Is rehab really necessary?

[DaysNDaze]

I have been on both sides of this fence. After a 5 year daily percocet addiction (other opiates too, but mainly percocet), I was able to quit and didn't look back for 9 months. No rehab, no counselling, just will power. Then, my ex boyfriend came over on one of my nights off (he had been couch surfing ever since we had broke up, so it wasn't unusual for him to show up and ask for money or food or whatever) except this time, he had a bunch of opiates with him. At first I said no but then the little devil on my shoulder kept whispering "just once, it won't hurt". It was almost like the first time. I've been chasing that ever since. Its been about 4 and a half years and I'm still using opiates daily.

This time is different. Everytime I try to quit on my own it never works. My environment doesn't help the situation, living with an agoraphobic boyfriend with extreme social anxiety.

I've been looking into possibly trying to get into a government funded rehab. I have a full time job, but I know if I went to the doctor and explained the situation, they'd write me a note for at least a couple of months, at which point I could take the money I normally spend on drugs and pay my rent for 2 months.

Do I really need to do this? Or is this just a matter of not really wanting it and thats why I can't quit on my own, because I don't truly want to? I am tired of living like this and want to be sober me again. I live in Canada and I've tried addictions counselling. They put you on a waiting list to be seen, and I usually end up feeding my addiction more during that time and saying f*ck it when they finally do call. Suboxone and methadone is also out of the question. I refuse to trade one addiction for the other.

Any thoughts, input, opinions would be appreciated.

 

[withlove]

rehab can be really good if you are struggling with getting off drugs and getting initial sober time.

by no means do you have to go that route, but i think it helps to fully devote some time making the changes you want to make.


also, while you don't want to use subs or methadone, a quick taper with them if you dont go to rehab isnt trading one addiction for another, it just eases the transition.


(i have been to a bunch of govt funded and private rehabs in canada, (am canadian). if you have any questions about some of them feel free to shoot me a pm)

 

[dopemaster]

In terms of staying completely clean I would go with AA which I prefer or NA. I have had problems with both drugs and alcohol but drugs mainly opiates.

I can't tell you how hard it is to stay off opiates so building a support system and using it is what most people need.

I kicked off at home mainly because I didn't qualify for detox and every time I had a seizure and that doea happen with opiates in extreme cases I was sent to the ER but since no ambulance.... It was kinda danger. So kicking at home I could take what I needed and I had strong incentive, I would go back to jail and detoxed there but at least they did something about the seizures and eventually opted to keep me on benzos and even some pain medication. My case is rather extreme though.

So I have kickes at home and straight up if I didn't go to AA as soon as I wasn't a diarrhea bomb that bad I relapsed right to shooting up heroin and heavy duty opiates and such.

AA did me alot of good but outpatient drug treatment is what really worked for me. I didn't have to abandon my responsibilities and I was able to keep at my hobbies and work but I make my own hours and its side income.

I have nothing against rehab or methadone and wish I could get in but I get kicked out for being a seizure risk and don't qualify anywhere in my area and am not free to travel.

I suppose outpatient and many veru grave reasons to qiit was what it took. If I relapse I will be going to jail for a couple years.

 

[Sixxam]

I'm interested in any info you might have... Canada related.

 

[withlove]

I'm interested in any info you might have... Canada related.

I sent you a pm.

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

Yes, rehab is necessary for people who cannot quit or abstain from using drugs on their own. This is not a bad thing to ask for help, and it's nothing to be ashamed of. You at least need a support network, and a lot of people get this from rehab and/or AA/NA.

Rehab is also good since you are separating yourself from the drugs, dealers, drug buddies, etc. and the environment where you were into using drugs. A lot of rehabs have therapists or counselors who specialize in drug addiction and other issues we addicts face and they can help you get to the root of the issues you are having like why you started using in the first place, how to control urges or cravings you get for drugs and not to use them, how to deal with emotions that were shut off or shut down while you were using that are now flooding back, tools for staying sober and clean, etc.

In the case of benzo and alcohol withdrawal it's necessary to have doctors and other medical professionals monitor you as quitting on your own and trying to taper on your own for both drugs can be dangerous and many people have died from attempting this.

There are people who wind up doing DIY opiate withdrawal but they do it cold turkey so they remember how bad it was getting off pills, dope, etc. and how horrible it would be if they did decide to use drugs again. Good luck.

 

[RedLeader]

I don't believe rehab is necessary, but it's extremely difficult to get clean (nearly impossible in my case) without an abrupt change in people, places and things. Rehab offers this, but it's not the only way.

 

[Dr.Mambo]

I was in a halfway/sober living house which provided the same counseling rehab does. It didn't do me a lot of good except piss me off. But if you're serious about recovery and work a program it can be really good

 

[Dr.Mambo]

Also. In my nine months in a sober living house I just ended up finding more connections to drugs. Lol a dealer lived right across the street. On not saying all rehabs are like that but from my experience that's how it was.

 

[Squizz1985]

My two trips to rehab were a joke. Both took place in 2007. First, I went to a local recovery home. The only place in all of Canada that doesn't utilize the 12-Step model, and has the highest suicide rate in all of Canada. It wasn't a very good experience, needless to say. I wanted to leave so badly, but everyone thought it was a good idea if I stayed. I got absolutely NOTHING out of that stay. People were smuggling drugs in left, right, and center. Not to mention, using drugs in their rooms, etc. They didn't even do any sort of pre-screen drug testing or anything. I mean really? How much does a urine test cost? $20.....maybe? Every other rehab tests you when you arrive. And if they don't, they should.

My second trip to rehab wasn't so bad, but it was on skid row at the Salvation Army. And it was court-ordered. I had to tough it out there for 40 days in-patient or it was back to the slammer. Thankfully, the people who worked there were really nice and my stay went rather smoothly compared to the first rehab. Still though, it sucked. There's nothing worse than being in rehab, when you don't really want to be there. At least at this facility, we were allowed to work out, and have basketball/volleyball games, which were very fun. We even started what I liked to call the "JBA: Junkie Basketball Association" HAHA. We even had a few big baseball tournaments. It wasn't all THAT bad, but still there were some trying times. Especially when I was elected to be "floor monitor".

I suppose if you really need a change of environment, in-patient can do the trick. Otherwise, just go to 12-step groups AA/NA meetings aren't really that bad. I've slept with more girls from meetings than I ever did at the bar. I mean, what else is there left to do? HAHA. I should also mention, I did have 3.5 years clean until Labor Day of this year. But partying of late, has been a lot of fun, so I don't really intend on stopping any time soon.

But that being said, thinking about those experiences at The Salvation Army makes me want to go back there. I don't need to, I have a good job, car, etc........but something about helping those people really made me feel good. I just think it's very disingenuous of me to promote sobriety when I'm still partying.

Anyhow, to answer your question: Is rehab necessary? No. Absolutely not. It can be beneficial to get out of a bad environment, but for the most part, what goes on a rehab is basically what you're going to see/hear at any 12-step group you attend. If you are severely addicted to opiates, or benzos, it would be a good idea though. Just to get back out in the real world with a clear head.

 

[DaysNDaze]

My two trips to rehab were a joke. Both took place in 2007. First, I went to a local recovery home. The only place in all of Canada that doesn't utilize the 12-Step model, and has the highest suicide rate in all of Canada. It wasn't a very good experience, needless to say. I wanted to leave so badly, but everyone thought it was a good idea if I stayed. I got absolutely NOTHING out of that stay. People were smuggling drugs in left, right, and center. Not to mention, using drugs in their rooms, etc. They didn't even do any sort of pre-screen drug testing or anything. I mean really? How much does a urine test cost? $20.....maybe? Every other rehab tests you when you arrive. And if they don't, they should.

My second trip to rehab wasn't so bad, but it was on skid row at the Salvation Army. And it was court-ordered. I had to tough it out there for 40 days in-patient or it was back to the slammer. Thankfully, the people who worked there were really nice and my stay went rather smoothly compared to the first rehab. Still though, it sucked. There's nothing worse than being in rehab, when you don't really want to be there. At least at this facility, we were allowed to work out, and have basketball/volleyball games, which were very fun. We even started what I liked to call the "JBA: Junkie Basketball Association" HAHA. We even had a few big baseball tournaments. It wasn't all THAT bad, but still there were some trying times. Especially when I was elected to be "floor monitor".

I suppose if you really need a change of environment, in-patient can do the trick. Otherwise, just go to 12-step groups AA/NA meetings aren't really that bad. I've slept with more girls from meetings than I ever did at the bar. I mean, what else is there left to do? HAHA. I should also mention, I did have 3.5 years clean until Labor Day of this year. But partying of late, has been a lot of fun, so I don't really intend on stopping any time soon.

But that being said, thinking about those experiences at The Salvation Army makes me want to go back there. I don't need to, I have a good job, car, etc........but something about helping those people really made me feel good. I just think it's very disingenuous of me to promote sobriety when I'm still partying.

Anyhow, to answer your question: Is rehab necessary? No. Absolutely not. It can be beneficial to get out of a bad environment, but for the most part, what goes on a rehab is basically what you're going to see/hear at any 12-step group you attend. If you are severely addicted to opiates, or benzos, it would be a good idea though. Just to get back out in the real world with a clear head.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

I've always been so leery about the AA/Na model... Studies, research and general consensus is its the best way to quit, but I just can't see it working for me...

 

[DaysNDaze]

I've started a taper method on my own.
Went from 60mg of oxy to 40 mg to 20mg today.
The plan is to take 10mg tomorrow and the day after.
Then, buy 10 percocets and eat only 2 per day for 3 days, then 1 for 2 days, then half of one until they are gone.
Next, immodium for a couple days.
I think this will help with physical withdrawal ... Then I'll just have to bite the bullet and tough it out.

 

[cj]

It depends. What the facility has to offer. If they are just a 12 step indoctrination place then no not worth it. If they offer 1 on 1 counseling everyday with small group counseling included and some good activities thrown in then maybe. It also depends on what you can afford and your insurance can cover.

The field of phycology is moving to outpatient community based practice in general as it has shown better long term results they say so keep that in mind. Also keep in mind the really low success rates rehabs offer.

 

[Stargazer]

For me personally-,yes. Though Ive never had a medically supervised detox-I think its a wiser idea. Both times I detoxed cold turkey off of morphine and heroin - I had seizures.

I also need time removed from all of it until Im on steady legs so I have a fighting chance. I think its varies for each of us.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I've started a taper method on my own.
Went from 60mg of oxy to 40 mg to 20mg today.
The plan is to take 10mg tomorrow and the day after.
Then, buy 10 percocets and eat only 2 per day for 3 days, then 1 for 2 days, then half of one until they are gone.
Next, immodium for a couple days.
I think this will help with physical withdrawal ... Then I'll just have to bite the bullet and tough it out.

This is a good plan for getting off, but of course the challenges mostly come with maintaining your sobriety once off. The majority of the time rehab isn't so good for doing this. Have you any thoughts about this?

Buprenorphine and methadone DO NOT constitute "trading one addiction for another." First of all, you're already dependent, and buprenorphine and methadone, when administered and used properly (which is not uncommon and easy to do), do not somehow make this worse. If anything, statistically speaking, ORT is very, very effective at reducing dependency.

This kind of thinking, trading one addiction for another, is nothing but the ignorance of those who do not understand anything about modern medicine. You cannot find more effective treatment in the West and this kind of thing, it is the core of many a highly effective mode of entering recovery. Don't believe the bullshit stigma that abstinence only communities and twelve step groups like to propagandize about this stuff. It is little but ignorance and rooted in little more than selfishness.

Harsh words, but if you look into it, it's generally what you'll end up finding. Something I find rather pathetic is that ORT has been around over 40 years now, and the popular recovery communities (AA/NA/etc) still vilify the single most effective commonly available treatment for moderate to severe opioid use disorder in North America.

The most effective ways to maintain abstinence from opioids long term is relying on an outpatient based methadone or buprenoprhine treatment program and, while on that program, working with a good therapist and clinicians on how to create or strengthen healthy self care habits and a social support system IRL. ORT is about 150% less expensive than rehabs tend run and have about a 10x higher success rate among long term users than abstinence only based treatment (which is pretty much all you get in most places when it comes to inpatient treatment, which is really, really sad, considering how much better it would work if ORT were integrated into it in any meaningful way). Both state and private based rehabs tend to have very, very poor success rate.

In short, I have to agree very strongly with RedLeader. You don't even want to hear about my experiences with the treatment industry, particularly with the whole abstinent only crowd... It is VERY difficult to do this on one's own as you pointed out. And the hard part isn't getting sober, it is staying sober (which is a big reason abstinence based rehabs tend to fail so miserably at helping the vast, vast majority of people (read - over 90%) lead healthier, more meaningful lives). In rehab, it's enough of a struggle to put up with all the shit of those surrounding you, both the people who work in the field and the clientele, and difficult to really be able to begin to get into what has lead you to your place with harmful substance use.

Now, on their own, methadone and buprenorphine won't accomplish this for you either. However, they will allow you to live normal, functional lives in the real world, not confined to some treatment center, in a way that allows you to immediately start working on creating an effective support system for yourself in the real world vis a vis putting your efforts into recovery and wellbeing related communities, your profession, education, positive relationships with loved ones, and clinical services like a general practitioner and therapist(s).

The best part is that they make it possible for you to develop relationships with people who aren't drug users or struggling with substance use disorder - generally people healthier than we are in very early recovery. Such people provide us with the role models for long term success that are very hard to find within most recovery communities, which tend to attract folks with the biggest most damaging issues, damaging not only to themselves but to their peers as well if they're not very careful.

The more tools you have to work with, the better your odds are when it comes to a path of sustainable, long term recovery. Don't discount one of the best tools out there just because of the anecdotes of folks who know very, very little about what they are speaking of. If all you want to do is get off drugs, a structure environment like rehab can be useful for that, but unfortunately not much else.

 

[aihfl]

I've slept with more girls from meetings than I ever did at the bar. I mean, what else is there left to do? HAHA.

Thirteenth stepping is despicable and it's not funny.

I've done residential rehab twice. The first time I stayed sober about a month, the second time less than a week. The question is, even if you do go and do residential rehab and remove yourself from your current situation, what happens after rehab? The first time I was discharged from residential was shortly after my ex-wife and I had separated. I was living alone and was accountable to no one. The fact that I made it nearly a month is rather miraculous in hindsight. The second time, I moved into a small shitbox garage apartment and again, living by myself I was accountable to no one and lasted less than a week. What comes after is just as important as the initial decision on whether to go or not. If your post-rehab situation isn't healthy, then actually going to rehab is moot. I seem to do better when I'm able to do outpatient and can retain some semblance of structure in my life and am able to continue my daily routines with minimal disruptions.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Thirteenth stepping is despicable and it's not funny.

Thank you aihfl. It's really sad how little oversight their is among the twelve step community in particular in dealing with (real) predators.

I've done residential rehab twice. The first time I stayed sober about a month, the second time less than a week. The question is, even if you do go and do residential rehab and remove yourself from your current situation, what happens after rehab? The first time I was discharged from residential was shortly after my ex-wife and I had separated. I was living alone and was accountable to no one. The fact that I made it nearly a month is rather miraculous in hindsight. The second time, I moved into a small shitbox garage apartment and again, living by myself I was accountable to no one and lasted less than a week. What comes after is just as important as the initial decision on whether to go or not. If your post-rehab situation isn't healthy, then actually going to rehab is moot. I seem to do better when I'm able to do outpatient and can retain some semblance of structure in my life and am able to continue my daily routines with minimal disruptions.

I have also found outpatient to be far more effective. The current research backs up our experiences. Inpatient IME isn't really good for much except having acute psychiatric issues managed or providing a sometimes safe, sometimes structured place to dry out.

 

[Stargazer]

I am pro methadone. Ive witnessed people do a 180 - from black and blue emaciated heroin addicts to productive, well-adjusted individuals. Its really beautiful to see.

The reason I wasn't happy during my 5yrs on methadone is I should've been split dosing. I was on 120mg- so drink 80mg in the am, then the remaining 40mg at dinner time. I was sick every single day by 4pm. Seriously, it was really bad I am an aberrant metabolizer- you find it out from a blood test. I just happened to be at a shitty clinic that didn't give afuck about the pts.

But I know for a fact-methadone saves lives.

 

[Jabberwocky]

That's really unfortunate 10Years

When I was on methadone I found I was much happier on a dose of like 20-40mg than 60-90mg. But then again, I don't have a fast metabolism (it anything it is slightly slower than average).

 

[DoctorMolecule]

I just left my home town after a slip on H, living with my mother in law, making meetings (be careful of those predators!!!) trying to eat well walk 5-10 miles a day. Smoking a little herb with the mother in law (she moderates the doses). I miss my wife , but she'll be here on Friday. Thank God!!! Until then it's just one day at a time. Granted if you need to detox that's life and dealt shit there. As for suboxone or ORT no experience I've got my kit of herbs and teas to boost the mood and healing.