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Is opiate addiction really so bad?

I must admit that there are times I miss being dependent on opiates. Life seemed so simple then. I only had one problem to deal with, rather than multiple real life issues. The transition from addiction to sobriety is a long rocky road - but its definitely worth it in the end.

(However, I'm now a raging alcoholic and stim fiend so don't listen to me...)
 
I must admit that there are times I miss being dependent on opiates. Life seemed so simple then. I only had one problem to deal with, rather than multiple real life issues. The transition from addiction to sobriety is a long rocky road - but its definitely worth it in the end.

(However, I'm now a raging alcoholic and stim fiend so don't listen to me...)
I watched Trainspotting for the umpteenth time yesterday. The way he describes it in his rambling at the beginning is very similar to what you said and so true lol.

Or as I believe Bill Hicks once put it, I feel sorry for those who've never been addicted to a drug. They'll never know what it's like to want something more than anything else in the world, and then get it over and over and over again.
 
Yea but they'll also never know what it's like to want something more than anything else in the world... And then find out you're not getting it... At least not now.

Ugh, it's like a sensation of sinking into a pit of cold hell.

It's a mixed bag shall we say.
 
Yea but they'll also never know what it's like to want something more than anything else in the world... And then find out you're not getting it... At least not now.

Ugh, it's like a sensation of sinking into a pit of cold hell.

It's a mixed bag shall we say.
Very true. Drugs are a double edged sword but I've been so much happier on average since becoming a 'druggie'. I was so unhappy before. At least now there's SOME days I feel good.
 
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all within moderation though right? drugs are happiness afterall, we just need to know how to moderate them so they don't become the only source of happiness
I always try at least. Right now I'm 4 days off weed and that's saying something (y)
 
I always try at least. Right now I'm 4 days off weed and that's saying something (y)
you know, i went from being a 2+ gram a day high quality hash smoker to not smoking at all, and i didn't really ever think about it, never could figure out why either, i never made a decision not to smoke anymore it just happened ^^
 
Ja, there is the issue of narcotics being middling to peerless anti-depressants and anxiolytics inter alia, and unsupervised opioid users are in many cases simply 65 years behind and 30 years ahead of their time to see the research going on . . . I think it was globally over the last 19-20 years that the 18 per cent increase in depression was found by the studies and I think it is probably just scratching the surface . . . in addition to things like the different basal hedonic tone with which we all are born and can be adjusted in different ways through life, and other matters that are the subject of research, it seems to be common sense that a lot of depression in all of its forms can be precipitated or at least the patient started down the road by being overwhelmed by the various stressors that come of social atomisation, the economy and everything else coming unglued -- no wonder politicians and media want to make it into some cri$i$ which is caused by an inanimate substance with nothing in reality like the the allegedly stark, simple, constant, deterministic results that impact everyone the same way, powders and liquids which have no volition of their own and no ability to undertake locomotion and find their way into human bodies*. The questions that would need to be asked are very distasteful especially to most of the US political spectrum, and there is leakage over the US-Canadian border with anything that happens down there to various extents . . .

By the way, hydrocodone and some other 14-dihydromorphinones, the dihydrocodeine series and its parent dihydromorphine, morphine and its esters, codeine, whole opium, maybe a few open chain opioids, and somewhat atypical 4-phenylpiperidines like ketobemidone, perhaps tramadol and relatives for certain cases, are the agents which seem most effective -- it seems like anything stronger than oxymorphone or nicomorphine would be comprehensively unhelpful for these often maybe counterintuitively subtle and fine-tuned uses -- fentanils, benzimidazoles (if only that their sub-60-minute duration of action and intrinsic stimulant effects make them unmanageable and severely narrow the patient group which would be helped) and Bentley Compounds seem useless for this kind of thing, which is why there is such enthusiasm for buprenorphine in the West and dihydroetorphine in East Asia for detoxification and maintenance . . . not to mention the aforementioned three opioid families' dangers to not only unsupervised users but even occasionally non-compliant patients . . .

---
* The stronger fentanils, benzimidizoles, and substituted oripavine derivatives are active in low enough doses that dust motes of them float and can be inhaled and cause all sorts of problems just like handling LSD after shaving and without gloves but actually probably fatal -- thus the cops and lab folks have special equipment and you have to wonder who exactly is sourcing and redistributing some of this shit on the streets of North America . . .
 
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It is perfectly possible to live a functional life as an opiate addict. But robots are also functional. To live life as an addict is to live life as a robot. No feeling, no love, no life...
I really object to what you’re saying but it’s difficult for me to articulate why. I think the reasons to try heroin or even use it regularly as an ‘addict’ might be better expressed by art than by argument. I mean, would you gamble it all (the possibility of a ‘normal’, bourgeois life) in order to create this:





Because for a lot of us, that’s what opiates liberate us to do. Feel, love, live.
 
I still don't get where this argument that heroin or other opioids help creativity comes from. And I've seen nothing to make me think it's true. I wouldn't say it reduces creativity either. I just don't think it does much to innate creativity one way or the other.

I would however argue that opioids don't stop you from being able to love or have feelings. They just do a great job of reducing negative feelings.

It is of course always worth keeping in mind that different people have different experiences, even with the same drug. Even addiction comes in different forms and levels of severity.

EDIT: On that note, it's also worth keeping in mind that I am on methadone, and was on heroin for years before that. And I have been on at least some kind of opioid for a very very long time. So I might not truly realize how much the intensity of my emotions might be being reduced by opioids.
 
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I often miss the taste of a lot of wines, absinthe, šljivovica, and so forth, though I still make the latter two to keep the recipe and technology current, but aside from the risk of vomit aspiration and other obvious effects of mixing alcohol and opioids, I am convinced that the human liver can process one or the other but not both above a certain level of opioid dose and certainly with physical habituation and tolerance -- people who mix them are making themselves feel sicker or not as well as they could be. Stimulants and cannabis are indeed used with opioids in chronic pain and cancer cases but it is a science and an art and a skilled trade which is more involved and delicate than even some of the other potentiators like antihistamines, anti-convulsants, anti-depressants, and anticholinergics . . . How about benzodiazepines and other depressants like carisoprodol and barbiturates? Well, perhaps less is more when using them with opioids for chronic pain, and I would imagine anxiety, depression, and other things of that type as well . . .
 
I still don't get where this argument that heroin or other opioids help creativity comes from. And I've seen nothing to make me think it's true. I wouldn't say it reduces creativity either. I just don't think it does much to innate creativity one way or the other.

I would however argue that opioids don't stop you from being able to love or have feelings. They just do a great job of reducing negative feelings.

It is of course always worth keeping in mind that different people have different experiences, even with the same drug. Even addiction comes in different forms and levels of severity.

EDIT: On that note, it's also worth keeping in mind that I am on methadone, and was on heroin for years before that. And I have been on at least some kind of opioid for a very very long time. So I might not truly realize how much the intensity of my emotions might be being reduced by opioids.
I’m not a logical, linear personality type so bear with me. I lot of what I say may not make sense but I want to go back to what you were saying about depression.

Some of us are burdened with trauma and tons of emotional bullshit that might even be clinically defined as mental illness, depression, bipolar, borderline personality disorder etc. conditions that give rise to a very different experience of life than other people have. They are also conditions that may be excruciatingly painful, alienating and basically preclude expression.

My boyfriend is a musician and I have seen over and over again how a shot of dope can clear his usual funky, morose, sometimes suicidal mood and allows him to write, compose and play. It’s not that the dope makes him creative; it simple releases him to be so.
 
Well I'd certainly agree that heroin can do that. Heroin, and opioids in general, are excellent pain killers. Including emotional pain. So yeah, reducing that emotional pain can cause you to function better mentally than you would otherwise.
 
Opiates tend to seduce you into thinking you're better off with them than without them. This is a lie. I was dependent on heroin and/or methadone for 20 years. I've now been clean for 5 years and I cant believe how stupid I was. As I said, you have to to come out of the other side before you can appreciate how much it drags you down.

Of course I want to get out of this lifestyle at the end of the day. To be honest, I've been wanting out since the end of year 1. I've made some strides in my dependency and have proven that I can live without it for a while. What I have yet to prove is that I can live 100% without it and STAY OUT. Do you have any advice for quitting permanently? The longer I stay sober the more the memories of the feeling become louder and I suffer from cravings until I return and knock them away, then go about my daily life without them again. It's like I'm possessed by a demon and lose all control of my body and mind until I gain access again.

That being said, I do prefer the lifestyle even if it's "fake happiness." Meth and heroin are off limits for me. I know what will happen to me should I touch those two--as I have quite an addictive personality and I know I wouldn't recover from that. As for the creativity aspects of opiates, I believe that the high and low are both equally mentally intense in different directions. Feeling the two can (in my opinion) give you more depth to your art. Not everyone feels the euphoric rush of opiates and the crippling suicidal depression from withdrawals in everyday life. Not to mention, opiates can serve as a performance anxiety killer and beta blocker even long after the high wears off and dulls your mind out.


Exactly one year ago I quit daily use of opioids. That entire year I struggled with depression and lethargy. I started abusing stimulants more than ever before to at least feel solidly good for once. I can't imagine that two years of daily use would cause the mental aspect of withdrawal to be an entire year, but it's plausible right?
 
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Heroin isn't just another opiate like people think it is. I know it's so much more.
Only a minority of people who ever use it stumble into addiction.
heroin-addiction-statistics.png

 
Even if that's true. 23% is a damn big risk when the consequences can be destroying your life. It's better odds than winning a single roll of the dice. (more than 1 in 5)

I'm not sure I trust that statistic anyway. I mean it's just a picture, with no reference to how it came to that percentage. I'm not saying it's false, just that I'd want more information before trusting it.
 
After dicussing this at great length and having other folks there so that you unquestionably have informed consent and a means to essentially have multiple trip-sitters, have an opioid-naïve person you know, or you if you do not take narcotics, take one of someone's leftover DF-118s or Tikes or Vikes or itty bitty Codeine HCl tabs if they are in no pain and in a reasonably positive state of mind -- it will make them nauseous, maybe a little panicky, give them a headache and make them itchy, and it will do nothing for them subjectively, and they will not want to repeat it, because narcotics are much more subtle than C-Jam or alcohol or weed or meth, Shabu, caffeine, nicotine . . . There are endocrine, metabolic, neurological and perhaps psychological reasons for this, enough to add up to it being a near-determined outcome.

Therefore the 23 per cent overall figure seems within the realm of possibility if one believes that there really are people who take drugs because they think they are cool, because of "peer pressure" and the like, imitation, curiosity . . . Someone who knows that smack is a painkiller and euphoriant who seeks it out, especially if they cannot get something else like hydrocodone or oxycodone, is going to have different results.

A table from page 7 of The Chemistry of Mind Altering Drugs, by Daniel Perrine (1996) cites a survey of doctors involved in addiction treatment (the table is also reproduced in You Will Die: The Burden of Modern Taboos by Robert Arthur (Feral House, 2012) Page 226, and the 7th Edition (October 2017) of Inside Narcotics, Page 13) gives the addictiveness score of heroin, a different measure taking several things into account, as 80 on a scale from 0 to 100, about in the middle of the table and tied with snorted Crank, compared to 99 for nicotine, 98 for Ice, 97 for crack, 92 for IV Crystal Meth, 83 for Valium, 81 for alcohol, 82 for Reds, 71 for C-Jam, 70 for caffeine, 57 for Angel Dust, 22 for Weed, 20 for E, 19 for Shrooms, 16 for Acid, 15 for Big Chief . . . my guess is that if poppers were on this table it may be like 36 or thereabouts, White Tornado 95, fentanyl 20 or so, clomethiazole would be in the 60s somewhere, M would be 75 or so, codeine 50, oxycodone 90, hyoscine 10, Scophedal 91, DHC 70, hydrocodone 83, nicomorphine 80, dextromoramide 80, Ludes 85, air 100, methylphenidate 90, White Crosses 88, D 81, oxymorphone 84, hydromorphinol 81, Diconal 88, pentazocine 15, Ts & Blues 60, dextropropoxyphene 58, poppy tea 66, Op 75, tripelennamine 50, Blue Velvet 85, model aeroplane glue 17, petrol 16, Ortho Weed B-Gon 8, Tabasco Sauce on your pecker 5, but your results may vary . . .
 
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I've honestly never used anything stronger than oxycodone, maybe I could be just as functional as you. I'm just saying the stronger ones tend to lead people to bad places. I have no issue with the idea of using opium or morphine or methadone or other long half-life opioids daily. Short half-life ones are given to issues though.

Like I said before, the only real issue with opioid use for life is supply, and constipation. If opioids were OTC and one could find a way to deal with any constipation there's no reason anyone would need to avoid them.
ahah i got your solution to the constipation m8, 3 senokot everyday for 3-4 days, then don't take your opiates on day 3 or 4, which is tough as fuck but gotta deal with it, then have a coffee, maybe anoher senokot, and they have these Suppositories theyre Glycerin suppositories, they will change your life and you won't worry about the constipation anymore
 
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