Isopropyl extract of poppy pod vs. water

[CloudyHazeD]

Can anyone tell me why an extract made via isopropyl alcohol (92% ) yields such different results from a straight water extract?

I'm talking in terms of both evaporated end result and in terms of effects of said end result.

The alcohol extract yields a much smaller amount of product........and also seems to be 'weak' or lacking something vs a water extract or tea.

Are native meconic morphine/codeine alkaloids even fully soluble in isopropyl?

 

[immaturepoop]

Well, I'd imagine that the salt form of the drug would be more soluble in water, simply because it is a more polar molecule than isopropyl alcohol. That doesn't mean that the alkaloids present in poppy pods don't solvate well in isopropyl though... Just remember that like dissolves like. Much like how NaCl dissociates very well in water, but less so in alcohol.

 

[ebola?]

According to what I've read, isopropyl extractions of morphine from pods work quite poorly (I don't know if this extends to other alcohols).

You're better off with water or an acid-base tech.
There are some more unorthodox techs going around too.

ebola

 

[MurphyClox]

Basically: Isopropanol is less polar, i.e. more lipophilic. So, salts and highly polar compounds would solve less in it as they would do in water.

The details, taking morphine and codeine as representatives for all active and desired opium alkaloids:

Solubility of codeine:
free base: 1+120 (water), 1+20 (water @100°C), 1+2 (ethanol), 1+25 (acetone), 1+20 (diethylether), 1+5 (DCM
Hydrochloride: 1+30 (water), 1+1 (water @100°C, 1+100 (ethanol), 1+>1000 (acetone), 1+>1000 (diethylether), 1+500 (DCM)
Phosphate: 1+4 (water), 1 + 0,5 (water @100°C), 1+450 (ethanol), 1+>1000 (acetone), 1+>1000 (diethylether), 1+>1000 (DCM)

Solubility of morphine:
free base: 1+>1000 (water), 1+90 (ethanol), 1+600 (acetone), 1+>1000(diethylether), no value given (DCM)
Hydrochloride: 1+25 (water), 1+50 (ethanol), 1+>1000 (acetone), 1+>1000 (diethylether), 1+>1000(DCM)
all values by weight

So, according to these numbers, the best method of getting an active extract is the well known procedure of suspending your sample in hot acidic water (vinegar is OK), extract, filter, and re-extract the free bases with a less polar solvent after basifying.

The reason why you get less extract with isoprop (by weight) is simply because we encounter less isoprop-soluble substances in pods.

Peace! Murphy

 

[CloudyHazeD]

That is EXACTLY the info I've been looking for. Thanks Murphy.

Very helpful.

 

[Ham-milton]

Yeah, but how big of a difference are we talking here? A few mg or a few hundred?

 

[smackem]

ive used methanol with great success

 

[MurphyClox]

Yeah, but how big of a difference are we talking here? A few mg or a few hundred?

I would say big enough to be felt and to make the extra "effort" feasible. As some have already stated here, they used sole methanol with "great success" and other methods as well.

Solubility of a compound in methanol is expected to be in between the solubilities in ethanol and water. So: If we are talking about the hydrochlorides (or any other salt) again, then this would make sense, as these are enough soluble in methanol. But only if we had the salts! For free bases it looks different as the values tell us (taken from a handbook of qualitative pharmaceutical analysis and trustworthy).

I do not state that my suggested method is the only one but such a procedure gets the best out of your pods with least effort. How much alkaloids get lost (i.e. don't get extracted) with the MeOH-only method? Do you know for sure (@smackem)? Of course it works, too (like dozens of other methods found in the www). The OP was about quantitative extraction, as I would read between the lines

Murphy

 

[DJKAOS]

is using acetone good or bad?

 

[sekio]

Baaaaaad.

I'm closing this now.