Is Methylone an ether of Methcathinone?

[maumakmak]

I just read an article where someone was arrested because of Methylone possession.
Methylone is not illegal there, but authorities claimed that Methylone is an ether of Methcathinone and as ethers of controlled substances are also illegal by the local law the person was arrested.
I never heard that Methylone is an ether of Methcathinone.
Can anyone confirm that this is really true?
Thanks!

 

[sekio]

Methylone is a ketone analogue of MDMA in addition to being a ring-substituted derivative (an ether is one way to put it since it is an alkyl group bridged by oxygen) of methcathinone.

It also produces similar effects to methcathinone/MDMA so yeah it's an analog.

 

[vecktor]

I don't know where you are specifically and there might be some local precedence for this kind of wrong headed reasoning, but it is impossible to have an ether of methcathinone because an ether is structurally derived from a phenol or alcohol --OH by replacement of the H with R where R is an alkyl group, so the charge is baseless. Any organic chemist will back this as will a forensic chemist.

 

[biocloudy]

I am curious what jurisdiction this happened in. In the US state level analog acts are starting to pop up, dumping prosecution decisions in the lap of a district attorney who maybe took high school chemistry. I suspect the "battle of the experts" that we will start to see in the state courts will quickly slow down the number of prosecutions. As poe-duck nowhere county's "forensic chemist's" testimony wont stand well against a proper expert, similar to what we have seen in federal cases. Its important to remember often times they just make stuff up as they go along in the legal system. I am curious to see the article, i suspect they gave it their on the street Methcathinone test, it was positive and that was good enough for them.

 

[23536]

Hire vecktor as your expert witness

the intention of the law was probably to include the alkoxy analogues

can you quote the law? I've never seen a law explicitly pre-empting ethers.

(I'm starting a collection of all the bizarre new drug laws; this would sit right next to Oregon's new law prohibiting all cannabinoid receptor agonists)

biocloudy's post is good, but in the US it's all about what the jury thinks

 

[biocloudy]

(I'm starting a collection of all the bizarre new drug laws; this would sit right next to Oregon's new law prohibiting all cannabinoid receptor agonists)

This is how Minnesota law looks at the issue:

MN Statute 152.02 Sub. 2: (6) Unless specifically excepted or unless listed in another schedule, any material compound, mixture, or preparation which contains any quantity of the following substances having a stimulant effect on the central nervous system, including its salts, isomers, and salts of isomers whenever the existence of such salts, isomers, and salts of isomers is possible within the specific chemical designation:
Cathinone;
Methcathinone.

I think that is sufficiently clear of bk-mdma. It is also clear that the legislative intent of the compound run on is to address different salts or preparations not chemicals that are potentially analogous. But of course, this is just the Minnesota way and in Minnesota we love our Khat. Who knows what jurisdiction OP's article takes place in.

The Minnesota Senate recently proposed SF No. 7 that goes on to address any 'substance that is a cannabinoid receptor agonist'. Completely silly, but who needs science. Not to get too off topic: I went to a public meeting put on by one of the sponsors of this legislation, it was a circus act warning of 12 year olds doing pounds of spice and then promptly dying. Our kids.. Your Kids... Dead Kids...

 

[23536]

small note: the US controlled substances act co-schedules any ether of a listed opiate (unless the ether is separately listed). The same goes for any ether of a listed anabolic steroid.

It doesn't currently make this distinction for stimulants or "hallucinogens".

The Minnesota Senate recently proposed SF No. 7 that goes on to address any 'substance that is a cannabinoid receptor agonist'.

flush your echinacea before it's too late

 

[maumakmak]

Thank's for your replies.
I would like to have this issue sorted out 100%, so here are the necessary informations:
3 persons were arrested at the Austrian/Swiss boarder train station. They have purchased a large amount of Methylone in Switzerland shortly before it was made illegal there and were just on the way back to Estonia where they came from.
In a random check the Austrian police found the Methylone in their luggage and they were arrested on the claim that Metyhlone is an ether of Methcathinone and is therefore illegal here.

The austrian drug law is simple and there are no analogues laws or catch all clauses here. There are also no precedence cases like in the US or anything like this.
It is basically just a long list of compounds that are illegal and every now and then they add a new one to the list.
At the end of this list there is a paragraph saying that the following are also illegal
.) The isomers of the above drugs
.) The esters and ethers of the above drugs
.) The salts of the above drugs, including the possible salts of the esters, ethers and salts of isomers

As most people here believe that Methylone is legal, while on the other hand at least some authorities seem to think that Metyhlone is an ether of Methcathinone and therefore illegal, I would like to have this question answered bullet proof (if possibe).

Vector seems to be sure that it is impossible for Methylone to be an ether of Methcathinone.
On the other hand sekio wrote that it is a ring-substituted derivative and ether would be one way to put it, since it is an alkyl group bridged by oxygen.
So who is right now?
Is the definition of ether really a 100% thing or is there a margin where one could claim it would be an ether while someone else thinks it's not an ether?
I would just like to know for sure if Methylone can be regarded as en ether of Methcathinone and therefore being illegal by the above law definition, or if this is just a mistake made by the police.

 

[Alcyone]

From a chemist's perspective, methylone is not by any stretch of the imagination an ether of methcathinone. One could say it's an ether of 3,4-dihydroxymethcathinone, though.

From a legal perspective, I'm not so sure.

 

[Hyperthesis]

can you quote the law? I've never seen a law explicitly pre-empting ethers.

Not? Have a look at the GERMAN version, in which after each Schedule-list follows the phrase:

"...esters, ethers and molecular compounds of the compounds named in this annex, if they are not already included on their own and the existence of such esters, ethers and molecular compounds is possible."
​

Despite some chemical education, I have no idea what "molecule compounds" is referring to. It's quite an unusual term and there's no clear definition in German for it.

Maumakmak reported a case at the Swiss/Austrian border, hence we might have a look at the respective jurisdiction. The SWISS version includes explicitly the clause that:

"Chapter 1
Article 1
...
Clause 3
On a par with the aforementioned narcotics within the meaning of this law, [morphine, cocaine, cannabis], are psychotropic and habitforming substances. Among these are
a) hallucinogens like LSD and mescaline;
b) central stimulants of the amphetamine-type;
c) central sedatives of the barbiturate- or benzodiazepine-type;
d) any other compound, whose action resembles one of the compound named in a)-c);
e) Preparations containing compounds of a)-d)"

Clause 4 The 'Swiss Agency for Therapeutic Products' will issue a list with all compounds and preparations within the meaning of Clause 3 and 4."​

While methylone is already included in b) of clause 3, a look into the list mentioned in clause 4 (current version from 1.12.2010) confirms that methylone and methcathinon are both explicitly included, and marked Code d, which reads:

"Prohibited substances, which are neither marketable nor prescribable."​

That equals VERBOTEN!

And what say our AUSTRIAN friends? Mephedrone is explicitly forbidden since 21.8.2010. Furthermore does the Austrian include the same phrase like the German. Have fun guessing what they mean with "molecular compounds."

 

[maumakmak]

And what say our AUSTRIAN friends? Mephedrone is explicitly forbidden since 21.8.2010. Furthermore does the Austrian include the same phrase like the German. Have fun guessing what they mean with "molecular compounds."

@Hyperthesis: Mephedrone is explicitely illegal in Austria, but this thread is about Methylone which is not explicitely listed in the Austrian drug law. Think you got a mixup here.

They were arrested on the austrian side at the train station near the border, so it's definitely a case for austrian law.

If it is 100% sure that from a chemist point of view Methylone is not an ether (or ester) of Methcathinone, then the authorities are wrong in this case.


In regard to the term "molecular compounds connection" (Molekülverbindung) I searched the internet a bit and found an explaination which makes sense to me.
What they (should) basically mean is an adduct of two chemical compounds.
An example would be Coffein-Natriumbenzoat.
So basically two different chemical compounds (molecules) connected. The automatic translation for "Molekühlverbindung" as "molecule compounds" is wrong and it should rather say "molecule connections"
So Methylone would also not be a "Molekülverbindung" of Methcathinone as it is not a connection of two different chemical substances but a single chemical substance.

 

[Hyperthesis]

I didn't mix up anything. I just pointed out that mephedrone is illegal and the Austrian law contains phrases, which could be interpreted in a way that allows arresting somebody who carries this chemical over the Swiss/Austrian border.

I am deadsure that the term "Molekülverbindung" is not precisely defined in German. And in contrary to your definition says the one I found that "molecular compound/connection" is more or less defined as the contrary to an ionic derivative (read: salt), that is the contrary to what you just wrote! Hence, methylone can indeed be interpreted as "molecule compound" of mephedrone.

 

[23536]

this is dumb. The methylone molecule has ether linkages, but it is not an ether of methcathinone. For perspective on something that is an ether of something else, see morphine and codeine:

In case it's not patently obvious, compare to methcathinone & methylone:

 

[Hyperthesis]

^No doubt about that. The question if methylone is an ether of methcathinone resp. mephedrone was already answered by Vecktor in post #3; in short: it isn't. Ethers are derivatives of aromatic or aliphatic alcohols.

 

[23536]

some of the US laws are well-written in this respect. For instance:

Opium, opiates, derivatives of opium and opiates, including
their isomers, esters, ethers, salts, and salts of isomers,
esters, and ethers, whenever the existence of such isomers,
esters, ethers, and salts is possible within the specific
chemical designation.

If that phrase were appended to the Austrian law, the matter would be a bit clearer.

("isomers" is defined in another section)

 

[(zonk)]

This is how Minnesota law looks at the issue:

MN Statute 152.02 Sub. 2: (
The Minnesota Senate recently proposed SF No. 7 that goes on to address any 'substance that is a cannabinoid receptor agonist'. Completely silly, but who needs science. Not to get too off topic: I went to a public meeting put on by one of the sponsors of this legislation, it was a circus act warning of 12 year olds doing pounds of spice and then promptly dying. Our kids.. Your Kids... Dead Kids...

So i guess that would make chocolate, Oni, animals in general, and oleamide related compounds, and a few NSAIDs illegal, damn, i really liked chocolate , well i guess animals aren't substances

 

[biocloudy]

I figured I would join the battle of the bluelight experts and agree with Vecktor and 235360287471352662... Methylone is not a ether of Methcathinone, from a chemical perspective.

These people should hire good attorneys and Ph.D. medicinal chemists from the closest university or institute to the site of adjudication, if there is justice in this jurisdiction it will get sorted out, if not it was nice to know you.

 

[ahura999]

Arrested by australian federal police importation border controlled substance

Hi all would like to start a serious discussion , lets say SWIM , has been arrested by austraalian federal police , they say that its 3kg of 3,4,METHYLENEDIOXYMETHCATHINONE , an analogue of METHCATHINONE, an AMPHETAMINE !!!

IT WAS METHYLONE FROM ASIA , THIS I KNOW 100 %

FROM WIKIPEDIA :

Methylone, also known as "M1", 3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylcathinone, bk-MDMA, MDMC, and in the UK as Arlone, is an entactogen and stimulant of the phenethylamine, amphetamine, and cathinone classes. It was originally patented by Peyton Jacob and Alexander Shulgin in 1996 as an antidepressant.[1] The more intuitive abbreviation MDMC unfortunately can not be used for this chemical, since it had already been given to another earlier Shulgin creation, 3,4-ethylenedioxymethamphetamine. Methylone is a close structural analogue of MDMA, differing by the addition of a β-ketone group.[2]

SWIM HAS 6 COUNTS "IMPORTATION BORDER CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE
'

MAX 60YEARS !!!

COME ON GUYS WHO KNOWS THER SHIT AUSTRALIAAN SCHEDULE 4, 8 AND REG 5 .

THE ANALOGUES ACT

PLEASE I HAVE NO LEGAL REPRESENTAION, I CANNOT AFFORD IT .

 

[nuke]

Australia and its judges are pretty harsh for drug offenses, and their analogue act covers most of these cathinones I think. Find money, find a lawyer, and if you can't do that, try to work out some kind of a plea bargain. I'm not a lawyer though, you really need professional legal advice.

 

[melange]

"hey guys, if it looks and sounds like a drug let's just make it illegal even though we have no basis for doing so because we have never even heard of said drugs"

analogue laws are fucking dumb