Heroin Is there anything that can aid me during the waiting phase between going from heroin to buprenorphine; or anything to help withdrawals in general?

[Daddydopedick]

As the title suggests.

My mental health is in a bit of a shambles and one minute I'm alright and the next I'm not. I initially smoked heroin (never injected) and went on buprenorphine for it (Espranor, those wafers.)

Anyway, I have a tendency to relapse once in a while and the change from heroin to buprenorphine gets worse every time as you have to wait due to reciprocated withdrawals. I was wondering if there's anything that can help during that 24 hour wait period?

Other than benzos, is there anything else I could use to help me during these phases/general withdrawals or even during coming off smoking heroin alone (If I decided to stop and not go back to buprenorphine that is.)

There's benzos for anxiety but they're just as & if not more addictive. Is there anything else that could help? Could pregabalin, for instance do, any good in this situation? Or literally anything else? Any help would be appreciated, thanks.

 

[deficiT]

Yeah pregabalin, gabapentin, phenibut, stuff like that I could see helping for sure. Also check out black seed oil. That stuff is a lifesaver for H withdrawal. And the obvious stuff like kratom and what not.

 

[Xorkoth]

What deficit said, gabapentinoids work wonders. Also kratom, being a partial agonist, kratom will not cause precipitated withdrawal from taking buprenorphine. It will help take the edge off of heroin withdrawal and won't land you in trouble when you switch to bupe.

 

[Daddydopedick]

Yeah pregabalin, gabapentin, phenibut, stuff like that I could see helping for sure. Also check out black seed oil. That stuff is a lifesaver for H withdrawal. And the obvious stuff like kratom and what not.

Thanks man, really appreciate it. Why is it that pregabs etc help so much; do you know? As for the black seed oil, I'll look into it myself. I'm meant to be at the end of my treatment and coming off bupe for good soon but I have nearly 10 gram of really good H and I don't trust myself with it Luckily I tapered down myself without saying anything and have a huge stockpile of bupe under my bed.

Kratom is illegal where I'm from (UK) and not too easy to get hold of due to customs being extremely tight. I'll try my best to get some though.

 

[Daddydopedick]

What deficit said, gabapentinoids work wonders. Also kratom, being a partial agonist, kratom will not cause precipitated withdrawal from taking buprenorphine. It will help take the edge off of heroin withdrawal and won't land you in trouble when you switch to bupe.

Thanks dude, I appreciate your help. Do you know why it is that gabapentoids help so much with this? Also, like I said to the other dude, here in the UK Kratom is illegal and border control is extremely tight. I'll try my best to get some but I'm lead to believe red Bali is the best for opiate-like properties?

 

[Xorkoth]

Not really sure to be honest. Gabapentinoids interact with voltage gated calcium ion channels, which results in higher levels of various neurotransmitters hanging out in the synaptic cleft, but I don't know why that would help with the physical withdrawal symptoms. It makes sense why it would help with the mental/emotional symptoms, but they also help greatly with the physical. Not sure anyone really understands why they help so much, or for that matter, understands fully why gabapentinoids have the range of effects that they do.

 

[Daddydopedick]

Not really sure to be honest. Gabapentinoids interact with voltage gated calcium ion channels, which results in higher levels of various neurotransmitters hanging out in the synaptic cleft, but I don't know why that would help with the physical withdrawal symptoms. It makes sense why it would help with the mental/emotional symptoms, but they also help greatly with the physical. Not sure anyone really understands why they help so much, or for that matter, understands fully why gabapentinoids have the range of effects that they do.

Maybe you're right, maybe it doesn't have an effect on the physical w/d. But there's more to opiate w/d than physical ones. Many like myself experience immense anxiety and dissociation. Maybe it doesn't help with the physical side but mentally it could help and maybe that's why it's used the way it is? Not sure. Either, going to get myself some along with black seed oil and Kratom (if I can get my hands on it, it's illegal in the UK.)

 

[plumbus-nine]

Memantine. And DXM but that one has a trip built in while memantine alone is pretty clean. I can't repeat it often enough, NMDA antagonists aren't magic but when it comes to opioid withdrawal they are close to that. You can literally just skip all the misery, diarrhea, nausea, lethargy, restlessness etc. It's like you never had tolerance to opioids after some decent doses of a dissociative. People seem not to belief it, and few really try because the addiction counselors don't give a shit but it's backed by a ton of research and actually works.

 

[Daddydopedick]

Memantine. And DXM but that one has a trip built in while memantine alone is pretty clean. I can't repeat it often enough, NMDA antagonists aren't magic but when it comes to opioid withdrawal they are close to that. You can literally just skip all the misery, diarrhea, nausea, lethargy, restlessness etc. It's like you never had tolerance to opioids after some decent doses of a dissociative. People seem not to belief it, and few really try because the addiction counselors don't give a shit but it's backed by a ton of research and actually works.

So when you're talking about skipping all the misery, diarrhoea, nausea etc, are you talking about DXM, memantine or gabapentoids? Sorry, I just had trouble piecing the paragraph together properly and can't tell what's referring to what. Either way, thanks for the info dude I appreciate it

 

[Luv714]

Don't forget about loperamide. It's certainly no miracle cure- but if you are in a bind and have no other option, it definitely can help. You have to take alot of them in order to get them working but... for me- it was worth it. I was in a bad spot, I think on second day of my hard, physical part of of withdrawal. I absolutely HAD to get to work. It was a matter of --if I miss one more day, I'd be out the door. So, since I can't have that- I did some research and a few folks mentioned it. The beauty part was that I wouldn't need a script. I was in a Dollar store and found some generic ones (generic for Immodium). Funny thing was that everything in there is supposed to be a dollar but these pills were $5.99. How's that? Made me mad, but realistically- was really glad to find them at all. In the " regular" drug stores they start at 8.99 for a smaller size than I was looking at (for 5.99). So I think I bought like 3 or 4 bottles and got home quick. These were capsules and they were only 2mg each, so I decided to empty them out and just swallow the powder. It'd be easier than trying to swallow 30 capsules at a time. (Keep in mind that- thirty capsules is only sixty mg. I was trying to get about 180 - 200mg in me). Managed to open 90 capsules and pour powder onto piece of paper. Got a full glass of gatorade and another full glass of water with me. I finally was able to get the 90 caps open & take out powder inside. Downed powder in 3 gulps with all the liquid and went back and got more water.

After getting the 180mg in me, I knew it was just a matter of time until I felt a bit better. So I got on the bus which takes me to the train. There is nothing like being in a super crowded, rush-hour commute when you are in the real suck part of withdrawal. I'm just keeping my head down and trying to go about my own business- but its hard. At any rate -fast forward to about 2 to 3 hours later and I'm working, which I never thought I could do on that day. I'm not doing jumping jacks, but I am functioning without agony, nausea, major headache. That- for me is a HUGE win. I was able to get thru the whole day without falling apart. As I mentioned- it's not a miracle but sometimes, just getting thru the day is all you need and thats exactly what I got. I was absolutely thrilled with the result and will keep this in my back pocket in case it's needed in the future. This is definitely not something you can do all the time, for loperamide is really bad especially in large doses like that. But in an emergency-type situation, I'm incredibly glad that it worked. The next two days I had off so that was lucky. Maybe sharing this can help someone else (hope so).

 

[Daddydopedick]

Don't forget about loperamide. It's certainly no miracle cure- but if you are in a bind and have no other option, it definitely can help. You have to take alot of them in order to get them working but... for me- it was worth it. I was in a bad spot, I think on second day of my hard, physical part of of withdrawal. I absolutely HAD to get to work. It was a matter of --if I miss one more day, I'd be out the door. So, since I can't have that- I did some research and a few folks mentioned it. The beauty part was that I wouldn't need a script. I was in a Dollar store and found some generic ones (generic for Immodium). Funny thing was that everything in there is supposed to be a dollar but these pills were $5.99. How's that? Made me mad, but realistically- was really glad to find them at all. In the " regular" drug stores they start at 8.99 for a smaller size than I was looking at (for 5.99). So I think I bought like 3 or 4 bottles and got home quick. These were capsules and they were only 2mg each, so I decided to empty them out and just swallow the powder. It'd be easier than trying to swallow 30 capsules at a time. (Keep in mind that- thirty capsules is only sixty mg. I was trying to get about 180 - 200mg in me). Managed to open 90 capsules and pour powder onto piece of paper. Got a full glass of gatorade and another full glass of water with me. I finally was able to get the 90 caps open & take out powder inside. Downed powder in 3 gulps with all the liquid and went back and got more water.

After getting the 180mg in me, I knew it was just a matter of time until I felt a bit better. So I got on the bus which takes me to the train. There is nothing like being in a super crowded, rush-hour commute when you are in the real suck part of withdrawal. I'm just keeping my head down and trying to go about my own business- but its hard. At any rate -fast forward to about 2 to 3 hours later and I'm working, which I never thought I could do on that day. I'm not doing jumping jacks, but I am functioning without agony, nausea, major headache. That- for me is a HUGE win. I was able to get thru the whole day without falling apart. As I mentioned- it's not a miracle but sometimes, just getting thru the day is all you need and thats exactly what I got. I was absolutely thrilled with the result and will keep this in my back pocket in case it's needed in the future. This is definitely not something you can do all the time, for loperamide is really bad especially in large doses like that. But in an emergency-type situation, I'm incredibly glad that it worked. The next two days I had off so that was lucky. Maybe sharing this can help someone else (hope so).

Thanks for the information man, I appreciate it. Also, I'm glad you made it through your w/d in the end. I've never heard of this drug and I'm in the UK so it may not be as widely available here...but I'll check

Update: Found it, it's easy to get hold of.

 

[Ds]

good to hear @Daddydopedick !

I don't have access to much besides over the counter shit but what helped me for the few days before I would even try a suboxone was Kratom & Imodium.

How long are you waiting until you take the suboxone?

 

[Xorkoth]

Maybe you're right, maybe it doesn't have an effect on the physical w/d. But there's more to opiate w/d than physical ones. Many like myself experience immense anxiety and dissociation. Maybe it doesn't help with the physical side but mentally it could help and maybe that's why it's used the way it is? Not sure. Either, going to get myself some along with black seed oil and Kratom (if I can get my hands on it, it's illegal in the UK.)

Oh, no, I'm saying it definitely DOES have an effect on the physical withdrawal, too. I just don't understand why it does.

Gabapentin and even moreso Lyrica/pregabalin are the absolute best drugs to help opiate withdrawal, they work somewhat for GABAergic withdrawal, too. Barring another opioid, of course (kratom is an opioid, it probably helps just as much but it can easily set you back and prolong withdrawal, being an opioid).

 

[ReasonableWonder83]

Oh, no, I'm saying it definitely DOES have an effect on the physical withdrawal, too. I just don't understand why it does.

Gabapentin and even moreso Lyrica/pregabalin are the absolute best drugs to help opiate withdrawal, they work somewhat for GABAergic withdrawal, too. Barring another opioid, of course (kratom is an opioid, it probably helps just as much but it can easily set you back and prolong withdrawal, being an opioid).

Kratom..... Trust me! About 10 grams should help you.... I would take 8-15 grams... Kratom is measured in grams not mgs... It saved my life!

 

[Pandamonia]

Kratom..... Trust me! About 10 grams should help you.... I would take 8-15 grams... Kratom is measured in grams not mgs... It saved my life!

I kicked a 2-year daily habit some years back clean, overnight, with just kratom. I started with 13 grams of it the first day, by the 3rd day I was down to 9, within a week or so I had it down to 5 or 6. It took several weeks before I could cut the kratom completely without the withdrawal coming back, but for those first few weeks, kratom lept almost all the withdrawals completely at bay - not necessarily gone (at least the first few days), but definitely manageable and tolerable.

 

[Xorkoth]

You didn't just end up addicted to kratom after that? Lucky. I guess for me, since the first opiate I was addicted to was kratom (for years), I just immediately get addicted to kratom. Even using it 2 days in a row gives me a little bit of withdrawals. They're not as bad as stronger opiates but they're pretty bad, and the restlessness is awful.

 

[hylite]

You didn't just end up addicted to kratom after that? Lucky. I guess for me, since the first opiate I was addicted to was kratom (for years), I just immediately get addicted to kratom. Even using it 2 days in a row gives me a little bit of withdrawals. They're not as bad as stronger opiates but they're pretty bad, and the restlessness is awful.

Kratom IS too strong for me. That just sealed the deal.

Edit: Kratom is very strong in my opinion ! ! (potency)

 

[Pandamonia]

You didn't just end up addicted to kratom after that? Lucky. I guess for me, since the first opiate I was addicted to was kratom (for years), I just immediately get addicted to kratom. Even using it 2 days in a row gives me a little bit of withdrawals. They're not as bad as stronger opiates but they're pretty bad, and the restlessness is awful.

No, and I was kind of concerned about that at the time - was worried i was just kicking the can down the road, but I reasoned that it was a hell of a lot cheaper than trying to taper off smack. I really think I'm an outlier, because everyone I know or have heard of who is addicted to kratom is someone who switched to kratom to kick harder opiates - they just switched one addiction for another. I really expected that to happen to me too, but I think i got really lucky.

This was about 6 years back, and I still take kratom regularly, but not daily. I go a couple of days a week without just because it's something I'm very conscious of, and I want to do constant self checks and make sure I'm not in denial about anything - and the days I don't take it are fine. I'm a little jumpy on the 2nd day, like when you drink coffee every day and then stop suddenly, but by the 3rd day that's easing up. Over christmas I had the flu really badly for about 3 weeks, and just didn't feel like choking down that awful-tasting kratom, so I went without for at least 2 weeks straight. No problem.

I think it's really, really odd that kratom should be so variable like this. It seems to defy everythiung I thought we knew about addiction - I know that with some drugs, there are people who become dependent on them much more easily than others, and that sometimes people don't become dependent at all.... but dependency and addiction are not the same thing; I don't understand how it's possible for some people to become actually, physically addicted to kratom and other people not, no matter how much they take or how long they take it. From what I thought I knew about addiction, I would have thought that's impossible.

 

[hylite]

Edit: Kratom is very strong in my opinion ! ! (potency)

or it's poison, still can't really figure it out.

yes kratom really is the other drug !

 

[hylite]

too much work for the stomach, but you have to do what you have to. when you have to do it !!