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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Is there an over the counter substance that has the same effect as Phinibut?

D

Draygoes

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 7, 2023
Messages
57
I actually don't have a lot to add.
I'm looking for something that does exactly what phinibut does but takes effect faster.
And before someone even jokingly suggest alcohol, sadly that would kill me.
 
I think gabapentin and pregabalin are the only similar approved substances but they aren't OTC in most countries. Or perhaps baclofen. There is the research chemical F-phenibut but that's not OTC either.
 
I wish there were more good OTC substances left with which one wouldn't have to be afraid of getting cut off the supply. DXM is the only one left which is worthwile. Can't comment about Benzedrex because it's not available here but read that it was a shitty high. At least it's a high at all. I snorted bupropion when nothing else was available and got a 30 min high followed by hours of shitty comedown so I didn't repeat it.
 
Draygoes said:
I actually don't have a lot to add.
I'm looking for something that does exactly what phinibut does but takes effect faster.
And before someone even jokingly suggest alcohol, sadly that would kill me.
Click to expand...
Kava may be close as far as anti anxiety drugs go that are over the counter. But you have to get good kava from a reputable vendor and it’s not cheap.

Phenibut is unique though. It has a unique pharmacological profile and from what I remember it is similiar in some ways to baclofen but that’s prescription only.
 
Not really besides baclofen and other addictive substances. I could be wrong but I've used phenibut, at most twice a week since, 2005, usually once a month or every few months, but even after one use two days after seemed a rebound.


There's things that can effect gaba like l theanine, maybe cannabis if your ok with that and not giving it a break or not doing it. Best thing is to go through with it.
 
For me kava is also the closest feeling at a high dose. Phenibut was amazing when I was doing it last December, but eventually I got kind of tired of it, which is fortunate because I felt myself getting rather tempted to do it too much. I've still got some but I don't think I'll ever take it again. Kava honestly felt overall nicer and had no hangover.
 
The Soviet's developed a GABA-b drug that accordingly to Wikipedia is OTC sold in the US as nootropic supplement. No personal experience with it offcourse. As over here they are a bit more tight when it comes to supplements and OTC products. Kava Kava, according to Wiki a GABA-a agonist, for example is illegal and DXM has been taken of the shelves and can't even be presribed anymore. Despite it being a amazing drug for treating the cough reflex.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Picamilon

After some web surfing all kinds of sites popped up including some that sell it where I live. But the effects described picked my curiousity. It seems like a mild drug. But it is presribed in Russia. Its uses are very broad, calming, energizing, nootropic, anti-epileptic co-medication ( presumably ) and lots of other benefits.
 
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BourbonMac said:
For me kava is also the closest feeling at a high dose. Phenibut was amazing when I was doing it last December, but eventually I got kind of tired of it, which is fortunate because I felt myself getting rather tempted to do it too much. I've still got some but I don't think I'll ever take it again. Kava honestly felt overall nicer and had no hangover.
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Fun fact:

I have had very enjoyable experiences using Kava.

Get this, when I'm tolerant to Gabapentinoids, Kava has little to no noticeable effect. I've drank entire bottles of concentrate (60 servings) with no effect. If I'm not currently taking Gabapentinoids, Kava has an effect on me that I really dig.

This took me years of bullshit before I made the connection. I didn't know if I was getting bunk Kava, if my biology was somehow out of whack, perhaps enzymes being influence by my diet or a supplement. It was only when I made the visceral realization that Kava and Gabapentinoids felt "the same". It was like remembering a feeling.

This is all total conjecture at this time, but I have serious opinions regarding not necessarily cross-tolerance per se, but some kind of overlap in effect between these substances. I could be totally mistaken. That's where I'm at though.

With this in mind, I would recommend at least giving Kava a try. There are a variety of ways to take the substance. There are capsules, powders, pre-made tinctures and so on. Just make sure you do your research before making a purchase. Kava must be prepared in a specific way to truly be effective. It's not something that can simply be ground up and dissolved in Alcohol.

Aside from Kava, there are a variety of herbs and such that are revered for their sedating and tranquilizing effects. I've tried mostly all of them in various forms. Most of these herbs would be described as highly subtle for someone looking for a substitute for a drug like Phenibut. Sure, your grandmother might get rocked by some Passionflower Tea. That doesn't mean we can medicate a withdrawing junkie with the stuff.

Even Kava might seem trivial to a seasoned drug user. I still think that if you give it a chance it could be a healthier, more stable choice for you than what you're doing now. Phenibut can be a harsh mistress.
 
There's not really any OTC drugs with similar effects.
 
Keif' Richards said:
Fun fact:

I have had very enjoyable experiences using Kava.

Get this, when I'm tolerant to Gabapentinoids, Kava has little to no noticeable effect. I've drank entire bottles of concentrate (60 servings) with no effect. If I'm not currently taking Gabapentinoids, Kava has an effect on me that I really dig.

This took me years of bullshit before I made the connection. I didn't know if I was getting bunk Kava, if my biology was somehow out of whack, perhaps enzymes being influence by my diet or a supplement. It was only when I made the visceral realization that Kava and Gabapentinoids felt "the same". It was like remembering a feeling.

This is all total conjecture at this time, but I have serious opinions regarding not necessarily cross-tolerance per se, but some kind of overlap in effect between these substances. I could be totally mistaken. That's where I'm at though.

With this in mind, I would recommend at least giving Kava a try. There are a variety of ways to take the substance. There are capsules, powders, pre-made tinctures and so on. Just make sure you do your research before making a purchase. Kava must be prepared in a specific way to truly be effective. It's not something that can simply be ground up and dissolved in Alcohol.

Aside from Kava, there are a variety of herbs and such that are revered for their sedating and tranquilizing effects. I've tried mostly all of them in various forms. Most of these herbs would be described as highly subtle for someone looking for a substitute for a drug like Phenibut. Sure, your grandmother might get rocked by some Passionflower Tea. That doesn't mean we can medicate a withdrawing junkie with the stuff.

Even Kava might seem trivial to a seasoned drug user. I still think that if you give it a chance it could be a healthier, more stable choice for you than what you're doing now. Phenibut can be a harsh mistress.
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I was taking 900mg Gabapentin while using kava and it still worked, but maybe that's just not a high enough amount and I didn't exactly abuse it per se. I'm working on getting off it completely at the moment. I will say it could be pretty inconsistent at times, more than I'd think it should've been especially with the uber potent extract which one time I took about 6g of (recommended dose is like, 0.75g) I felt like I was on MDMA. That same extract never really worked again after that, like it just didn't do anything and eventually my skin would dry out regardless of if I used ground leaf or extract.
 
Phenibut is with it's pharmacological profile FMHO and FME Vgcc blocker as pregabalin and gabapentin

a Gaba-b agonist, with some strange dopaminergic activity and Gaba-a I think but that is all depending on dosages.

I tried kava and it is similar to low dose diazepam and low dose pregabalin, twice as it's not on the market here in Adriatic EU.

This will sound strange but Kratom green mixed with red in 70:30 in span of couple hrs in on day gave me speedy yet calm effect and nothing like opioid.

I think there are no OTC that strong on psyche like Phenibut which is why it is banned all over the globe
 
gabapentin a Gaba-b agonist, with some strange dopaminergic activity and Gaba-a I think but that is all depending on dosages.
Click to expand...
Gabapentin is neither a GABA-A nor GABA-B receptor binder and has no dopaminergic activity, it blocks calcium channels exclusively.
 
soryy for misinfo or wrong as pregab user I know about Gabapentin and pregabalin are just modulating gaba via a2d but You are
here to correct me and that i rescpect
Sorry everyone
 
I have not. But it would be curious to try.

I am not sure it actually works exclusively by elevating GABA directly. Why?
1. Ordinarily every drug that stimulates GABA-A or GABA-B produces dose-dependent sedation. Picamilon is apparently sedating at low doses and stimulating at higher doses.
2. Given that stimulating GABA-A or GABA-B (A especially) will produce respiratory depression in excess, a drug that drastically elevates GABA should in theory pose a risk of respiratory depression and death. Picamilon seems to neither produce respiratory depression at any dose, and is not toxic at all - this reference claims it takes more than 10g/kg orally and 6-10g/kg injected in mice to kill 50%. For comparison table salt's LD50 is around 3g/kg orally, and even sugar is 30g/kg orally.
3. GABA-A and GABA-B agonists produce typical dependence and withdrawal symptoms. Picamilon seems to produce neither dependence nor withdrawal.

That said there are studies showing it does works as an anxiolytic... somehow. But it doesn't seem like typical GABAergic effects.

Another one to look into is Selank. I once tried some as a nasal spray, and though I am usually not troubled by anxiety, it did take the edge off some unnerving situations. (I wanted my often-anxious friend to try some but he never got the chance...)

In the total opposite of what you asked for, there is a 4-amino-acid protien called CCK-4 (derived from a gastric hormone called cholecystokinin or CCK through chemical synthesis, and not present naturally) whose effect when injected even in tiny doses (50 ug) causes massive panic attacks (without any other actual direct physical effects). It's sometimes used (with consent of course!) to cause anxiety in a fairly safe, consistent, reliable, on-demand fashion in studies testing new anxiolytic drugs, because making people have a panic attack usually takes some work, could be of differing intensity, and is specific to every individual. And thankfully it has a half life of 13 minutes, so in the worst case it will take 90 minutes to be eliminated, but thankfully the worst would be over in 15 minutes (which admittedly would feel like forever, but imagine if it was a half life of 13 hours... it would be a war crime to dose it.)
Somewhat jokingly, I say it should be added to the local "down" supply, as an aversive agent to make people innately dislike the sad, toxic, mislabeled excuse of mixed sedatives that are sold as "heroin" here. (often mixes of fentanyl, carfentanil, superpotent benzos, and even xylazine, and rarely if ever any actual poppy-derived heroin). It's to the point doctors will literally prescribe dozens of injectable 8mg Dilaudids delivered daily for free, in addition to methadone, just to get addicts to stop ODing and ending up with dual opioid/benzo withdrawals.
By all rights you should be panicking if you use the filth sold today. Superpowerful opioids and superpowerful benzos and even toxic cuts... what are you even thinking? There's no way to use it safely, and no easy way to know how much of each drug is in the mixture (and also no way to easily ID the benzo). Want heroin? Get in line for the time machine to 1975.
 
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