) No thread that leads them from their ignorance to real life consequences.

When you think about the 20% number, the degree to which they control the narratives on the biggest social media platforms... then you add in the additional 30% who are on the fence and not willing to push back against things as severe as Holocaust denial... the picture becomes quite dark.
 

Liz Magill resigns as UPenn president after disastrous hearing on antisemitism​



New YorkCNN —
In a stunning downfall for the leader of one of the world’s most prestigious universities, Liz Magill, the president of University of Pennsylvania, voluntarily stepped down from the helm of the Ivy League school on Saturday following a torrent of criticism for her testimony about antisemitism on Capitol Hill Tuesday.

“It has been my privilege to serve as President of this remarkable institution,” Magill said in a statement. “It has been an honor to work with our faculty, students, staff, alumni, and community members to advance Penn’s vital missions.”

Magill will remain on Penn’s faculty as a tenured professor at Penn Carey Law School.

So she's still employed there. 🤣
Great job, Penn.
 
Whenever the attacks against Israel are mentioned, you guys start going on about ethnic cleansing. It's not me implying it.
what does that have to do with implying that israelis deserve to be ethnically cleansed?

(from what i've seen and said):

our position is that the idf protecting terrorists in the west bank gave hamas the opportunity to do terrorism; israel responds by going on an ethnic cleansing campaign.

nothing about that implies that israelis (who generally hate netanyahu and blame him for octojber 7th) deserve to have crimes committed against them.

the nazi goons that run the israeli government deserve to be tried and imprisoned for their war crimes... not the same.

maybe you're having reading comp issues?
 
please elaborate... are you saying it's ironic for me to say that? cause i make reading errors? or what? please be specific if you have examples
 
There have been 50,000 plus documented instances of jihadist terrorism in the last 100 years. It surely is a minority but that's a whole lot more terrorism than any other religion is doing.
That's the entire story of our human history. Violence was needed to protect nations and was often used to take land or resources from others. Any one of these acts could be framed as "terrorism" which is simply violence used for political means. If you were genuinely against terrorism you would push back more against the western neoliberal/neocon states' actions today.

Jihadists are not psychopaths. Someone like Osama bin Laden was perfectly sane and rational.
Psychopaths can act sane and rationally they just do not feel guilt/empathy and can often times delight in cruelty.

They are religious zealots who truly believe they are doing the bidding of the creator of the Universe.
Bin Laden specifically had an issue with western militaries involved inside the holy lands of the middle east.
Which you could actually make a good argument for - why should the US be allowed to put hundreds of military bases around the world inside any country they choose? Would they have allowed a Saudi base in the US? Definitely not. So he had a legitimate gripe with them.

Jihadists are very clear in explaining why they do what they do, and it's not mental illness or anything prosaic like that. They will quite clearly point to the Quran and the hadith and explain that the founder of their religion, who communicated directly with God, tells them to do this. It doesn't even require deft interpretation of arcane scripture. It's right there.
Often time people will point to religious doctrine as an excuse when the real reasons are much more simple and usually based on money or land/resources.

Ah yes, Afghanistan, a true beacon of freedom for women.

I'm sure the women who get stoned to death by their own families after being raped feel respected.
There are 50 countries where Islam is majority religion and many of these countries are the some of the safest, technologically innovative, welcoming, respectful etc. They love their countries, including their islamic culture and they are horrified when they look at some cultural practices in the west that you would consider normal or beneficial for society. So who the fuck are you, as a lowlife degenerate in their eyes, to criticize what makes them happy or what they want for their lives and societies?

It's funny and super ignorant that you'd use such a barbaric and extreme example to somehow represent religious justice in the region. I just had a quick look comparing Saudi and the USA:
USA in total crimes per capita = 11 x more than Saudi
Intentional homicide rate = 5 x higher than Saudi
Robberies = 50x more




I'm not blaming people or their governments. I'm blaming their belief system. Unlike race, eye colour, height, beliefs can be changed and so beliefs are fair game for criticism. But it should be noted that Islam is one of the very few belief systems that currently justifies murdering "critics" like people who write fiction or draw cartoons. That says it all, imo.
"The Koran does not specifically prohibit insulting the Prophet. There is no agreement within mainstream Islam over what constitutes blasphemy, what the response to it should be, or how it should fit within the context of freedom of speech. It would therefore be a mistake to reduce an entire cultural identity to a narrow question of religious law" (which is what you're doing).

So really you should be blaming governments. Because I dare say the majority or potentially all of the gripes that you have are issues with governmental policies. Just because a country happens to be majority Muslim doesn't mean that every single law of that country is representative of the belief system which is obvious with the wide disparity of enforced laws across different Islamic nations.

This is a red herring. Of course they can be. They can also be dogmatic, vicious murderers and if you can't tell, it's those ones I'm talking about.
Yes you are talking about an extreme minority, without showing any genuine desire to understand the beliefs that you rally against, in order to paint an entire group (billions of people, mind you) as an "other", to excuse or defend atrocities happening against them. Most muslims wouldn't give two shits about you being a degenerate little westerner they just don't want that stuff in their countries. And their citizens are rarely trapped and can emigrate if they so wish.
 
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