Opioids Is this even possible??? (opiate withdrawal)

[stray cat]

update: it's now the morning of day 3 w/out any oxy. i have not yet taken any darvocet or anything else yet, and i feel relatively normal. i woke up in a pool of sweat, and i'm experiencing minor stomach irritation, but for the most part i feel perfectly fine right now, even before taking any propoxyphene.

i guess now i could either ride this out and see if i develop full blown w/d over the day or keep w/ the darv, tapering down slightly. i'll prob go w/ option 2, bc things are fine so far, i guess, so why tempt fate?

 

[Deluded]

Wheather you get the withdrawals or not, consider yourself very lucky. Most of us out here would love to be able to switch to something lighter like darvocet, codeine, or ultram.

I was only using about 200mgs of dihydrocodeine(which is OTC in some countries in europe as well) which is IMO twice as strong as codeine and tramadol. I tryed switching to 400mgs a day of tramadol and went through hell. I even had valium and lorazepam to help and I was still ready to strangle somebody. I had full blown opiate W/D, and the tramadol stimulated me so it made things worse.....

I now take prescribe hydromorphone(dilaudid) in both time release and immediate release forms. I would love to be able to switch. I overendulged last week and run out of my dilaudid, I had to take 400mgs of dihydrocodeine just to feel normal.

As for the kratom, no we cant tell you "here's where you can get it" but I can tell you there is a bum outside my house mumbling something about how he buys kratom online????? It would surprise you what can be bought online, you just have to do some digging. Kratom can also be bought in headshops. Places that sell drug para and shit like that. We have one in my area and they sell practically every herb going. So Im sure if you live in the proximity of a city, there is definitely a place that sells what your looking for. Some say kratom is a god send for opiate withdrawal. I personally have never tried it.

I tried a taper off oxy once because my doctor no longer wanted me on it. It really sucked, but was great once he got me on the hydromorphone. Now I curse him........

 

[stray cat]

hi deluded, thanks for taking the time to respond. believe me, i too consider myself very lucky at this point, regardless of the end result. i fully expected to be pretty much incapacitated right now, yet here i am typing away at work, jamming out to the grateful dead. weird.

sorry to hear about your experience w/ tramadol. i think the only experience i have with that drug involved me throwing a prescription of ultram in the trash can on the way out of the doctor's office while i cursed his name for not giving me anything better. really though, much like propoxyphene, i have never previously felt any effects whatsoever from tram, and i've always been kind of wary about the whole seizure thing.

lorazepam and valium definitely help. i have had a prescription to loraz for some time now and am fairly addicted, but one thing at a time i reckon...

that's interesting about dihydrocodeine. what brands is that drug marketed under in the u.s.? i.e., would i know it as anything else? also, is it available otc pretty much throughout europe or just a few countries? i think i fly into italy; any idea about the legal status of that or any other otc opiates there? again, i'm not soliciting here, just wondering about legal status of anything there in case i need anything to hold me when i first get there. forgive me please if that's wrong to post, i'm new.

as for the kratom, that's really all i wanted to know- basically whether it's the type of thing i can buy at a head shop near the salvia. might be worth looking into. then again, i feel great right now, so maybe down the line.

one thing that occurs to me is that i was very addicted to alcohol for several years (pretty good while relative to my age- i'm not that old- i started doing opiates fulltime when i quit drinking), and underwent fairly severe alcoholic withdrawal a number of times, as well as benzo withdrawal once in rehab. i'm wondering if those experiences have better prepared me to expect the worst w/ the whole opiate withdrawal thing and maybe i'm minimizing it. i don't know.

anyway, i really appreciate all the comments and responses. have a good one

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

"update: it's now the morning of day 3 w/out any oxy. i have not yet taken any darvocet or anything else yet, and i feel relatively normal. i woke up in a pool of sweat, and i'm experiencing minor stomach irritation, but for the most part i feel perfectly fine right now, even before taking any propoxyphene.
"

^For some reason your wd is much lighter, although still present, the pool of sweat and stomach irratation are my main two symptoms when I wd as well.

Are you pretty well versed in pain, perhaps you just took it like a man.

thats how Id tell the story.

but really cold turky from IV heroin I never felt some of the horrors BL'ers have described, burning bones! shitting and puking simultaneously, idk I sweat alot shit alot and feel hot and cold at the same time, plus anxiety and whatnot, like a bad flu mixed with a panic attack....its made worse in the mind of the addict, than telephone gamed through other addicts untill its misery has reached legendary status based on some unlucky bastard in poor health's worst wd experience ever.

 

[stray cat]

smokey, LOL. i know what u mean though. i think all of the horror stories and the kind of lurking feeling in the back of your mind where you know it's eventually going to come make it a lot worse mentally.

i will say that right now is probably the worst i've felt so far. my stomach is kind of constantly rumbling, and a sort of general malaise has set in, along w/ a slightly agitated feeling. still nothing i can't handle, and i kind of want to cut to 2 darvocets today, so i may just stick it out and see what happens. then again, i have a lunch meeting in a few minutes, and i don't really want to be feeling out of sorts, so maybe i'll pop a darvocet. i guess either way wouldn't really hurt what i'm trying to do too much.

 

[Mr Blonde]

Popping another darvocet might just put you back to square one in terms of WD.

 

[stray cat]

do you think so? i'm still having trouble understanding how taking a couple darvocets is even an issue really when i usually take 100 or more mgs oc. i get that i will eventually feel bad when i stop everything, but stopping taking a couple darvocets every day just seems so minor compared to stopping a couple 80s every day.

 

[Mr Blonde]

Well because darvocet is an opioid and binds to the same receptors. It might not put you all the way back, but I'd suspect it would put your WD progress back somewhat.

This advice is coming from someone one week clean and struggling to stay that way...

 

[stray cat]

any advice is appreciated mr. blonde. do u think i'm wasting my time w/ a darvocet taper? should i just say f' it and stop everything right now? i had planned on scaling back to 2 darvs for the next couple days, then one, and so on.. bad plan??

 

[Mr Blonde]

In my experience, darvocet is a shit opioid period.

I'm not in the best place to give expert advice right now, but here's what I have to say.

Every time I tried to taper down, it never worked. I never got to zero, and just worked my way back up.

Whenever I went cold turkey, I got clean and stayed there for sometime. I'm not a very mentally well person, so I constantly slip back into all sorts of addictions... but if you think you are ready and strong enough to quit, I think you can do it brother.

What you have is not a bad plan per se, but I think you should just deal with the pain... by this point you shouldn't have too bad a WD anyway but in some cases I think people need to feel the pain that they are causing themselves to help them quit.

Does that make any sense?

 

[stray cat]

perfect sense. if someone walks away completely unscathed, what's to prevent him from turning right back to it? "That wasn't so bad. i bet I can start doing twice as much and never suffer any consequences..." I guess going through the pain reinforces some of the reasons you're quitting in the first place.

in my case, if i had a two-week block where i could just sit at home and spew, i would have no problem w/ that approach, but i have a ton i have to get done at work before i can leave to go on this trip, and then i don't want to ruin this trip by being in w/d. so i guess i'm trying to cut my doses aggressively and endure as much pain as i can, while still being able to function. i'm open to any suggestions though, and if the consensus is that i'm just prolonging the inevitable, then i can just suck it up and stop now if i have to.

thank you for your comments

 

[Mr Blonde]

^ I have to admit I'm not exactly the most sane nor sober person around... so I may not have completely read the entire thread...

But if you have something coming up that's important, I would put off the WD until after that if you can. I've done that before, for example when I know I'm going to get laid and I don't want to be in WD and blow my load in two seconds.

 

[stray cat]

ha, it's cool. basically, i've had a 100+mg daily oc habit for about 2 years, and last week i rapidly cut it down to 40, then 20 and 2 darvocets. the last 2 days i have only taken 3 darvocets, so now i am in day 3 of no oxy whatsoever and only small amounts of propoxyphene. and i don't really feel too bad at all. i have to go on a trip in about a week and a half, and i'm trying to be done with w/d, etc. before then. my plan is to taper the darv more and then drop off completely by the weekend, hopefully minimizing the physical symptoms as much as possible. b/c i haven't really felt too badly at all to speak of yet, i'm wondering if my plan is working well... if i'm just putting off horrible w/ds ... or what??

 

[Deluded]

hi deluded, thanks for taking the time to respond. believe me, i too consider myself very lucky at this point, regardless of the end result. i fully expected to be pretty much incapacitated right now, yet here i am typing away at work, jamming out to the grateful dead. weird.

sorry to hear about your experience w/ tramadol. i think the only experience i have with that drug involved me throwing a prescription of ultram in the trash can on the way out of the doctor's office while i cursed his name for not giving me anything better. really though, much like propoxyphene, i have never previously felt any effects whatsoever from tram, and i've always been kind of wary about the whole seizure thing.

lorazepam and valium definitely help. i have had a prescription to loraz for some time now and am fairly addicted, but one thing at a time i reckon...

that's interesting about dihydrocodeine. what brands is that drug marketed under in the u.s.? i.e., would i know it as anything else? also, is it available otc pretty much throughout europe or just a few countries? i think i fly into italy; any idea about the legal status of that or any other otc opiates there? again, i'm not soliciting here, just wondering about legal status of anything there in case i need anything to hold me when i first get there. forgive me please if that's wrong to post, i'm new.

as for the kratom, that's really all i wanted to know- basically whether it's the type of thing i can buy at a head shop near the salvia. might be worth looking into. then again, i feel great right now, so maybe down the line.

one thing that occurs to me is that i was very addicted to alcohol for several years (pretty good while relative to my age- i'm not that old- i started doing opiates fulltime when i quit drinking), and underwent fairly severe alcoholic withdrawal a number of times, as well as benzo withdrawal once in rehab. i'm wondering if those experiences have better prepared me to expect the worst w/ the whole opiate withdrawal thing and maybe i'm minimizing it. i don't know.

anyway, i really appreciate all the comments and responses. have a good one

No, your not sourcing and Im not soliciting. It would be a different story if I was naming a specific place, email address, website or something to that effect. We just have to keep the details very vague.

Im sure most places that are an established headshop would have the kratom right near the salvia. Actually, Salvia is illegal in some states I believe but very few. So some of the headshops would be more likely to have kratom then salvia.

As far as I know, most countries within the EU(european union) have OTC codeine and dihydrocodeine. Unlike canada, they also dont have other crap like caffeine put in the OTC tabs. But most do contain Paracetamol/Acetaminophen. If your flight by any chance has a layover in the UK(Great Britain/ Northern Ireland) then pop in the chemist and grab a pack of Paramol. It contains dihydrocodeine and paracetamol. As for elseware, I know codeine is OTC in the UK, and most of the EU. The difference is, in the EU, the pharmacist or "chemist" has the right to refuse sale. So if someone walks in there claiming to be in opiate withdrawal, or they look like a junky, they most certainly wont sell it to the customer.

This is so rare, you have no clue. (about how rare your situation is) I have probablt met over 500 opiate users and I have never once met one person who had such an easy time with the withdrawals. Most people who even have a hefty tolerance to the "weaker" opiates/opioid's like codeine, dihydrocodeine, propoxyphene, and tramadol(if you'd call tramadol an opioid) go through hell when they stop use abruptly. I heard darvocet was great for opiate withdrawal, but not that great.

I now have titrated up to 18mgs of Hydromorph Contin every 12 hours, and 4mgs of Dilaudid(hydromorphone hcl) every 4 hours, and if I were to only have say, 15-20mgs over the course of the day, I would feel much worse then you are describing, and I would be ready to kill somebody if all I had was darvocet,

You are so lucky. Just dont take anymore Oxy if you have gotten your tolerance down, or it could bring on a strong withdrawal. Our bodys are very funny sometimes.

 

[stray cat]

also i'm going to europe, and i can prob get another darv script since that evidently keeps me feeling surprisingly well (???), plus i am hoping they have otc something in case i need it, but generally, i would like to be done anyway

 

[Mr Blonde]

They should have codeine and dihydrocodeine OTC in most of Europe... depending on where you go, you can get benzos I believe.

Your WD shouldn't be too bad, if you mentally prep yourself up for a bad one then it just makes it worse, you know?

 

[187coopa]

If you can hold urself with 3 darvos with no w/d then dont eat a whole 8mg sub. you could get away with snortin like .5mgs maybe a lil less.. bupe is pretty damn potent.


so i guess when ur on vaca you can have one or two as insurance just incase you w/d.

and bube is alot less risky to have than say ocs or something cause they are not a 2nd degree felony like oxys are if you are in the states.

also what someone said a couple lines above this might be a one time thing if you get hooked on oxs again you might be in the same boat as most of us.

 

[stray cat]

lol, dude, i was thinking that as soon as i read that post! no offense to the person who said it, and i appreciate all advice, but telling someone who can avoid withdrawal on 3 darvocets a day (2 today MFs, i'm tapering!) to take a whole 8mg sub is like the worst advice ever. i might try to score one or 2 of them as insurance b4 i leave, but yeah, 187coopa, i think the most i would need is like .5, just a crumb.

i'm really hoping i can just get off this stuff altogether before i leave, but i'll prob refill my darvocets too, since they have done such a surprisingly good job so far, and i think that should be enough to prevent any sort of surprise w/ds on the trip. plus i can prob get some otc codeine or something if i have to.

i'm not going to lie though. i'm pretty damn optimistic about all this right now. day 3 w/ no oxy, skipped my mid-day darv, and i still feel absolutely fine. i don't want to speak too soon, but i really think i'm going to get off this stuff!

 

[StaffWriter]

on a positive note, just knowing i can survive on darvocet (to which i am validly prescribed but had not refilled in like a year), ought to save me a lot of money even if i can't quit altogether yet.

If you live in the US, do you know if your script is still valid, since it has been longer than 6 months since your last fill? Anyway, you should go cold turkey and get the crap overwith. 100mg+ of oxy, at least to me, is a mild habit and you will feel quite a bit discomfort. If it came down to it, I can still work and be in wd (that's just the way my body works). But if I were you, take the darvs while on vacation, if that's holding you now. Either that, or buy 2 subs and take around 1mg daily. Good luck. I've had to do this many times before going on vacation. That's one reason why I never went with methadone maintenance is because my other joy in life is travelling and it would be very difficult to travel and guest-dose since I'm in a new city everyday.

 

[stray cat]

so staffwriter, you think the worst is yet to come for me? i'm down to 2 darvs today, was going to do that again tomorrow, then 1 on thurs/fri, half on sat/sun, then nothing. at that point (or some time b/t now and then) i will most likely still suffer intense w/ds u think?

my script is valid in the sense that since i've had it prescribed w/ refills before on numerous occasions, my dr will just call it in again to the pharmacy if i leave a msg for it on his prescription refill line (this is what i did to get my darvocet again last month and was given 3 refills, so i know the refill will be valid and available close to departure time). i do it like clockwork with my ritalin and loraz, as soon as they can legally be filled again, but he has no prob refilling propox w/ a few refills anytime even though i don't get it filled as often.

hmmm... so much to think about...