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Is Suicide Actually Selfish

bennyZA said:
^^
Fuck it, none of you know me... although I might be surprised. I was a shy kid in high school, then really blossomed in college, but early on in college I was diagnosed with a form of epilepsy which has a mortality rate of about 50% by 50 years old. I have to take harsh meds to control it, and one time I had a never ending seizure and shattered my knee, broke both my shoulders and tore several ligaments and tendons. Over that last 3 years I've had one surgery after the other, with little success. Basically my job is to see doctors... and I'm in soo much pain and I can't get pain meds, despite being in so much pain, because I abuse them and my doctors know it. I can't really walk, it's difficult for me to use my arms other than for mundane tasks (and I used to be really into hiking and back packing as well as playing hockey), and the epilepsy meds are eating me up. The side effects are terrible.
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Oh man, bennyZA, I cannot even begin to fathom what all you are enduring. I am really sorry to hear about your condition, the lack of effective treatment/cure and maybe some unsympathetic doctors as well. While it is certainly understandable that they are reticent to prescribe the pain meds you need because of abuse, there are many ways to deal with that and still keep your pain managed. I hope that improves for you at least.

I just saw an amazing movie about a man whose physical life had been severely compromised by a paragliding accident. It's called the Intouchables (French movie). If you can, check it out--it's pretty inspiring.

I'm here anytime you might feel like having someone just to talk to. While I can't claim to ever know your particular kind of pain (physical or mental) I am no stranger to having my life shattered and having to rebuild hope, trust, my concepts of happiness, etc. I feel like I have made some good progress in the last year and I've got a good sympathetic ear. PM me anytime if you feel that would help.<3
 
no one has to die

^and that's a pessimists viewpoint

anything can be rationalized as bad or good or anything in-between
 
No, it's not. Every act originates from self.
Let's say you desire to get a glass of water. You get some water, yo.
Let's say you desire to make someone laugh because you'll get sex. You try to make them laugh, yo.
Let's say you desire to make someone laugh because you want them to be happy. You try to make them laugh, yo. This might seem selfless, but if you didn't have the desire for them to be happy you wouldn't do it.
And even if it was/is pessimistic, so what? He can't be pessimistic? You just wanna be a detective or something?
Everyone has to die, it's sort of this unwritten contract that you're destined to die before you're alive.
Yes, and no. Everything is relative, sure. But, once somebody holds onto a notion, you can't just force them to change their perspective. No matter how much you try to persuade them otherwise, they may be resolute.
All I'm saying man, is that although your statement has some truth, the totality of it is wrong. And that's what matters, right? The end.

As to the OP, I think it's selfish of others to expect you to endure a pain greater than the pain they'd experience from your death. I think it's selfish of others to try to control your being.
If man owns but one thing, it's his being.
Your parents had you for selfish reasons, knowing full well that you were going to die.
You do not owe the control of your existence to someone else. It is yours.
 
You change the very facet when you think like this. I had to go get help. I was on the edge of insanity and I never wanted to kill myself after I got saved in 06. What I'm trying to say is that, I'm talking to you right now and yes I don't know you but it would sting to hear of your passing. I was in the psych ward where ppl had the same problems. one guy had a brain injury. And he said I wouldn't wish this on anyone. I fear God so much that I have a phobia of Him and He is my maker. It is so painful to think God would throw you in Hell and I live everyday thinking at any moment I'm going to be thrown in the lake of fire. P;s the moral of this is. Have faith because your taking what is sturnly God's and putting into your own hands. Pls anyone who reads this it's for him so forgive me if my faith has spilled out a litl.
 
sonicwhite said:
I fear God so much that I have a phobia of Him and He is my maker. It is so painful to think God would throw you in Hell and I live everyday thinking at any moment I'm going to be thrown in the lake of fire.
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Wow, my heart breaks for you, you need serious help, there used to be a website called "battered sheep" that helped out people who had been messed up by religion this badly, not sure if it still exists.

PM me if you want and I can give you some links to some great philosophy talks that may really help you.
You will be amazed at how many incredibly different ways there are of looking at life that will heal those horrible christian wounds.
 
naturalsux said:
I think its totally selfish since your aren't thinking of the lives your destroying. They suffer more than you can imagine. If you don't care, that's selfish in my opinion.
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So it's not selfish for others to force you to live a miserable, painful life, being unable to ever be happy, having to put a smiling mask on every day?


Both sides are selfish in their motivations, the family/friends don't want to feel sad about you being gone.
The suicidal person just wants the pain/boredom of living to stop.


I have thought about taking my own life for a long time, researched methods to choose one that would be effective and painless.
In late July I bought 2 helium tanks, some tubing and a CPAP mask, hooked the mask and tubing to the helium tanks.
Then opened up the tanks' valves, put on the mask, laid down and breathed deep.

After lying there for a good 30 minutes I gave up, hadn't passed out, not even close, and didn't even get a squeaky voice from the helium; I read that party store helium tanks are made pretty badly, might have missed a leak too.
It was very disappointing.

About a week after I researched and planned another method, ordered some Potassium Ferrocyanide and planned to use it to produce Cyanide gas, just huff it after.

Was sent to a hospital by my folks (was living alone but worked with them), then to a psyche ward for a bit then a rehab center.

I still get feelings of just wanting to end it, two sides pulling at me, one to off myself, the other to try and find happiness.
The suicidal part is generally more prominent, but I just tell myself that is always an option if I fail at finding anything to enjoy/love/etc.


I've learned a bit being in rehab, letting feelings flow better, talk about my emotions and such, it actually helps a bit.
But you have to decide you are ready to try and feel better, which in itself is a very difficult thing to do for someone deeply depressed.

To OP, good luck, I hope you find a path out of your pain, better if it's a living one, but in the end it's your decision.
 
i think that depends on the situation. it can be selfish if the loved ones actually care about you and try to help and really need you. if theres noone left like that, you could hardly call that selfish but possibly still unnecessary. i think many people kill themselves impulsively, not thinking straight, what hole theyre leaving behind or even how they might feel next week/month. also, there usually would be a handful of alternatives. where they tried out? its impossible to say if a suicide is a "legit" or "selfish" option just because someone writes he wants to die. its a disease and what happens happens but ive seen some pretty unneeded, impulsive suicides which ripped deep holes into their loves ones. and id call that selfish. but mostly unnecessary and tragic. i can see why some people are simply beyond that and actually thought things through hard tho.
 
I would not use the term selfish, because its negative and irrelevant if you look at the grand, cosmic scheme. The opposite of a selfish act is a selfless act. Suicide is not a lot of things, but one thing it definitely is, is an act of self-control. You take the wheel, you steer the ship into the swell. Ive had friends and neighbors that killed themselves, ive been depressed and entertained the thought itself at times. its easy to feel out of control and want to end the suffering. but dont. embrace the suffering.
all 7 billion people in this world suffer. it doesnt matter if youre rich, poor, gay, korean, young, experienced or enlightened. stand on the edge and let your life open up; love yourself, or atleast like yourself, and the feelings will be reciprocated, that is a promise. mark twain wrote something along the lines of "happiness and sanity are mutually exclusive." i.e. you can have one, but not the other.
 
trees_please said:
stand on the edge and let your life open up
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It is the most rewarding place in the world to stand, though it is scary as hell. When my son's life ended, I understood what that edge meant. It was as clear as day that I had two choices only: to shut down or to open up. Choosing to open when every cell of your body wants to shut down is an amazingly physical act. My heart was broken open by circumstances I had no control over; choosing to let it continue opening to life was a choice. In the midst of a nightmare, a moment of learning.
 
yeah i mean some people will take that literally, but i mean it as a metaphor. you can be at a bus stop or on a boat in a lake. at a bar or at your dad's birthday party. ive always struggled with anxiety and recently depression. but its all about how you process those feelings. because in the end none of that shit matters, and if you want things to happen for the better you only have one choice. open up. being mindful at all times. you will see and feel a difference
 
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hey guys im cool now just got better 5 days ago including today, its weird to have wanted death, last week and for over a month feeling nothing but pain,,it sucks so bad theres no way to describe the feeling except i felt worthless that word summed it up,,man im 39 i had a family just going thru life , well it came to halt july 20 or so.
MAN i fkn lost everything, atleast it felt like it!
my girlfriend moved to my mom-n grandmas house mom moved in 5 years ago. she drinks thats my problem w/her., she took my family away from me so she could keep living her drunk lifestyle,(im a pill popper was now on mmt,thats a bad storie as well.) so grandma got ot of rehab hospital for hurting n being old,mom got drunk n used to it for the 6 months gma was at the home.my gf took care of gma in the home at 5-8 everynight, so that was bad enough, but its my grandma shes helpin,shes her at home nurse, cus my mother cant do shit,,,man i dont like her much anymore,we dont talk since this started. i hate her..

so when she got home from the rehab place, gf moved in, left me n my son to b, i was ok, man me n boy bonded bigtime, 2 weeks later after i hit a mailbox like 10 days b4, (broke my winshield, no1 was in car w/me,i was kinda xanyed out i guess?,,,she took my boy n we broke up,,wooooo i was devistated,i was ok on the 7th day i had money ,we became friends again n lovers , and a family they started stayn here few days aweek ,i was soooo alone man i wantd to die every frekin day, even tho I had them back in my life I wasn’t whole,,the pain wouldnt go,i was losing my place my dog n cat cus she left fuk it was horrible!!
,i love her , she me aswell n my boy is the glue to our 20 year relationship,,

..my mom couldnt buy their love she tried n did for cpl weeks till they realized im dad damit im the man i take care of all,i had a very rough time on pills this last 5+ years ,last 3 i was sick 1/2 the time, so i went to treatment n i am in it now, n was while this shit was going on, so mmt couldnt stop the pain, it felt like falling off a building n never stoping it hurt......
6 weeks of hell i lost 30 lbs in 30 days,i loked like a skeleton

come on man, y people always testing me, so it got real bad n real dark i quit my longtime job, did 1ooo dollors worth of drugs n 6 weeks later ,broke almost di end it many nights b4 but somehow I survived, wow I stonger than I thought.

i asked 4 my job back,,,n got it so i felt saved since last thur at 11am,,man is that amazing ,all i needed was my job n a paycheck everyweek..so i can tak care of myself then my family
just 5 days ago i was in hell, im eatin lots now, man its weird ,i dont no how to explain the change ,it was like a exercisim, the demons left the minute i spoke to my boss, so i ended up taking 5 weeks off work, lost all my acounts and im new at work but im a bad ass,ill make it.
i have to dig out of this rut which means moving in a month cus i owe to much here, im taking my last month i paid when i moved in, now i have to find the place ill lay my head 4 the next few years or a temp place 1st,i dont no yet> but i have a futuer thats the point i guess?
n i gett my son when we feel like it ,weekends n a day a week she comes to, alls good, i hope u guys can find the light. kyle


,
 
Like someone said every act is selfish in some way. Suicide is selfish because you may well be getting to leave the game early to rest while others stuck through that shit, but in the same manner how is it not entirely if not wholly selfish to want another to exist simply for your sake? You can pretend you want them to live for themselves but at the end of the day its always because your far to scared to see/finally know what life would be like if they didn't exist any longer in it. Your pretty much causing a being thats possibly in pain that you couldn't even fathom 24/7 down <snip>, to me there aren't many acts which can exude such personal/despicable selfishness. Its also selfish to not be able to understand that a person is in so much pain that they actually don't want to exist on this planet any longer, all they pray for is that inevitable return to the dirt, the call to come home. Thats an exceptionally powerful feeling to understand, not wanting to live means for most people actually overcoming basic instinct to survive......
 
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I think it's selfish of the people around to guilt you into staying. I'm a huge proponent of Right to Die, and I will abandon my body eventually. Thing is, it's not because I'm depressed; it's an ideological pursuit slash experiment. I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with suicide though, even if it's escapism.
 
I fear God so much that I have a phobia of Him and He is my maker. It is so painful to think God would throw you in Hell and I live everyday thinking at any moment I'm going to be thrown in the lake of fire. P;s the moral of this is. Have faith because your taking what is sturnly God's and putting into your own hands.
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That's literally the least likely reason I would ever use to justify staying alive, if there is a god, it is this god person you speak of who did all this shit to me.
 
i know where ur coming from BENNY, sit back relax n see what yr life is missing, try 2 get it back then youll b saved , TRY BRO ,, u hav 2 try hard to leave this fuked up world,,,, but dude,,,, try n stay , put a little effort twards living,, i was u i needed my job back to feel normal , what is different in your life ? ,
 
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