Is the government winning it's war on drugs?

[mepat1111]

We all love to proclaim how the government will never win this silly war on drugs, however it appears to me that in Australia exactly that is happening. Cannabis will always be relatively easy to obtain and cheap due to the fact that it can be grown just about anywhere, but our borders are so strictly controlled that other major drugs seem to be losing popularity.

MDMA is basically non-existent in Australia at the moment, you can scroll through the pill info request threads and pill reports and you find mostly BZP, TFMPP & Mephedrone (4-mmc) - or nothing at all - in most pills. Because of the low quality of pills and, people who are new to them aren't enjoying them as much as those of us who started a few years ago, as one Bluelighter said in another thread:

After wasting money on 8 dud pills and 2 caps from different sources I really cannot be bothered with this stuff anymore. The few times I have had good stuff its been great, but the hassle with getting ripped off + legal ramifications really doesnt make it worth it

Of course this Bluelighter is going to tell the same thing to their friends, which means their friends are less likely to want to try pills, which will have a roll on effect over time, eventually reducing demand. I know when I first started using pills there was no way I would've had thoughts like the above, and I wanted to get all my friends to try it! Apart from cannabis, ecstasy is usually the first drug people try - I personally consider it to be the real gateway drug. From my own observations, many people who try cannabis won't ever use any other illegal drug, but most who try ecstacy go on to take other drugs.

With the clamp down on pseudoephedrine sales I've also noticed that methamphetamine is getting more difficult to obtain and less popular. While it seems cocaine is becoming slightly more popular and easy to get, it is still so expensive that very few people could afford to use it on even a semi-regular basis.

It seems to me that people's attitudes are changing on AusDD, older users are getting more frustrated than ever that it's "just not what it used to be", and newer users seem to be less common and less enthusiastic.

Unfortunately the one exception seems to be heroin, which seems to be gathering popularity again, however I can't really imagine this ever being a mainstream drug in the same way that ecstasy and amphetamines are.

 

[baysieguy1]

mepat1111

War what war?

Once the government realise it isn't a war they might have a chance of getting some resolution to their concerns.

Governments never fucking learn, history dictates that very few wars in the history of the world have actully been won!!!!!

 

[lil angel15]

It's certainly an interesting question but one with many answers. The war hasn't been won, nor will it ever be won. Mankind has been seeking out altered states of consciousness since the beginning of time and will continue to do so until our dying days. The one thing that has changed is the attitudes surrounding these altered states and the technology surrounding drug development.

Drug use ebbs and flows like the ocean. The use of Cannabis is a given, however, over time there has been the introduction of a variety of compounds that have had a significant effect on a generation and the acceptance of its intake as the norm. In recent times (60's) we had LSD make a significant impact on society before the tide started to recede in response to the government reaction. The usual suspects remained a constant until the early 80's when MDMA hit the scene and progressively infiltrated the market. Government reactions to this may have affected the current supply, however, it will never wipe it out.

In response to the current market vacuum, we now see the introduction of RC's into mainstream society. Although these compounds have been available for numerous years, it's only now that people are seeking out alternative highs and we see them coming to the attention of LE. The normalisation of these compounds just stretches the boundaries of 'altered states' to a new level and acts a counter-productive force against the 'War on Drugs'. New compounds will continue to be developed and the cost of enforcing them all will only increase.

Governments need to accept the fact that people will continue to alter their states of consciousness - no matter what the laws - and as long as they (LE) continue to pour money into enforcement, rather than education, then they will never see a change.

 

[TekRa]

I too have pondered over the state of things in Aus atm and if this is indicating the authorities are "winning".

Particularly with pills and meth they seem to be getting harder to obtain. As these are my two drugs of choice I keep hoping that things will turn around, but sadly to me things do seem to be pointing to the fact that this may be just how it is from now on :-(

However why is it now that this is happening? Last year things were still great, especially in terms of meth there was nothing but decent stuff around, then all of a sudden towards the end of last year it was just gone. Would the clamp down on precursors made that difference? I don't know enough about that side of things to really know.

As for pills, the same question, I don't get why there was such a sudden huge change. And with this change, is it possible to be reversed?

 

[Crankinit]

I think like anything it comes and goes. We still hear about the sudden plummet in heroin availability in the early 2000's, yet by all accounts it's climbing again, I think we're probably seeing something similar for MDMA at the moment (although hopefully with a more immediate conclusion, I don't want to wait a decade for decent MDMA to become common again).

I can only speculate about the cause of such a sudden fall in availability, but I'd imagine it has a lot less to do with local factors than it does to do with international ones. By all accounts the same process began in Europe 2 or 3 years back, and America seems to be following in suit. If I had to make a (far from educated) guess, it would be that some precursor or another has become tightly restricted in the relevant countries, causing a reduction in what can be produced and leading to heavier substitution and contamination in the pill market.

As for meth, if there's been a drop off in availability I haven't noticed it. I'm finding the stuff just as easily as ever (which isn't to say it falls out of the sky, but I can usually locate the stuff) and paying identical prices to what I was in late 07 when I first started using it.

The reverse is true for a lot of drugs. Ketamine popularity seems to have skyrocketed, just as an example, it's much cheaper without a drop in quality and is being used by a far less restricted cross section than it was a few years back. Pharmaceutical opiates have taken off as well, nobody except the drug nerds even knew what oxy was 2 years ago, yet it seems to be common knowledge these days and very much in demand.

 

[Sameria]

The goverment won't win the drug war unless they rid every sungle human being of the desire to use psychoactive materials.

Now, the simple reality that Alcohol exists and has such close ties to so many different areas in modern society makes the Government's objectives nearly impossible, to say the least.

The only way that the government will win the war on drugs is if they change their objective, and instead focus on aggressive education, legalisation and regulation of drugs in a similar way to alcohol, and perhaps some strict(er) controls on some of the more addictive or dangerous substances.

For the love of god I hope someone with half a brain gets in a high enough political position to make a difference in my lifetime

 

[madmick19]

theres a really interesting article regarding the use and uptake of new substances and the normalisation process it takes to make it morally undesirable. once a moral message has been put to the public it usually only takes a little bit of maintenance to keep the message alive.... abit why gordian fulde is so hot in the media at the moment- he is doin the govs job for them.

as for the war- most of the war is waged on supply and demand reduction with only harm reduction recieving a smaller slice of the proverbial pie in the grand sceme of things. one thin i have noticed is the bigger gap between abstinance messages and harm reduction messages. it would appear that successive governments have forgotten about harm reduction. and currently there is a debate weather harm reduction is dead.

most harm reduction is actually harm management- such as rehabs, detoxes and maintnenance programs and abstinance messages. there are the few exceptions such as ravesafe, and peer user groups.

 

[MindlessBilly]

I dont think that the reason there is so many shitty pills around is due to the fact the war on drugs is winning but more due to the fact that things like BZP, 4mmc etc are easier to obtain and the profit margin is bigger. The people who control the markets dont give a fuck about other people getting high but they do care what will get them the largest amount of money with the least effort.

Sure less people may be buying pills these days but that is more because the quality is shit due to these greedy people, not the laws that restrict them. Once they realize they cant sell utter shit to people which seems to be slowly happening as most people i talk to are not very interested in pills anymore the market may pick up and MDMA pills will slowly start to surface more & more.

Honestly there is no chance that the war on drugs is winning people are taking drugs at a younger age compared to ten years ago (atleast from what i can see anyway)

I dont think you can say the war on drugs is winning because less people are taking pills, most of these people have moved on to other drugs where they get more bang for their buck & with the ever rising price of alcohol this is going to continue.

 

[the_puppy]

Indeed. The demand for pills by young people (including myself) seems to be increasing. Its so high that people can go to clubs and sell junk because there are always people looking.

I only starting using MDMA this year, and i've probably 'tried' it around 10 different times.

out of those 10, 1 lots were piperazines (not nice) another lot suspected MDA, been sold duds 3-4 more times and had true MDMA maybe 5-6 times total. In the last week i have been sold 8 bunk pills pressed with concrete powder, from a friend of a friend, and dud caps from another friend of a friend. All i was after was a good time at a festival.

My choice of employment means that if i was to be caught with anything and be charged my career would be over. This combined with being constantly ripped off has made me choose not to indulge anymore. Sniffer dogs roaming everywhere, police searching in the streets (I was searched last year with nothing on me) plus police seizures day after day make me think that they are starting to win the war on some drugs such as MDMA which are more difficult to create/grow than others.

I definantly wanted to expiremnt with MDMA a little more, but I guess I wont be. Ill never forget the feeling of complete euphoria, empathy and peacefulness to the sun-setting over 20,000 people when Armin Van Buuren played a summer event at the Gold Coast this year.

At least I can have a joint every now and again and know what im getting before hand.

 

[TekRa]

I think like anything it comes and goes. We still hear about the sudden plummet in heroin availability in the early 2000's, yet by all accounts it's climbing again, I think we're probably seeing something similar for MDMA at the moment (although hopefully with a more immediate conclusion, I don't want to wait a decade for decent MDMA to become common again).

I can only speculate about the cause of such a sudden fall in availability, but I'd imagine it has a lot less to do with local factors than it does to do with international ones. By all accounts the same process began in Europe 2 or 3 years back, and America seems to be following in suit. If I had to make a (far from educated) guess, it would be that some precursor or another has become tightly restricted in the relevant countries, causing a reduction in what can be produced and leading to heavier substitution and contamination in the pill market.

As for meth, if there's been a drop off in availability I haven't noticed it. I'm finding the stuff just as easily as ever (which isn't to say it falls out of the sky, but I can usually locate the stuff) and paying identical prices to what I was in late 07 when I first started using it.

The reverse is true for a lot of drugs. Ketamine popularity seems to have skyrocketed, just as an example, it's much cheaper without a drop in quality and is being used by a far less restricted cross section than it was a few years back. Pharmaceutical opiates have taken off as well, nobody except the drug nerds even knew what oxy was 2 years ago, yet it seems to be common knowledge these days and very much in demand.

Just out of interest, what state are you in?

 

[leigh86]

^ Good point.

Why would chef A continue to risk running into LE, and pay extra, on hard to find MDMA precursors when chef B is buying his chemical straight off the internet and selling it in pills for just as much? I think money plays a very big part in this. As time goes on and demand falls due to lack of quality, all chefs will have to start cooking up a real meal for people to start ordering again.

 

[JoshE]

This "war on drugs" is immoral idiocy. I believe the handling of it in a criminal way is never going to work, Prohibition of alcohol didn't work in America, why should prohibition of other drugs that people want work anywhere else?

All sorts of solutions are put forward, but as more and more experienced people recognize, there cannot be total elimination, only reduction..The "war on drugs" is a failure, it is a war on the public and is unjust.

People who have serious hardcore drug problems need help not punishment. People who choose safer soft drugs such as cannabis should just be left alone. It is not up to the government to regulate people's personal choices, especially in the privacy of their own homes, as long as they aren't causing harm to people.

 

[Crankinit]

Just out of interest, what state are you in?

I reside in South Australia, though my comments are from my experience both here, in my previous home state of Brisbane, and my previous previous home state of NSW (not that I took drugs back then, but I keep in touch with people there and fly over occasionally).

 

[drug_mentor]

I don't think they are winning at all or that it is even a remote possibility they could ever win. In my mind the lack of MDMA has more to do with better profit margins on them pressing other shite and the newer drug users willingness to consume such crap. The ecstasy market is kind of unique because a lot of people fall in love with ecstasy and go hard on it until they "lose the magic" and are done with it for the most part. That is why the less educated users make up a huge portion of the E market so its easy to fool them and the big time drug traffickers make more by increasing their profit margins substantially and losing a few of the more savvy customers than they do by keeping us and making a lot less by selling MDMA.

I haven't noticed a decline in meth availability, it seems there has been slight decline in quality but nothing major and very high quality is around but it is costing top dollar.

Plenty of other drugs seem to be taking off like ketamine, acid, prescription drugs, heroin, cocaine and RC's to name a few. Then you have cannabis and G which seem to be as popular today as they were a year or so ago, not really any more or less so.

I think its easy to look at the E market and think that the Government is winning but if you look at alot of other drugs it is levelling out, plus like I said earlier I think our Government has sweet fuck all to do with pill quality these days.

 

[marley]

The Truth

The authorities are no more winning the 'war' than us...it is the entrepreneurial 'crooks' out to make a quick dollar that are coming out on top. Like any war, even those you consider to be your allies have their own agendas...Perhaps we should begin to view the war as 'us vs. them - vs. those who we think are on our side'.

While it is true it is becoming harder to obtain precursor chemicals, they are, and always will be, available. Those once 'courageous' and 'enlightened' individuals, with the 'knowledge and ability' to create magic, who we considered to be on our allies, are no more.

From the modern day chemist to the dealer...it is not longer a case of a 'rebellious' and/or 'enlightened' counter culture (the hippie ideals are long dead), it is simple economics. The credo of our new enemy - "Buy cheap and sell for a premium - Safety is always second to profit." The misguided authorities continue to clamp down on the well known and (to a degree) studied, chemicals, and turn a blind eye to the endless plague of mystery cocktails of research chemicals - right now I'm coming down off a few days of 'Herbal Incense' and 'Bath Salts'...I feel enlightened, and at the same time confused, horrible, disgusted, and dirty. I consume this shit because I'm sujegated to Work Place Drug Testing. I crave intellectual expansion, empathy, and an altered state of being, not cheap, risky, dangerous thrills. I'm an intellectual, not a junkie. I have a professional, secure job, with a solid income. I have a great family, beautiful partner, and friends. I desire to explore that which the main stream is oblivious to. I'm proud with the knowledge I've gained, the visual beauties I've experienced, the enlightenment, contentment, and love and empathy I feel for fellow man. I hate the stigma..I hate 'doing drugs'...I hate the fact I may be risking my health ingesting 'bath salts' that are specifically labelled "Not for human consumption - do not use as a snuff"...yet use the marketing imagery of a rolled up 50 pound note and fine white powder; obviously suggesting I rail this 'mysterious cocktail'. I'm both proud and disgusted - the ultimate love hate.

The true 'War' is nothing more than Taxes. Fucking charge me more for my land, water, and electricity, TAKE IT ALL...Create bullshit fucking taxes...I don't care!!!! DO NOT TAX HUMAN MISERY - PLEASE DON'T PROFIT ON ALCOHOL SALES....PLEASE DON'T PROFIT ON TOBACCO SALES....PLEASE DON'T MAKE A PROFIT WHILE EXPLOITING MY HEALTH...MY LIFE..MY FAMILY AND FRIENDS. Tax CLEAN MDMA...Tax Cannabis....open your fucking eyes! YOU ARE KILLING US!!!!

 

[acidprime]

.PLEASE DON'T MAKE A PROFIT WHILE EXPLOITING MY HEALTH...MY LIFE..MY FAMILY AND FRIENDS. Tax CLEAN MDMA...Tax Cannabis....open your fucking eyes! YOU ARE KILLING US!!!!

Want to know what the standard moralist brainwashed bigot response is to this?

you deserve to die you junkie scum.


no kidding, i see that shit on news comments far to often, sometimes i think the prohibitionists are the evil ones.

 

[marley]

^^ Mate you're spot on ay. I see that shit all the time too.
Makes me pretty sad that people still think this way.

 

[baysieguy1]

dictive or dangerous substances.

For the love of god I hope someone with half a brain gets in a high enough political position to make a difference in my lifetime

Sameira, I need to fix the above for you!


"For the love of god I hope someone with enough balls gets in a high enough political position to make a difference in my lifetime"

There you go, fixed!!!!!!

 

[TekRa]

Want to know what the standard moralist brainwashed bigot response is to this?

you deserve to die you junkie scum.


no kidding, i see that shit on news comments far to often, sometimes i think the prohibitionists are the evil ones.

So true. I really have to stop reading that shit it just gets me all riled up but there is no way to argue with them. They won't listen to reason, or an educated response. Usually their best comeback is "BUT THESE DRUGS ARE ILLEGAL!!!!" Oh of course because the government decided this for us and made them illegal they must be instantly bad. If it didn't make me so angry I would probably just find the whole thing quite comical.

 

[footscrazy]

I think certain substances just tend to go in waves, which can be triggered by many things, lower quality, lower supplies etc Maybe anti drug measures do have some effect on this but all I think it really does is push users of one drug to other drugs.

Also, it depends on your circle and who you know. No one person can really comment on the distribution of drugs in any more than the most general of ways. Meth is just as available (and much better quality than ever before) for some people, as are other drugs, including mdma.

As for heroin, I think it already is more mainstream than perhaps non users realise. Maybe it just seems it's not because it's use is less conspicous - it doesn't tend to be the drug of choice for parties etc. I think it will become even more popular in the future, because of the growing use and knowledge of drugs like oxy etc