Is my 12 year old a sexual predator? Need advice ASAP

[psood0nym]

From your description I don't think your son is necessarily a "predator". He has cried and has given apologies, whereas I suspect a true predator of his age would likely appear disbelieving and indifferent. Given the living situation you've described the 5 year old simply sounds to be the most opportune person for your son to explore his sexuality with (yes, he's probably falsely ascribing that story about making out with girls to the 5 year old, but that doesn't make him gay). The age difference could very well be just a matter of circumstance. The measures you've taken seem appropriate, so long as in executing them you don't make your son feel he's a monster.

 

[Codemaster Mike]

This sounds like a serious issue to me, not a crisis but he needs to understand why it is that what he did with that boy was wrong. Have you had the sex/jerkin-da-girk/porno talk with him yet? Masturbation and sexual experimentation are essential parts of growing up, but they need to be practiced in the proper setting.

If this behavior continues, and I'd keep an eye out, the yes I'd say you should consult a psychologist or appropriate medical professional.

Yes. I have talked to him about sex and answered all questions he had truthfully. I explained that if he had any questions, concerns or anything he could come to me and I wouldn't judge him and give him an honest answer. He is a sweet kid with a great heart and up until this incident has been a near picture perfect big brother to the five year old. He was very resentful when me and his mother broke up and I immediately moved in with his stepmom and her three kids. It took him a long time to warm up to her and the kids but he accepted them after some time. He calls my wife momma even against his mothers wishes and has been a great brother to the three kids if slightly jealous of the full time attention that they get and his jealousy has actually seemed to be decreasing steadily with me focusing on him during the short times he stayed with us and trying to get him more days. Of course, he has me full time for the time being since we have the current unacceptable living situation. I am at a loss as this is completely out of character for him.

 

[amnesiaseizure]

Definite overkill to get psychiatrists involved imo. You'll just entrench the issue and bring a whole load of guilt and shame into it - which it sounds like you've already done a good job of doing. Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh but i believe there is a strong possibility that this is just normal experimentation. Its very possible that the 12 year old just saw a porno and wanted to act it out. Big deal. Don't make him feel so guilty about it because you will have created the problem, not solved it.

We're so quick as a society these days to call things perverted and jump to the worst case scenario for fear of the consequences of not doing so. I would personally apologise for putting all these sanctions in places and making the boy feel like he's "bad" and just supervise him a little more but subtlety. Oh, and keep talking to him and make sure he knows you still love him.

 

[Codemaster Mike]

Definite overkill to get psychiatrists involved imo. You'll just entrench the issue and bring a whole load of guilt and shame into it - which it sounds like you've already done a good job of doing. Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh but i believe there is a strong possibility that this is just normal experimentation. Its very possible that the 12 year old just saw a porno and wanted to act it out. Big deal. Don't make him feel so guilty about it because you will have created the problem, not solved it.

We're so quick as a society these days to call things perverted and jump to the worst case scenario for fear of the consequences of not doing so. I would personally apologise for putting all these sanctions in places and making the boy feel like he's "bad" and just supervise him a little more but subtlety. Oh, and keep talking to him and make sure he knows you still love him.

What about the five year old? I did emphasize that what he did was wrong as the five year old isn't able to defend himself in any way from the older sibling. You also didn't mention that this sexual act has a victim involved. I let him know I still love him but that using someone in that way is not okay. He can have total privacy if he wants to explore his own body and he has my full attention with as accurate information as I can supply about sex. This is potentially long-term/lifetime damage for the five year old and you chalking it up to just being kids is a bit troublesome and a bit too flippant for the situation. You seem more concerned with the oldest psychological state of mind while I am seriously concerned about both boys. I am trying protect each child and definitely don't want sex to viewed as bad or to cause some complex in him. I do think I can handle this in house and correct the behaviour since I believe we caught it the first time but I know too many victims of sexual abuse and fully know the lifelong consequences to let my son be a perpetuator of it.

And I don't consider them sanctions. They were things I should have made sure were done prior to him starting puberty. I realize that and have corrected my mistake.

 

[JessFR]

We're so quick as a society these days to call things perverted and jump to the worst case scenario for fear of the consequences of not doing so. I would personally apologise for putting all these sanctions in places and making the boy feel like he's "bad" and just supervise him a little more but subtlety. Oh, and keep talking to him and make sure he knows you still love him.

I agree.

Look, it's obvious you care about your children and that's great, but I feel very concerned that what you're doing is traumatizing and labeling your children.

I can't say if what the 12 year old did was a sign of something darker, what I can say for sure is that it might well not be, and that you may well turn it into something dark if you label him as that.

Children 12 years old DO NOT know what they are doing, that's why we as adults have a duty to protect them from others and from themselves.

Talk to all the children involved, but please try not to overreact. Taking them to a therapist when they haven't been to one before is a sure way to make this into a long term issue. Obviously if there were a problem you can't just ignore it, but this is far too benign to be concerned of that in an otherwise healthy 12 year old boy.

Odds are if you make a label out of this, get the 12 year old to believe he's bad and what he's done is irredeemable, the way I see it there's only 3 things that could happen. One is he really does have a problem which seems unlikely if this is the first issue of its kind, and if that's the case labeling him will have changed nothing. Two is he doesn't have a problem and now will believe he does and will suffer very low self esteem that will follow him for a long time. And three is he doesn't have a problem and now believes he does and will act out that role he's been given.

Regardless, labeling does no good.

Talk to him, tell him you're sorry if you scared him and that you're just trying to look after him and his siblings. Reassure him he can tell you anything, and ask what he's thinking, why he thinks he did it, if he's ever been involved in anything else like that.

Just, please don't set him down a path where he believes he's broken and bad and can never be any better.

EDIT: I just read the post that showed up while I was writing this one. I looked back over my post and you're right, I didn't say enough about the 5 year old. I guess because I know that as the victim, he will get the support he needs and deserves. I'm worried that the 12 year old didn't know any better and that when he grows older and does that he will punish himself all the more as a result of your reaction.

12 is far too young to carry that kind of burden.

Ask the 5 year old boy how he feels, which I'm sure you've done, but try not to turn this into any more traumatizing than it already is.

Minimizing trauma is something we all widely recognize now as harmful, which it is. But maximizing it can be damaging too.

Keep an eye on the situation, but personally, I don't think 12 is old enough to be held responsible for this. Tell him he was wrong to do that certainly, and make sure he appreciates that, but don't traumatize all of them by dragging them all over the place to a head doctor.

 

[Codemaster Mike]

Am I the only one thinking "troll"?

OP, apologies if you aren't, but I think you are. Don't take it personally, if I'm wrong it just means I'm a narrow-minded fool.

This is a very real situation and no I am not a troll. I usually lurk and rarely post because most of questions have been answered in other threads hence my low post count. I rarely am at a loss for what to do. I truly searched not only this site but the internet for a solution or some direction before posting here. I'm seriously concerned for my children and do not want to do the wrong thing in regards to this.

 

[Codemaster Mike]

Jess - I firmly believe that my son knew what he was doing and the state would believe the same. My son is a fairly smart child and before I even spoke to him he stated that what he did was wrong, he didn't know why he did it and that he should go to jail. I have not made him believe he is broken in any way. I explained to him that his body is going through changes and hormones are very powerful. I framed this like a mistake he could easily recover from. I also told him that I still love him and will support him but what he did was an unacceptable way to satisfy his curiousity. He was upset even though I was calm. I do agree that psychiatric help isn't required and would be detrimental to the situation plus I don't want CPS or any legal ramifications as those won't help the situation.

The five year old was upset but who knows how much damage has been done to him. I also think he is too young for therapy and he is naturally a very closed up child due to physical and emotional abuse at the hands of my wife's ex.

 

[JessFR]

Sounds like you've done everything as best you could. It's a tough situation and I don't envy it.

Hopefully as they both grow up they will find peace with what happened.

I don't know what else you can do apart from keeping an eye on it.

It's hard to know what he believed, is it possible that him saying he should go to jail is him thinking it's what you expect from him? As in, he thinks you want him to see what was wrong, in itself giving him an understanding that it was wrong, but not comprehending how wrong.

I guess what I'm getting at, is children can know something is wrong without appreciating why it's wrong.

I don't know if I'd jump to the conclusion that he's suffered any kind of sexual abuse, but at the very least he sounds sexually confused, not regarding his orientation but just with what it means. Definitely sounds like an opportunity to discuss human sexuality with him.

 

[Codemaster Mike]

Thank you and I have and will continue to discuss sexual expression with him. I don't think he has been abused but you never know. I plan on doing the best I can to find out tonight.

 

[Codemaster Mike]

My most sincere apologies man, you're going through a very difficult situation and didn't need me calling you a liar on top of it. I'm very ashamed of myself.

I read the post directly below this one and, though I'm not a father (yet) or have any sort of qualifications, I have been a kid, and your approach seems just about like the best possible one. Your kids are lucky to have such an intelligent, open-minded father.

I honestly thank you for your kind words. I try to be the best father I can be but due to my dependance on oxycodone I feel like I let all my kids down. I went through over a month of hell to get better to be a stronger, more supportive father that all my children can look up too. This is the only situation as a parent that I have encountered where I was (and still kind of am) at a loss as what the best possible approach. There is no standard to judge myself on and I honestly didn't know. Both mothers are more emotionally tied and while I know that this wasn't okay I do understand the power of puberty and hormones on a young boy. I am do blame myself for fostering and enviroment that cultivatated and permitted this to happen but I am glad we caught it when we did. I want the best of both boys and they were very close prior to this incident. My son plays with him when no one else will, taught him how to ride a bike and so on. I am just hoping this isn't a mental issue or character flaw. If he seems sexually deviant, obsessed with sexualality or shows sexual predator characteristics I will be forced to put him in treatment. I am also insuring that all the kids are supervised at all times.

 

[Lysis]

Should I contact a pyschiatrist and put him in therapy/treatment to find out the root cause and why he would do something like this? I will try to find out if he was touched or abused tomorrow. I think no matter what I learn that I should get him in to see a doc.

Well, I dunno how it works, but in my friend's case, his son had a breakdown in the school counselor's office. Because of that, they offered him free 12-weeks of counseling. Talk to the school. They might offer something similar. There are no drugs or anything and the lady comes to the house and talks with the kid for about an hour. The kid is doing a lot better from what I can see.

 

[RobotRipping]

I really don't think the 5 year old will have any lasting damage from this little experiment. If it continued for years and years then i'd say yes. You wouldn't believe the weird sexual experiments conducted by me and by others during my child hood, kids explore their body and when they are older their own sexuality and i think it was merely circumstance that led to this issue.

The kids are living too closely together, especially showering together and sharing rooms, and that is the result of a shitty circumstance. It's no one's fault, the 12 year needs the most attention IMO the 5 year old will remember it but it's not a big deal. The amount of gay-type stuff i did when i was 5 is strange as hell to think about but totally normal. So maybe the 5 year old won't think much about it but he may end up experimenting with other kids, you just have to watch them and not be judgmental and probably avoid a psych and CPS.

Just because a website says if it's more than 5 years apart it makes it sexual abuse is not anything to worry about, that's called an appeal to authority and is a fallacy, there are no rules set in stone for this stuff. If they weren't so close together, showering and sleeping in the same room this probably wouldn't have happened. Not to blame you but it's just the circumstance they are in and is not a big of a deal as you are making it to be. Since you seem open minded and willing to speak honestly with the kids i think this will all turn out fine and i doubt your 12 year old will be a sexual predator.

And as terrible as it may be this could be some kind of cry for attention. With both parents being opiate dependent and living in such a strange living situation, some weird stuff is going to happen. I can see a child not getting enough attention in these kinds of situations, especially if you are high all the time. So start paying shit loads of attention to the 12 year old, he needs it IMO and at that age all 12 year olds need a lot of attention, they are developing and changing and need guidance more so than a 5-10 year old. I'm not saying you can't be a good parent while on opiates but you have to make sure your priorities are straight and that things are being looked after properly. As well, the unstable living environment, living with two moms, this kind of shit screws kids up more than sexual experimentation.

12 years old was the turning point for me, my family life went to shit, dad attempted suicide multiple times and i'll never be the same. Before that i was one of those happy go lucky kids, afterwards i was dark, quiet and strange which led eventually to monstrous drug addictions. A 12 year old needs as much stability as possible in their lives, just be open, honest and communicate and i'm sure things will be okay, even if the circumstances are a bit fucked up.

 

[B1tO'RoughJack]

^Great post - I totally relate to a lot of it!

That's natural experimental behaviour. Unfortunately your son is much older so it is predatory, but he's young so you can curb that fairly easily (unless he's been abused) with the right nurturing and appropriate discipline sorry to hear that all round though - I KNEW you were going to mention porn as soon as I read the title.

How did he get hold of pornography? I suggest you find out and make sure it doesn't happen again.

I'm sure you know that the girls and boys should not be sleeping together. At all.

Just because he is experimenting with boys does not mean he is gay - it is called EXPERIMENTATION. HE is most likely bisexual though, as 12 is relatively high in development.

A friend of mine said that even though he wasn't "gay" he had experimented in his childhood - it's normal part of development to play doctors and nurses etc. I personally homo-experimented myself when I was younger (hetero much younger)- more like 9/10, and consider myself bisexual.

Regarding sexuality - I think you need to forget about definitions now - that's his job for when he is older - as long as your attitude doesn't change, and you show your are open to people of all orientations as well as stating it, he shouldn't have much problem with working things out.

I initially thought you were going overboard on the rules - but nah man, as long as you are nurturing and loving in the rules, and clearly state the reasons why you have implemented them, he should feel loved not punished. He will for the moment need your influence as a father more than the others to curb this abhorrent behaviour though - more father/son skill time I reckon

I totally agree with Lysis about getting to the bottom of where he learnt this and that, and if he is being abused - it is USUALLY someone close by - if not a relative like an uncle, then a neighbour or a teacher. cFind out if he is happy at school, and ask him about all his teachers - ask who his favourites are and the ones he doesn't like. If he has been abused he will probably try and hide it, and be shameful or at least very scared of the bully. Let's pray it hasn't happened.

You caught it while they are young, so you are not blind - it will not happen again, and just remember whilst the age difference is a bit shocking, it is experimentation, not premeditated predation, and therefore it is still relatively innocent, and should be straightforward with dealing with it(unless there has been abuse) - I do find it odd he has only experimented with the 5 year old - have your bird talk to her girls maybe?

GOOD LUCK - I can tell you live your children.

Hello All,

I apologize if this is in the wrong place. If it needs to be moved then please feel free to do so.

I am in desperate need of some advice. First some background. I have a large family with 4 children. We have two girls and two boys and their ages are 12 year old boy (my son from a previous relationship), 11 year old girl, 7 year old girl and 5 year old boy (all three hers from a previous relationship). We have had some problems as a family including losing both of our jobs and both me and my wife being very dependant on opiates for the past 2 years. We have both gotten off the opiates and have begun to repair the damage a longterm addiction will cause. We lost our home while still being addicted and were able to move in with my baby's mom (I know it sounds like a problem waiting to happen but we are all adults and I would say friends now). We have been hear about 3 months and I have a job now so we are trying to get things fixed. Now onto my issue.

My 12 year old is in the middle of puberty but him and my five year old play together quite a bit. We allowed them to shower together out of convenience (two boys shower then two girls) and occasionally the five year old sleeps in the room with my son, the 12 year old, to keep him from having to sleep with the girls and watch their shows.

Well tonight my son's mother went in his room to tell him good night and found both boys under the blanket naked. They were apparantly experimenting with touching and french kissing. The youngest said that it was my son's idea and that he had found a magazine that showed people having sex and that my son wanted to try the stuff on him. My son instantly knew he was in the wrong because he was apologizing and crying and obviously very upset (from the sexual activity or from being caught??). He said he was curious and that it was the five year old's idea. He said the five year old asked him what making out with girls was like and he was showing him. Both kids agreed that this was the first time anything like this had happened.

I have set rules that my son will now shower alone, sleep alone, always have the door to his room open and not spend the night at anyones house. I also asked the girls seperately if he had touched them in any way and feel confident that when they said no it is the truth. In fact, all questioning was done seperately. I told him that I was very disappointed and that what he did was considered abuse. He took advantage of the five year old for his own sexual satisfaction and while he says he is not gay, I am beginning to have doubts. I have expressed clearly that if he is attracted to other boys that is okay and I will still love him the same.

I am not sure what else to do or say and need some clear advice. I don't want to handle this the wrong way. Thank you for listening and I look forward to the replies. I will answer any questions that I can in hopes that it improves the advice that I get.

 

[Codemaster Mike]

Thank you for the continued responses and I understand and please continue to post with any new ideas, advice and/or critical comments. I know the living situation isn't ideal but stepmom and I are off of the oxycodone and working to fix this. We will break up the showers and fix the sleeping arrangement as much as possible but the 12 year old will sleep alone. He did not share a bed but did share a room and I also shared a room with my brother the whole of my childhood so I didn't recognize this as a problem. I am having a long talk with the oldest when he gets home from school but I am trying to be understanding. He is going through a lot and I don't want to make the situation worse but I am also going to try to get to the bottom of if he has been touched or molested by a peer or an adult. I am also going to speak with the five year old and minimalize the situation to him but he is very difficult to talk to so this may take a some work. My wife and I also plan on expanding the quality time spent with the oldest two especially to really try to reconnect with them in a postive manner. Oldest girl has some lying and compulsive eating issues that need to be worked on as well and my wife will also talk again to the girls. They are very open and I don't think they could hide something like that (probably the most logical reason he chose the five year old, as he is the most closed off and introverted of the three) for any length of time. We will not seek counseling unless he shows additional sever sexual compulsion or predatory behaviour.

Thank everyone again as I have never been so lost on how to approach a situation regarding my children. I do want them all to recover from this incident and while I do have relaxed views of sex and experimentation, a lot of my family members and people close to me were sexually abused. This is not acceptable behaviour and my sex play at that age was mutual with peers (male and female). I didn't touch the males but we did comparasions and played with ourselves while together in the same room/area. I don't want to demonize him and definitely don't want to make things worse but this cannot happen again without drastic action being taken to not only protect all children that come in contact with him. I will not hold this over his head is his development from here on out is normal and no matter his orientation I will love him the same.

 

[alasdairm]

There's no reason to shame him or punish him too severely, that will only cause him problems later in life - just talk to him.

this. nicely put.

alasdair

 

[amnesiaseizure]

What about the five year old? I did emphasize that what he did was wrong as the five year old isn't able to defend himself in any way from the older sibling. You also didn't mention that this sexual act has a victim involved. I let him know I still love him but that using someone in that way is not okay. He can have total privacy if he wants to explore his own body and he has my full attention with as accurate information as I can supply about sex. This is potentially long-term/lifetime damage for the five year old and you chalking it up to just being kids is a bit troublesome and a bit too flippant for the situation. You seem more concerned with the oldest psychological state of mind while I am seriously concerned about both boys. I am trying protect each child and definitely don't want sex to viewed as bad or to cause some complex in him. I do think I can handle this in house and correct the behaviour since I believe we caught it the first time but I know too many victims of sexual abuse and fully know the lifelong consequences to let my son be a perpetuator of it.

And I don't consider them sanctions. They were things I should have made sure were done prior to him starting puberty. I realize that and have corrected my mistake.

Apologies if you think me flippant, i realise it can seem a complicated issue but i'm just not sure it is. In terms of the 5 year old, do you know that he was a true 'victim' in this? Was he physically hurt or felt bullied? I hate to say this as i can imagine your reaction but is there a chance that he enjoyed it at all? What I'm trying to say is that most sexual activity is basically playful until adults put their own spin on it. Before then its simply touching parts that feel sensitive and generally exploring the body. Sorry if I've not registered parts of your post properly but i think i just wanted you to look at the situation from another angle. I'm also worried the 12 year old is going to get labelled as sexually deviant which will probably incur more damage than the 5 year old has experienced.

 

[amnesiaseizure]

I don't know if I'd jump to the conclusion that he's suffered any kind of sexual abuse, but at the very least he sounds sexually confused, not regarding his orientation but just with what it means. Definitely sounds like an opportunity to discuss human sexuality with him.

At that age i think most kids are pretty confused by sex, no? They've got their bodies telling them one thing and society telling them quite another.

I think the fact both boys were upset when you found them doesn't necessarily mean they internally knew it was wrong. Your own attitudes to sex as a family will have been brought to bear the minute he knew that you knew. Even if you weren't angry he would have known the type of judgement you held from all the previous communication you had about sex be it verbal or non verbal over the years beforehand.

You do sound like a caring and concernsd parent so please don't think im attacking you. It's great you're asking for advice but be sure to listen to it with as open a mind as possible.

 

[Lysis]

Apologies if you think me flippant, i realise it can seem a complicated issue but i'm just not sure it is. In terms of the 5 year old, do you know that he was a true 'victim' in this? Was he physically hurt or felt bullied? I hate to say this as i can imagine your reaction but is there a chance that he enjoyed it at all? What I'm trying to say is that most sexual activity is basically playful until adults put their own spin on it. Before then its simply touching parts that feel sensitive and generally exploring the body. Sorry if I've not registered parts of your post properly but i think i just wanted you to look at the situation from another angle. I'm also worried the 12 year old is going to get labelled as sexually deviant which will probably incur more damage than the 5 year old has experienced.

I'm sure he did not put all the details in his post. If he's really this distraught, I would take him at his word that it is a serious issue. Blowing things off and sweeping them under the rug is also a bad way of dealing with it. It should be addressed delicately in an effort to make sure there is no effect and if there is then he should act. I get what you're saying, but trying to blow it off can do more damage if something did in fact bother either of them.

 

[knotryder]

You've already done to much, you've turned experimentation into forbidden fruit. Good god man chill, Predator? the kids 12 for god's sake, you watch to much TV. While you living arrangement's aren't ideal you could modify them so that all the boys aren't sleeping with each other and showering together but turn off the TV stop blaming your drug addiction, give the kid some serious one on one dad time, let him know that he can talk about sex with you (Can you imagine talking about sex with your father, at any age?) But man the kids in the throws of puberty the time to see whats what to experiment to do "stuff" not to have his world tossed in the air like a salad. Why the open door ? You are going to create a monster, if you haven't already. Leave him alone. Teach him right from wrong. And lastly of course he cried when he was caught. When you were a kid didf your mom ever catch you masturbating? You hardly need advice from some online forum you need help from your girlfriend/sometime wife Discuss it with her.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I don't come here often - and actually the only reason I did was because I thought that you had a sexual desire for 12 year old boys! However, after reading through your thread I sympathise with your situation and although I'm not a parent I can only offer my advise and experience regarding this issue.

When I was 12 I did the whole "experimenting" thing with boys - I think it may have even been earlier. I got my penis out and we all had a good giggle and jerked each other off so to speak. I look back at it now and think my god what was I doing/thinking? Although the boy I did it with wasn't 5 years old, I can even go back further than this to when I was around 7-8 and I was playing with a girl, who was 10, and she was again playing with my penis and I was touching and looking at her vagina with a lot of French kissing - thinking what we were doing was having sex. Now, at both of those times it was merely curiosity and I was a kid, not sure on anything, and fortunately nobody caught me in the act. However if I had of been caught in the act and separated from my friends or that girl who was also a friend of mine, I don't know how I would have ended out. I couldn't imagine anything worse than being seperated and removed from what used to be normal. It would have probably had quite a substantial knock on effect later on, and in fact it allowed me to get that whole curiosity thing out of my head and mind for good. At the time with the boy I kind of enjoyed it (well who wouldn't) but at the same time I realised it wasn't for me. It stuck to me for the next week or two and the other boy I did it with was embarrassed too, and we made a promise to never tell anyone and we didn't and nothing happened. We are both straight individuals - although I don't know the bloke anymore or the girl who I played around with when I was younger. While your son did engage with a much younger boy, I think curiosity got the better of him. I don't think he is a sexual predator at all. However, if you now separate him from how he used to behave he will take up a rebellious attitude toward the subject not just now but later down the line as well I believe.

If you're really convinced that your son did not force himself upon the other boy, and that he was really doing it out of curiosity's sake, you should accept that and continue on as normal. Don't bang into into his head that he is evil, bad or immortal etc.

I wouldn't worry too much about it either. Don't let it get to you or consume you.