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Is opiate addiction really so bad?

somnilicious said:
Opiate addiction sucks. That's all I've got to say about that.... Lost a lot of good friends. It eventually steals your vitality and traps you in the land of that great , last ditched kick to escape the abyss forever that never came world... Bad news from experience. Lost a lot of good friends.
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Europe is taking a different, more enlightened approach to treating heroin dependence. It doesn't have to be a total wreck if treated like a medical condition.

17051
en.wikipedia.org

Heroin - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Olivia Nicole said:
a trader in the City of London
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I can absolutely guarantee you right now that top brass in the City of London are often on legal supplies of prescription opiates, benzos, and stims from private doctors. There is very little regulation on private prescribing in the UK and private docs are therefore free to act like pill mills. The reason this has not been shut down is because only rich people can afford to do it, which includes politicians and their mates. To give an idea you need to spend hundreds just to see a Harley Street private psychiatrist for 15 minutes. An initial diagnosis can easily cost over a grand. But if you can afford to see those people regularly you can get benzos and stims handed to you. And if you can afford a private pain specialist for the same kind of money you will get morphine or oxy or whatever.

Private doctors = legal dealers for rich people. I absolutely 100% guarantee that a significant minority of City workers and a large portion of politicians are seeing private docs for their fix. Most City jobs even give you private health insurance as an employment benefit so they don't need to pay out of pocket. They do need to pay full price for the private prescriptions at the pharmacy though, plus tax on the value of the insurance policy.

To be honest even on the NHS if you go in there looking middle class enough most doctors will give you this shit for free anyway. I've been able to get pretty much whatever I want (within reason) on the NHS just by chatting to my GP. That includes the full range: opiates, benzos, stims, pregabalin, etc.

Oh and the City boys will be doing coke as well obviously.
 
I'm so surprised at the success in using heroin itself to taper down heroin addicts. This way, they don't have to deal with the biological changes and side effects of switching to a different opiate poison with different timelines and effects. Subs are pretty good, but they legitimately don't vibe well with many heroin addicts. There's methadone, but that's destroyed as many lives as its saved objectively.


Anyone know of ibogain? What is it? Do it work?
 
This is an issue that comes down to body chemistry. I know for me by the 3rd day, a good 2 day break is needed because i no longer get high. That is none of the positive effects are there after that, so it wouldn't even be worth chasing a high that isn't there to begin with

I imagine i could be a functional opiate user no problem, because of the long recovery time needed
 
When one takes heroin for a long time, or any other opioid, from which heroin and other morphine and codeine derivatives are very low toxicity, none the less they will develop an acquired metabolic & endocrine disorder wherein being cut off causes withdrawal symptoms, as does rapid reduction, and the physiological dependence and tolerance are associated with it. By itself, it is narcotic habituation, one of the many known to clinical medicine. If a phobia develops about withdrawal, then it is addiction. But the worry is about something real -- they took the narcotic because it did something for them which almost by definition had a physiological basis, and a small number of sickly people do die from sudden or accelerated withdrawal.

There should be no surprise that diamorphine maintenance is very helpful, as it obviates the small chance of a heart attack, stroke, or pulmonary embolism that may be precipitated by withdrawal. Absent some more serious forms of organic damage or infections, there is no reason that a person maintained on morphine or one of its derivatives, including the codeine, morphine esters, 14-dihydromorphinones, and dihydrocodeine/DHM series should not live to one standard deviation or more above the mean and median life expectancy and that as a productive life.

Were I in such a situation I wound want extended-release morphine and then hydromorphone, morphine, nicomorphine or the like for pain and any related trouble -- essentially a subset of the choice now for many European addicts, more Canadian addicts, the very rare case of heavily-dependent iatrogenic habitué being cut off for administrative reasons (except in the US, where they are doing it right and left)

. . . and, if one counts the early days and a few later with levorphanol, racemorphan, hydromorphinol, IR and ER dihydrocodeine, piritramide, and ketobemidone, dipipanone, phenadoxone, and dextromoramide for breakthrough pain, that is essentially my chronic pain regimen from enlightened doctors for the last 50 years, and others including a number of family members and others I have known from 20+ and counting to 102 years with morphine being the apparent magic bullet; after all, it is God's Own Medicine. The 102-year-long case, in the US of all places, was started on diamorphine in the beginning and was switched to morphine when smack was outlawed for medical use there in 1924. No interruption of dose, no life of crime, nothing really somatic aside for looking younger than she was and having a higher energy level. Her mg/kg body mass, absolute, and mg/m³ BSA doses actually didn't rise that much from 1908, or as much as a lot of us here would think would happen. A plateau that can set in for a number of kinds of users, some rotation with hydromorphone and oxymorphone in the 1960s and around 2007, potentiators, and skipping the occasional dose when she felt like it, in addition to remaining a the same healthy weight all through her years probably did it.

Not to mention the human rights angle.

I might also consider levomethadone -- that is what kills the pain and most of the withdrawal, and the experience various places is that it is healthier than methadone for cardiac, endocrine, neurological and general health.

The human rights again. As the United Nations and individual countries have pointed out, pain relief (including, I would argue, withdrawal, Paws, and, with extensively informed consent and oversight of a general practitioner and two specialists at the beginning, the other pains for which it was used up to the late 1950s and for which narcotics are used by most unsupervised users now) is a human right above and beyond the other human right to manage ones own nervous system, body, and health.
 
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Nicomorphinist said:
The 102-year-long case, in the US of all places, was started on diamorphine in the beginning and was switched to morphine when smack was outlawed for medical use there in 1924. No interruption, no life of crime, nothing really somatic aside for looking younger than she was and having a higher energy level.
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😲
 
F.U.B.A.R. said:
To live life as an addict is to live life as a robot. No feeling, no love, no life...
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I'm not advocating or glorifying addiction here because I'm in full agreement it's horrid, but this isn't the case for me personally. Opiates actually make me more loving, caring, and empathetic, as well as more sociable. Of course this isn't sustainable for the obvious reasons you're already familiar with. But when I'm under the influence I feel very much the opposite of a robot.

Pretty much the whole reason I like opiates is because they give me an ability to feel things that I tend to lack otherwise.
 
Wilson Wilson said:
But when I'm under the influence I feel very much the opposite of a robot.
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Wilson, i agree with your statements. more than agree really, But where i want to point out to you, is this, Had you never experienced habituation to opiates, you'd had become accustomed to more profound 'normal' emotion, therfore experiencing said things without the drugs, doesn't mean the drugs don't amplify or alter in a positive fashion, because they do, and especially when somthing makes us feel good, we're able to enjoy life much more than usual.
 
Zonxx said:
Wilson, i agree with your statements. more than agree really, But where i want to point out to you, is this, Had you never experienced habituation to opiates, you'd had become accustomed to more profound 'normal' emotion, therfore experiencing said things without the drugs, doesn't mean the drugs don't amplify or alter in a positive fashion, because they do, and especially when somthing makes us feel good, we're able to enjoy life much more than usual.
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This is probably true for most people to be fair, but not in my case.

I remember my first DHC script with great fondness because for the first time in my entire life I could actually feel connected to people and the world around me.

And it felt very "natural" even though it was drug induced, and I say that because MDMA for example feels very "forced" by flooding your brain with serotonin, it's very overwhelming and you know you're way more "loved up" than anyone would normally be because you're on drugs.

With opiates though it just makes me think "shit, is this how mentally healthy people actually feel all the time?"

I have no idea if it is or not, all I know is I do not feel that level of emotion sober and never have.

For reference my first DHC script was at... I think 21 or 22 years old. So it's not like I been on opiates my whole life and never gave myself a chance to feel normally.

I never felt a profound level of "normal" emotion without being on drugs. Just one of the ways my brain is fucked.
 
Thinking that your life is going to automatically improve when you quit is a trap, you simply go back to normal life which can feel very bleh, especially if you're used to being high all the time.
Once you get sober you have to recognize that yeah life might suck and be boring right now, but it doesn't have to be this way forever.
It's easier said than done, and I'm lucky to be fairly mentally sound with no depression or anxiety issues, but you have to work on yourself for life to feel good, and personally I couldn't do that while spending all my money on heroin and hanging out with druggies all day long because of lack of time, money and most importantly motivation (why get off your ass and go to the gym when you can just do some dope and stare at a screen?)

I can tell you there's few feelings as good as lifting weights with your favorite music blasting in your ears.
You truly feel high on life.
Hell you don't even have to be completely sober, I would still take a pill and go to an EDM party if the opportunity presented itself, I just don't want to do heroin anymore.

I think it would actually be viable to live on opioids for all of your life IF they were available to you for free or extremely cheap, but I am also convinced it wouldn't be a good life.
Opioids are fairly harmless to your body, except for slowing down your bowel movements and destroying your testosterone levels, two things which can be treated with relative ease.

The main problem i think would be tolerance. Opioids feel great until they don't, and then you have to take huge amounts just to be normal.
Even if you had unlimited amounts and could increase your dose ad infinitum to avoid tolerance I'm sure they would lose their "magic" at some point and side effects like depression, fatigue etc. would keep mounting and mounting. There's a reason why even people who get on methadone for free (that's how it works here) want to get off of it at some point.
Also even just the thought of possibly going into unspeakably horrifying withdrawals if I miss a single dose would make me very nervous and make me feel like a miserable slave.

All things considered I think opioid addiction, in this reality where tolerance and money are a thing, is absolutely that bad.
I know it doesn't feel that way at first as I've been through it, it feels very innocent and harmless and if only you had the money to go on forever... but ask any drug addicted millionaire if they like their 10 year oxy habit that they can perfectly afford, I doubt they would say yes
 
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My grandma told me that when she was a child, she recalled her grandma being super cheerful and happy all the time, that visits were always pleasant and looked forward to; she then remembered seeing opium tinctures in her bathroom cabinet every time she was over. My great-great-grandmother was an opium addict till the day she died (it was of course legal in the 19th/early 20th century) and I was told it never negatively effected her in any way.
 
Zonxx said:
ahah i got your solution to the constipation m8, 3 senokot everyday for 3-4 days, then don't take your opiates on day 3 or 4, which is tough as fuck but gotta deal with it, then have a coffee, maybe anoher senokot, and they have these Suppositories theyre Glycerin suppositories, they will change your life and you won't worry about the constipation anymore
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Screw "days" without my meds just to take a righteous dump. All I need to do is string out one dose a few extra hours and bah-da-bing, things start moving and voila, there it is, so to speak. I seriously feel for anyone who has to deal with real bowel issues but thank God that's not the case with me. For all the opiates I take, I'm incredible grateful that's not a problem I have to deal with. FTR, I do have plenty of other issues to deal with. Hang in there all my fellow pain patients!
 
Cream Gravy? said:
My grandma told me that when she was a child, she recalled her grandma being super cheerful and happy all the time, that visits were always pleasant and looked forward to; she then remembered seeing opium tinctures in her bathroom cabinet every time she was over. My great-great-grandmother was an opium addict till the day she died (it was of course legal in the 19th/early 20th century) and I was told it never negatively effected her in any way.
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So was Benny Franklin
 
Is opiate addiction really so bad?
in my travels to me benzo wd is sooooooooo fucking bad
on a scale of 1-10 where 10 is worst benzo maybe 9 or 10 (for me) opi 7+.
sudden cessation
 
Hey OP,

Everyone is different, but i'll tell you what happened to me...

Read the short version if you just want a quick read pertaining to the OP:


Short Version:

I would definitely, 100%, FOR SURE move far, far, far away from that "lifestyle" as you call it and as I used to call it. You definitely do NOT NEED to hit rock bottom before you change the way you operate your life. Simply put, Quit while you are ahead, man.....

Not to sound harsh, but you would have to either be a fucking fool or in some seriously denial to truly think that this lifestyle is sustainable, especially long-term. But hey, on the flip side of the coin, I am sure there's some rare exceptions where opiates/opioads can be used successfully long term, I just doubt that you're an exception. I once thought I was one of those people who could use everyday and be completely fine and functional, and to be completely honest, for a very long time as long as I had an adequate stash of pain pills, I was functioning at a high level. but it didn't last and I ended up pretty fucking bad off. So, I wouldn't bet my money on your experience leading anywhere positive (with prolonged, consistent use).

From my experience, I arguably, don't think I truly hit my "rock bottom" but I turned my self around because I ended up pretty fucking miserable and lost it all. Spoiler alert, that cliche story is fucking true AKA start off by taking a few hydros, which leads to oxy, which leads to heavier shit and heavier shit and before you know it you're IVing heroin on the regular. LOL.




Long Version:

So, I started using 5mg, 7.5mg, and 10mg hydrocodone/ Norcos throughout my college career. At first, I was using only a few times per week.
Look man, the way you describe how it makes you feel; all the benefits and alleviation....I used to feel the exact same way, man, because it is all TRUE, at first. And I'm sure a lot of other experienced opiate users will agree with that.
It used to make me comfortable in my own skin, quick on my toes, witty, confident, etc. It essentially helped to solidify really great friendships and relationships that i still actually have to this day. It helped improve my hobbies, including preforming live music, writing, drawing, etc. Bro, so many endless late night conversations about philosophy and creative ideas with my roommates. At that point of time in my life, I would have sworn to my own mother that this drug had absolutely zero negative effects/side effects hahaha... For me, it provided so much depth.

Dude, I specifically remember the first point of time when I had the realization that if I stop taking the hydros, I would have w/ds and just like you, I was saying the same thing, "
The negative aspect of opiate addiction so far is that I have to live in perpetual fear of withdrawal when I'm using again
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" (For whatever reason, this post really reminded me of myself back in the day and it resonated with me).

I genuinely wish that realization was enough for me to quit. Instead, it was only a foreshadow into what was to inevitably happen, i.e.-extreme sickness and w/d.

So, I used pills for about 7 years in total before moving to heroin, which I used for a little over 2 years.

For the first 3 years I was only using hydrocodone. I would describe it as manageable and light-hearted...super chill/low key...etc.
I wouldn't have ever considered it as an addiction, even though i had experienced a couple minor w/d at that point; the birth of my denial lol.

Side Note: If you knew me IRL, you'd never peg me for the type of person who has been through this kind of shit, like literally AT ALL. In other words, I am just saying that it can happen to literally anyone. Addictive drugs have no preference of who uses them. And no matter who you are or how strong-willed you may be, just know that there's a chance that your situation might end up ultra fucked. I learned the hard way (even though it could have been way worse which i understand).

Anyways....one day my college roommate unintentionally stumbled across a guy who had a steady supply of 10mg methadone and 15mg roxy connect for insanely cheap prices. I won't list the pricing out of respect for BL, but just to put the methadone price in perspective, it cost more to buy a Swisher Sweet cigarillo than it did to obtain 1 pill and at the time, I really viewed it as an amazing thing...Go figure.

From that day forward, my tolerance totally sky rocketed and my "addiction" steadily progressed; Unintentionally and blindly.

Fast forward to the fifth or sixth year of my pill use. I was popping multiple pills multiple times a day which consisted of around 50mg or more of oxys on the daily (they turned out to my preferable DOC), or morphine, hydomorphone, methadones, and/or I guess hydrocodones if it was the only thing available.

SO, the point I am trying to make is that you can clearly see the unintentional process of my tolerance as it naturally went up and up and up, as I had to increase the dosage more and more and more. Which it all started out to maintain my awful anxiety/depression, social awkwardness, my relationship with my gf, my witty persona, etc. -- It was everything that I needed to become successful and maintain my happiness...

So yeah man, as the years progressed, for the entire time, that is what I continued to tell myself ^ even though I knew that my motives and intentions had changed. I didn't want to face the real truth and reasoning behind my actions so it was buried deep down inside my psyche.

That is how I seriously viewed it for many years because that is how it all played out during the beginning when all I would do is pop a couple hydros on the weekends and maybe a couple times during the weekdays if I needed to socialize or if I wanted to reward myself with a half-assed exam grade, or if it was homies birthday or whatever lol.

Oh yeah...Also, at this point of time I had tried heroin I think like twice or three times. It blows my mind to this day how I was so blinded to red flags that the universe gave me. I just continued down the same path, and I straight up never even thought to reconsider my actions. Heroin was never my go to drug of choice. I would only do it when it was the only thing available, unfortunately. The fear of getting sick from w/d grew ten fold in my experience and sometimes it was too much to handle.

To wrap this up, within a year or two span, the hydrocodone guy passed (dope OD in Thailand), the methadone seller's uncle stopped getting prescribed/got clean, therefore he no longer had inventory to sell anymore, and my oxy guy burned me on literally such a massive purchase, which was the straw that broke the camels back. Being that broke and in desperation, what ended up happening was I started smoking black tar heroin. It wasn't the same but I learned to love it. Then I found a guy that could get tan powder. See ya later black tar. I always had rails chopped up on a plate in my nightstand drawer. Once I switched over to dope, that is all that mattered. Pills just didn't make any sense at that point. I no longer got that feeling from pills, unless it was a large dosage which would have been too expensive once i found out about heroin and all the money I could have saved (sarcasm).

I went from being an ignorant college student using hydrocodone to unwind, feel good, and enhance relationships -- saying to myself and homies who may have been concerned, "aw man, that shit won't happen to me lol you gotta be an idiot to do that shit, it's not like that" -- fast forward 7 years to me shooting heroin like basically all the time, removed all close friends, ended a relationship of 5 years, and wasted a handful of serious life changing career opportunities that I will never get back. I just resided in complete chaos and desperation for a little while.

Currently, I've been clean from all opiates/opioids since April 1, 2019 (no joke) and i am still going strong. I actually just lowered my dosage to 4mg of suboxone last week (bragging bitch yuh). It is a proud feeling... So, if anyone is in a similar situation and you're bored enough to read all this shit, just know this situation can be negated if you just stopped bullshitting yourslf about any drug issue and stopped navigating this life based off fear. Reach out to the ones you keep close if you aren't sure what to do because if you don't they'll probably end up finding out anyways lol -- So, from the get go, just kept it 100%.


Look...to each there own, for sure.... but i wanna wrap up this story on a positive note by saying that through my journey, it turns out that tha dope life was only cool for so long until it inevitably brought me a lot of pain.
Nowadays, opiates just ain't for me any more. Check this shit out --- I realized literally the biggest lesson ever. The lesson I learned is that I have to face adversity head first with zero excuses.
See, it seems to me like there is a certain stage of drug use when a lot of fucking people, including myself, start to resort to tha heroin, oxys, hydros or whatever when they are faced with any type of adversity; as it enters there consciousness the addict (myself) found it easier to alter my consciousness to manipulate that adversity in a temporary fashion... I think that in order to grow internally as a human being, it is important to understand that overcoming adversity is the only thing that allows us to grow and that literally can not be done through drug use even if it is to mask social anxiety or to ease the nerves before you go on that date, or whatever mann. So yeah, If you resort to drugs, it will definitely bypass that adversity that you are faced with.. And that is why I got so involved with opiates. I never really knew how to articulate that until now, really.



Ending Notes: I was compelled to share my story and hope to portray the importance of how these types situations are becoming more and more common as the years progress. I mean, the shit I went through literally could not have played off any more cliche; beginning with recreational light pain pills and ending as an IV heroin user. Not trying to exploit my situation but to address the fact that it can happen to anyone especially those you'd least expect. This type of shit happens all the fucking time. Obviously, y'all know this shit! So, to the OP or anyone else who has actually read all of this -- I am just spitting an obvious, basic story, I do not think what happened to me is special and so hopefully it's just a refresher as to what can happen but if it ain't so obvious, hopefully you're at least able to see the subtle changes opiates have on the mindset through out the course of time. Hell...my motives definitely evolved into something uncontrollable throughout the years. So, Just do what you gotta do to get your priorities in order. And never dismiss adversity.
 
Cream Gravy? said:
My grandma told me that when she was a child, she recalled her grandma being super cheerful and happy all the time, that visits were always pleasant and looked forward to; she then remembered seeing opium tinctures in her bathroom cabinet every time she was over. My great-great-grandmother was an opium addict till the day she died (it was of course legal in the 19th/early 20th century) and I was told it never negatively effected her in any way.
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"Me and my grandma take meds."
-Lil Pump

Sorry, had to 😂

Makes a good point though honestly. I do think many of the problems with opiates are caused by the legal status. There's certainly issues like tolerance, dependence, and constipation which come with the chemicals themselves, but when it comes to addiction it's very much something that is formed by social attitudes.
 
Wilson Wilson said:
"Me and my grandma take meds."
-Lil Pump

Sorry, had to 😂

Makes a good point though honestly. I do think many of the problems with opiates are caused by the legal status. There's certainly issues like tolerance, dependence, and constipation which come with the chemicals themselves, but when it comes to addiction it's very much something that is formed by social attitudes.
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I very much agree. Unfortunately I feel there's a tendency by some people to take that fact and use it to justify their continued addition. I'm certainly not speaking of anyone in particular here, I just mean that in general, addition as a tendency to cause addicts to find justifications to continue using. And I feel like many have a tendency to use the fact that opioids themselves may not have to be this harmful to justify continuing to use.

But unfortunately, rightly or wrongly the current legal and social situation is what it is. And the problems related to it are still likely to show up if you continue in addition. Even if it doesn't have to be that way and shouldn't be that way, life decisions have to be made on today's reality, fair or not, and not what tomorrow's should be.
 
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JessFR said:
I very much agree. Unfortunately I feel there's a tendency by some people to take that fact and use it to justify their continued addition. I'm certainly not speaking of anyone in particular here, I just mean that in general, addition as a tendency to cause addicts to find justifications to continue using. And I feel like many have a tendency to use the fact that opioids themselves may not have to be this harmful to justify continuing to use.

But unfortunately, rightly or wrongly the current legal and social situation is what it is. And the problems related to it are still likely to show up if you continue in addition. Even if it doesn't have to be that way and shouldn't be that way, life decisions have to be made on today's reality, fair or not, and not what tomorrow's should be.
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Oh yeah for sure. Addicts will always find a way to justify their addiction.

I think I'm somewhat lucky to know first hand the difference between a readily available legit supply and a black market supply. As in I live in a country where I used to be able to buy codeine syrup OTC from four different pharmacies in walking distance and would do the rounds every week and get lucky 90% of the time. I was honestly pretty happy with that even though it was only codeine. Netted me 2400mg of codeine per week for very little money.

Once it became a lot more difficult to get codeine bottles OTC due to sudden increase in popularity (blame that stupid "lean" trend) I moved to using online pharmacies to get dihydrocodeine which is kind of a grey area. They were legit pharmacies, properly regulated, but they effectively used a loophole that allowed them to prescribe 200 tablets of prescription strength codeine or DHC at a go to anyone who filled in an online form. DHC is twice the potency of codeine and, to me at least, far more euphoric.

Then they eventually cottoned onto that as you'd imagine and now those pharmacies can no longer get away with scripting opiates so freely. This is the point where I moved onto oxy. You can imagine it was rather downhill from there.

If I continued to have access to my original codeine supply uninterrupted I doubt I would have faced many problems. Even withdrawal wouldn't have been so bad because, well, it's only fucking codeine. Compared to oxy withdrawal it's a walk in the park. And with a consistent supply you can taper at your own pace.

But comparing that kind of legit supply, where you can openly buy bottles of pure codeine legally from pharmacies, to a black market where you're getting oxy or H, is obviously no fair comparison. Totally different kettle of fish.

Happily I've now been off oxy for quite a long time and while I do still fuck with less potent opiates now and then (managed to get one of those bottles of codeine just today) I'd never go back to an oxy habit in a million years. Fuck that.

I've recently been using poppy tea as a replacement since pods can be purchased legally here with no real regulation (as long as they're for "ornamental" purposes, naturally) and honestly it's about on par with the codeine and sometimes you get surprised with a stronger batch so I'm quite happy with that for a nice little sustainable opiate supply.
 
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