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Is Net Neutrality doomed?

CoffeeDrinker

CoffeeDrinker

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Are we bound to have an uneven and tiered internet? Is "Internet 2.0" just bound to happen?
It seems like with the DC district court ruling that prevented the FCC from stopping discrimination, and these new net neutrality rules that are far weaker and more "loop-holey" than ever before, that we are simply headed for a corporate/artificial/discriminatory/oligarchy/whatever you want to call it type internet.
Logic and righteousness and innovation may be on the side of Net Neutrality, but corporate lobbyists and corrupt politicians are against it. Now we have these judges who, "on principle," are against the FCC from regulating the internet. Is there any hope for a fair and free internet any more?
 
net-neutrality-thumb-550xauto-27419.jpg
 
Is the nature of bandwidth itself such that there is no way to have a free, open source, ISP? I feel like bandwidth is like the gunpowder of our age, those who control it control society. But is there a way to manufacture or produce bandwidth cheaply or freely so that one could have an ISP that is viable to support the internet and so people don't have to be subject to these horrible business models that the current ISPs are trying to implement?
I want to kill Comcast and AT&T and Time Warner and whoever else threatens net neutrality with one good idea. Once people are used to this crappy tiered internet they'd flock to an ISP that would provide them the same neutral access no matter what they're doing on the internet. Especially if it'd be for free!
Is there a way to utilize the already existing lines and connections that everyone shares, or are these solely property of the companies that laid the lines, and there's no way to exploit them?
 
^ Outstanding post... I am pretty sure that there is going to be one way or another of getting around these "officially throttled" connections. The power of the market I am sure will come to the rescue, as you indicate.

And I mentioned, Satellite, which you can get in the US for $30/month, free install, free equipment, is essentially a non-throttled direct broadband connection, FUCK Canadian government's decisions. Honestly I don't think THAT many users really care about it being too slow for interactive group online gaming... that's a fringe obsession, IMO. If you need it, use the "officially sanctioned" connection for that, and the Satellite Broadband for downloading movies, music, etc.
 
^ Sorry to have offended you. My apologies. So then if you are Canadian, as long as you are not downloading or streaming many movies... will the "official limits" being imposed on landline connections (and also WiFi I guess) block you from your gaming? I was guessing not, but I accept that my presumption may have been wrong.
 
So with this satellite internet is bandwidth unlimited for all intents and purposes? I can see the benefit of no longer being confined to a physical object to carry internet access, but does it actually work like that?
 
^ yeah but it can be expensive
I care about interactive group online gaming
Click to expand...
haha, you have to pay extra if you want to be a pirate.

shit, you guys have free healthcare though :(
 
Hmmm... just looked it up. I was thinking about one service, Dish network and I was wrong. Broadband from Dish Network "Platinum" option costs $80/month and you are limited to 17,000 Mb, which is I assume 17Gig... per MONTH. If it was per day, acceptable (barely). But per month, that's pretty restrictive. Well, crap. Sucky. AND expensive.

Perhaps there are cheaper ones out there though?

A little gogling got me to the following broadband guide site:

http://thebroadbandguide.com/

Give it your location and it finds available services.

For example from earthlink.net, for $59.95/month... I would think this is unlimited... they do not mention any limits like Dish does, claims speeds of 5Mbps

Satellite Internet access is powered by HughesNet, America's #1 choice for broadband by satellite. You'll get a super-fast, always-on Internet connection via 2-way satellite that won't tie up your phone. Satellite Internet is available nationwide. All you need is a clear view of the southern sky.

WHAT YOU'LL LOVE ABOUT HUGHESNET SATELLITE:
Satellite Internet access with blazing speed!
2-way satellite service for fast uploads
Instant Internet access, no busy signals
No phone line needed — no missed calls,
no dialing in
Download large files in minutes, not hours
Enjoy streaming video, music and more
 
Yeah this satellite internet doesn't seem so promising after all. Maybe it just needs a little more R&D for it to run, but I think that the real solution has to be with the landlines as they are the most solid and reliable transmitters of internet access.

I wish there was a way for each person to basically be their own ISP, you pay a one time charge to buy into the system and they are their own servers. It's the fact that the companies own the physical lines themselves that is the problem.

Kinda like how the electric grid is headed towards a completely democratic system with renewable energy (at least that's how I see it). In my vision of the future there's no one power plant providing all the electricity, but every home is fitted with solar panels and a little wind generator that provides all their utility needs they then provide any surplus electricity back into this new smart grid and everyone uses exactly what they need and there is much less wasted energy. Instead of a power plant there is a huge network of power generating "nodes" that all are fitted with smart meters that can control the flow of electricity with far more precision than current meters.
That's the way it should be anyway.

I wish there was a way to mimic this type of system for internet access, but there seem to be a few hard problems that need sorting out.
It seems a given that current entrenched interests are going to make the internet into what Cyc posted, but I feel like open-source is an unstoppable force that's only a matter of time for it to really take control.
 
Cyc said:
I care about interactive group online gaming :(
Click to expand...

Me too! It's literally the only way I can make money!

Also, as far as getting around any restrictions, the telcos can just kill any high entropy (read encrypted) bitstreams in addition to detecting/throttling certain kinds of packets and then we're all fucked. Sure, you can cleverly embed whatever you want into seemingly benign data, but that slows things down even worse. :(

On the plus side, if the internet as we know it really does go down in flames, it will spur the development of another truly open and free internet based on ham radio!
 
yeah but I'm more interested in compressing the data so that it takes as absolutely minimal amount of bandwidth as possible. Would that still be targeted by the telcos?
I think they're trying to convince everyone that they "need" to start charging all these rates in order to allow all the new internet connections to be able to function at all. If you greatly reduce the size of the data wouldn't that be one way to counter that argument?
I think I want to make it my life's work to preserve net neutrality.
 
^^^
You aren't going to get much out of data compression, at least not with today's techniques. Video and picture files are already compressed to hell, so non-lossy compression doesn't even work on them (or else it would be part of the compression algorithm.) Anyway, even back in the day when video comprised very little of the data being sent, using compression was barely effective enough to be worth it. Oh, and the more you compress something the more it looks like random data. Now if you're trying to log on to a BBS with a 1200 baud modem, then we can talk!

Steganography would be the way to go if they REALLY clamped down on what was sent over their network, but it would be very hard to make it undetectable, and it will probably only get harder. For now, let's just hope it doesn't get this bad.

Anyway, if you made it your life's work to preserve net neutrality I, for one, would consider you a hero, though I hope this goal doesn't take a lifetime to secure.
 
yeah see my interest and passion for this subject is muh larger than my technical knowledge.
I've been following the debates over net neutrality for a few years now, but I am now committed to actually knowing how to use a computer like a pro and trying to contribute something meaningful to the situation.
I wish Stanford wasn't so hard to get into...
 
While we were sleeping....

Comcast, AT&T, Cablevision, and other Internet service providers launch Copyright Alert System
Comcast, AT&T, Cablevision, Time Warner Cable, and Verizon have joined together into a powerful Coalition of Businesses You Hate But Can’t Live Without, and now they’re taking action against illegal downloading. The Executive Director for the Center for Copyright Information announced in a blog post yesterday that the long-planned Copyright Alert System will go into effect. The system uses a kind of Six-Strikes policy: The Internet service providers will send six electronic warnings to alleged offenders who are downloading content illegally. (By the fifth and sixth strikes, the ISPs will begin implementing “Mitigation Measures,” which include reducing the speed of your Internet — and if there’s one thing your service provider is good at, it’s making your connection incredibly slow.
The Center for Copyright Information declined to comment on the record when contacted by EW, but the system appears very mild. As the Center made clear in an earlier blog post, the CAS only deals with residential Internet services — so libraries, wi-fi cafés, and other places that currently offer free Internet will not be effected. If you are accused of downloading things illegally, and want to contest the allegation, there is an elaborate Independent Review system — and anyhow, let’s be honest, you were definitely illegally downloading the new episode of Game of Thrones. Anyhow, as with most efforts to stave off copyright infringement, this process will probably be circumvented very quickly by all but the least talented content pirates.
Click to expand...

I'm not exactly a proponent of downloading stuff from the Internet as I have done my fair share of taking music over the years, but I believe this is the first measure of what will become a very controlled access to the Internet in the coming years.
 
CoffeeDrinker said:
Is the nature of bandwidth itself such that there is no way to have a free, open source, ISP? I feel like bandwidth is like the gunpowder of our age, those who control it control society. But is there a way to manufacture or produce bandwidth cheaply or freely so that one could have an ISP that is viable to support the internet and so people don't have to be subject to these horrible business models that the current ISPs are trying to implement?
I want to kill Comcast and AT&T and Time Warner and whoever else threatens net neutrality with one good idea. Once people are used to this crappy tiered internet they'd flock to an ISP that would provide them the same neutral access no matter what they're doing on the internet. Especially if it'd be for free!
Is there a way to utilize the already existing lines and connections that everyone shares, or are these solely property of the companies that laid the lines, and there's no way to exploit them?
Click to expand...
i don't necessarily agree with this position but these companies have spent millions, if not billions, of dollars establishing this infrastructure. why shouldn't they have the right to use it it how they see fit? what gives you the right to dictate to them how it should be made available?

is ubiquitous, fast, neutral web access a right? is there a monopoly argument here? can the free market provide a solution to this 'problem'?

alasdair
 
It appears to mean (imo) that all the entertainment companies are tired of going after every user and decided to strong arm the ISPs to do something or else get taken to court as accessories or some other easy money charge in civil court. Most of us could probably see this coming though but a little surprised it took so long.
 
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