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Is opiod addiction the worst addiction?

Always wondered what barbs felt like, even wiki psychonaut states Barbes are much more addictive then benzo's .
Oh god, they are. Even the least abusable barbiturates (eg diethylbarbitone) way exceed any benzo I've experienced, in terms of abuse potential. Things like amylobarbitone & quinalbarbitone (the two commonly used for vet euthanasia) have an unbelievable abuse potential.
 
Always wondered what barbs felt like, even wiki psychonaut states Barbes are much more addictive then benzo's .
Like whiskey in a pill, kinda.
What was good about barbs was how strongly they potentiated alcohol. ('Course, that's what was bad about them too)
One red or yellow before a night of drinking was enough to get wasted. If whiskey is involved, you better be careful.
 
Most people simply have no idea of just how destructive barbiturates are. From what I read, glutethimide, echlorvynol, clomethiazole and the monoureides are similar. Tolerance means that the effective dose increases, but the fatal dose does not increase so the thereputic window closes.

Let's face it, Seconal is still in the BNF and is only prescribed to people who are already dependant on barbiturates. The abstinence syndrome is so severe that people who must now be very old were likely prescribed barbiturates when they were in their 20s or 30s and it proved so difficult and dangerous to get people clean... that doctors simply continue to prescribe.

Just a few months ago an elderly guy told me that their was & is a specialist dependence ward at Addanbrookes that is full of people who are STILL trying to stop taking barbiturates and/or clomethiazole. It's voluntary and they use a liquid formulation of the drugs BUT of a person cannot get clean in 12 weeks... they are just kept on their previous prescription.

I have often wondered how dangerous those sulfonylmethyl, trional & tetronal are. Onset was/is so slow that often people take a tablet, don't sleep and then pass out at some point the next day....
 
Oh god, they are. Even the least abusable barbiturates (eg diethylbarbitone) way exceed any benzo I've experienced, in terms of abuse potential. Things like amylobarbitone & quinalbarbitone (the two commonly used for vet euthanasia) have an unbelievable abuse potential.
Years ago I was addicted to fioricet, the migraine pill that has the butabital, caffeine, acetaminophen combo. I was getting scripts or 120 tabs with tons of refills whenever I needed, looking back I can’t believe how much I was taking on top of other things being a 5 foot nothing 115 lbs girl. Anyways long story short something happened that I abruptly had to stop taking them & even though I was taking clonazepam & xanax during that withdrawal I STILL felt like I was going to have a heart attack .. I mean that shit was scary & probably one of the scariest withdrawals I’ve ever had (it’s really weird I actually twitch inside thinking back to that)
 
Totally agree. Opi addiction is like a balance between opis and pain/wds.
Cocaine allways tends to go out of balance, it makes very difficult the idea of stabilization, imposible if you use hard-hitting ROAs. And then what you say about it needing downers.
The only good thing that such addiction has is that it can be abrutly interrupted without the level of misery or danger that opi and other drugs have, but during the active phase of addiction, cocaine is far worse than opiates for sure.

Indeed, but when opi use become chronic so does constipation. Then you are better off changing diet and lifestyle than relying on pills/ edemas forever. Ultimately, only tapering your dose makes a real difference.
Back when I was shooting a gram + a day I never really experienced much constipation. I made sure to stay hydrated, eat a few servings of fruit throughout the day and a salad with dinner. Pretty much kept me regular every day. And I always waited until I took a morning dump before I had my first shot of the day.

Next month will be a year since I broke that habit. I've had a few minor slip ups where I bought a half g but always a few months apart and never used more than 2 days back to back
 
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Most people simply have no idea of just how destructive barbiturates are. From what I read, glutethimide, echlorvynol, clomethiazole and the monoureides are similar. Tolerance means that the effective dose increases, but the fatal dose does not increase so the thereputic window closes.

Let's face it, Seconal is still in the BNF and is only prescribed to people who are already dependant on barbiturates. The abstinence syndrome is so severe that people who must now be very old were likely prescribed barbiturates when they were in their 20s or 30s and it proved so difficult and dangerous to get people clean... that doctors simply continue to prescribe.

Just a few months ago an elderly guy told me that their was & is a specialist dependence ward at Addanbrookes that is full of people who are STILL trying to stop taking barbiturates and/or clomethiazole. It's voluntary and they use a liquid formulation of the drugs BUT of a person cannot get clean in 12 weeks... they are just kept on their previous prescription.

I have often wondered how dangerous those sulfonylmethyl, trional & tetronal are. Onset was/is so slow that often people take a tablet, don't sleep and then pass out at some point the next day....
Barbitone sodium (diethylbarbituric acid, sodium salt), is used as a biological buffer, so an awful lot got up and walked out of the lab with me. Acetaldehyde tetramer and trimer work, but have horrible rebound effects. Chlormethiazole is as abusable as barbs. Ethchlorovynol would be, except for the lingering menthol type aftertaste (1- ethynylcyclohexanol - without the carbamate bit, has an even more pronounced aftertaste)
 
Oh god, they are. Even the least abusable barbiturates (eg diethylbarbitone) way exceed any benzo I've experienced, in terms of abuse potential. Things like amylobarbitone & quinalbarbitone (the two commonly used for vet euthanasia) have an unbelievable abuse potential.
And what about qualudes ? Anything special?
 
Nice, but not as nice as a barbiturate (sort of halfway between a barb an roofies)
I see but there mechanism on gaba receptors is different then barbs or benzo's? I became interested since seeing wolf of Wall Street . Before that i never heard about them , probally most people 😛
 
Like whiskey in a pill, kinda.
What was good about barbs was how strongly they potentiated alcohol. ('Course, that's what was bad about them too)
One red or yellow before a night of drinking was enough to get wasted. If whiskey is involved, you better be careful.
Honestly i doubt its feel anything like alcohol , benzo's don't feel like alcohol at all so why would barbs feel like alcohol (honest question ? Since they hit the same gaba a subs as benzo?
 
In retrospect, some opioids are as bad. Superjunkie was making fentanyl and beta hydroxy fentanyl in the lab and he claimed he was doing so when the lecturer was there. They both ended up with 20 minute habits i.e. they had to IV 5mg+ of fentanyl or 2mg+ of beta hydroxy fentanyl (both has cannulasin their arms). When they were caught, Superjunkie got 10 years, Robojunkie got a large fine and house arrest.

I talked to him a year after his supply stopped and he was still going through the acute phase of withdrawal. The only thing that helped was MXE, interestingly. He said he would have a line at bed time and when he woke, another line... so at least he slept.

I've read of many people who developed such habits commit suicide because their lives were so aweful. Robojunkie told me that no dose of another opioid helped.

I do appreciate that this is at the very edge of opioid abuse but fentanyl does seem to produce an extra level of dependence.

Thomas K. Highsmith who was one of the 2 original clandestine etonitazine manufacturers and when he was caught, he was put onto a LOT of methadone but he killed himself before he went to court. The Russian chemist who was making it lost both hands when a large flask he was holding exploded. I have NO idea what was in it, but I suspect it was something that should not be moved.

For such people, the acetyl ester of R-4066 (a methadone derivative) seems appropriate. It has a biosostere that equates to an N-arylethyl, a T½ of 20.5 hours (allowing it to be given every 2 or 3 days) and it's x212 M in potency. Yes it's costly, but given the small quantities involved and the long duration, the cost is not THAT high. I mean, racemic methadone is only ½M in potency - it's the accumulation that provides it's utility.



So 5.6mg of the above will substitute for 15mg of fentanyl but since it's T½ is so long, it means that people can get on with their lives. It's not that it's a new drug, it was patented in 1978 - so the patent has even run out...

But I see nobody looking at this as an appropriate treatment. Rather thienorphine is being pushed for a US marketing licence.

BTW sorry for the crappy structure draw. If I use 'clean structure, it connects the piperidine and cyclohexane ring together along an edge. But you can see how the piperidine connects to the benzene ring so it's a rigid derivative of the more common 4-phenyl piperidine moiety seen in other compounds. I looked into synthesis and that 3,4-dihydro-2H-spiro[naphthalene-1,4'-piperidine] takes 10 steps from commercially available precursors.... but at scale and optimised, it's extreme potency would make it viable. After all 1g of the compound in the image is worth 530g of methadone (given potency and duration).
 
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In retrospect, some opioids are as bad. Superjunkie was making fentanyl and beta hydroxy fentanyl in the lab and he claimed he was doing so when the lecturer was there. They both ended up with 20 minute habits i.e. they had to IV 5mg+ of fentanyl or 2mg+ of beta hydroxy fentanyl (both has cannulasin their arms). When they were caught, Superjunkie got 10 years, Robojunkie got a large fine and house arrest.

I talked to him a year after his supply stopped and he was still going through the acute phase of withdrawal. The only thing that helped was MXE, interestingly. He said he would have a line at bed time and when he woke, another line... so at least he slept.

I've read of many people who developed such habits commit suicide because their lives were so aweful. Robojunkie told me that no dose of another opioid helped.

I do appreciate that this is at the very edge of opioid abuse but fentanyl does seem to produce an extra level of dependence.

Thomas K. Highsmith who was one of the 2 original clandestine etonitazine manufacturers and when he was caught, he was put onto a LOT of methadone but he killed himself before he went to court. The Russian chemist who was making it lost both hands when a large flask he was holding exploded. I have NO idea what was in it, but I suspect it was something that should not be moved.

For such people, the acetyl ester of R-4066 (a methadone derivative) seems appropriate. It has a biosostere that equates to an N-arylethyl, a T½ of 20.5 hours (allowing it to be given every 2 or 3 days) and it's x212 M in potency. Yes it's costly, but given the small quantities involved and the long duration, the cost is not THAT high. I mean, racemic methadone is only ½M in potency - it's the accumulation that provides it's utility.



So 5.6mg of the above will substitute for 15mg of fentanyl but since it's T½ is so long, it means that people can get on with their lives. It's not that it's a new drug, it was patented in 1978 - so the patent has even run out...

But I see nobody looking at this as an appropriate treatment. Rather thienorphine is being pushed for a US marketing licence.

BTW sorry for the crappy structure draw. If I use 'clean structure, it connects the piperidine and cyclohexane ring together along an edge. But you can see how the piperidine connects to the benzene ring so it's a rigid derivative of the more common 4-phenyl piperidine moiety seen in other compounds. I looked into synthesis and that 3,4-dihydro-2H-spiro[naphthalene-1,4'-piperidine] takes 10 steps from commercially available precursors.... but at scale and optimised, it's extreme potency would make it viable. After all 1g of the compound in the image is worth 530g of methadone (given potency and duration).

Only thing with methadone (moreso methadol esters), is QT prolongation syndrome (why acetylmethadol was withdrawn, despite only requiring a dose every other day). It kills people
 
Honestly i doubt its feel anything like alcohol , benzo's don't feel like alcohol at all so why would barbs feel like alcohol (honest question ? Since they hit the same gaba a subs as benzo?
How do you describe how anything feels? Describe blue. I was taking a shot.

However, now that you mention them, the difference between how benzos feel and how barbs feel might be similar to the difference in how beer feels and how whiskey feels.
But more so, benzos feel a lot different than a barb or even a Placidyl or Doriden.
Many people that liked 'ludes and such didn't like benzos. Said they just put them to sleep.
 
Back when I was shooting a gram + a day I never really experienced much constipation
Yes, I know. When I was using h and short acting opis, constipation was there but it was bareable.
But when you get on long acting opis for maintenance and you push your dose up, gane changes big time.
So report pain patient who have been medicated with any opi around the clock for years on end
 
mean, racemic methadone is only ½M in potency - it's the accumulation that provides it's utility.
Yes, acumulation is the strong point of methadone
But I don't really thing it is 1/2 the potency of morphine, even when acutely dosed, to be honest. I think it is much more potent.
I have seen the same person, a light opi naive woman, both on 5mgs methadone and on little pieces of opium of about 100- 150 mgs, sure containing 10mgs morphine at least and probably more.
She was waaay more fucked and pain free on the 5 methadone. Like no comparation to be had
 
Yes, I know. When I was using h and short acting opis, constipation was there but it was bareable.
But when you get on long acting opis for maintenance and you push your dose up, gane changes big time.
So report pain patient who have been medicated with any opi around the clock for years on end
I don't have any experience with methadone but I've been on bupe for close to 10 years and it doesn't make me constipated at all. Currently on 8mg a day. Same with my best friend he's on the same dose as me. I know both of us have a fast metabolism and we both workout regularly
 
Wow, that is a very good thing. 10 years is more than enough for any undesirable effect to happen, if you had no problem by now you probably never won't.
Chronic constipation is a bitch, and serious cases are even dangerous.
 
I see but there mechanism on gaba receptors is different then barbs or benzo's? I became interested since seeing wolf of Wall Street . Before that i never heard about them , probally most people 😛
Same here, that movie awakened my interest in quaaludes and barbs.

Yeah, barbs are afaik direct agonists at GABA-A while benzos are positive allosteric modulators meaning they depend on endogenous GABA to activate the receptors and can't cause more activation than the biggest amount of endogenous GABA could. The latter seems to be only partially true with stuff like flubromazolam (don't know if I got that correctly) being labelles as more barb-like and with a narrow therapeutic window.
 
Wow, that is a very good thing. 10 years is more than enough for any undesirable effect to happen, if you had no problem by now you probably never won't.
Chronic constipation is a bitch, and serious cases are even dangerous.
I know, I should count my blessings. After reading some of the stories on here with people going 2+ weeks....I don't even wanna think about it.
 
Benzos and booze to me are joint worse - the withdrawals are so dangerous. Opiates are impossible to shake off at least for me - once I knew what that high was like, it was game over, that is what i wanted. As long as I had enough opiates that were clean (say 'safe supply or vast amounts of cash), it would be absolutely manageable. Booze and benzos are not manageable.
 
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