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Is methylone an analog of mdma?

stating what country is in question could probably help

im guessing USA
 
MeDieViL said:
Yes, its just MDMA with a beta ketone group.
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Its not as simple as that. Being very close from a chemical standpoint is 1 part of the analog law. The other part is that it has to produce similar effect. I would argue that methylone and MDMA are not similar in terms of effects. Methylone is pretty much a straight stimulant whereas MDMA produces a much wider array of effects, least of which being the empathogenic aspect. -DG
 
lane321 said:
Using the analog law please give arguments both for and against.

http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/dll/fed_analog_memo1.htm
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Methylone would be considered an analog of MDMA if the prosecution had evidence that its possession or distribution was performed with the intent that humans would consume the substance.

daddysgone, how many times have you tried methylone? It's every bit as empathogenic as MDMA...

Standing alone, a quantity of methylone is an unscheduled chemical.
 
Coolio said:
Methylone would be considered an analog of MDMA if the prosecution had evidence that its possession or distribution was performed with the intent that humans would consume the substance.

daddysgone, how many times have you tried methylone? It's every bit as empathogenic as MDMA...

Standing alone, a quantity of methylone is an unscheduled chemical.
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I have not tried it. My understanding from reports Ive read here was that it was a fairly 1-dimensional stimulant and lacked the empathogenic aspects of MDMA. Assuming what you are saying is true (I dont doubt that it is) then I am mistaken and thank you for correcting me.

Everything else Coolio said is correct as well. An analog which is not specifically scheduled is not in and of itself, illegal. It is perfectly legal to possess or sell methylone (or any analog which is not specifically scheduled) if their is no intent for human use. It only becomes illegal once intent for human use has been demonstrated.
And in case you are thinking of trying to get clever with the whole intent aspect, let me advise you it would be extremely difficult to present a convincing case that your possession of methylone or something similar was not for human use.-DG
 
I beleive it has to be "for human consumption" AND "substantially similar" in effects AND chemical structure.

So for the sake of argument lets assume human consumption can be proven.

Is methylone "subtantially similar" in chemical structure and effects to mdma? Why? Why not?
 
Of course it is. They're nearly interchangeable. They're both empathogens, stimulants, and active at the same doses. Adding an oxygen isn't enough to make it substantially not similar structurally.

There's some precedent from the AET case that a secondary amine and a tertiary amine are NOT substantially similar structurally though. So 3,4-methylenedioxy-N,N-dimethylcathinone might not be an analog even if it has identical stimulant and hallucinatory effect and the same dosage.
 
Even if MDMA and methylone arent simular, the fact that they produce a high would be enough for a anti drug judge to say the effects are simular.
 
MeDieViL said:
Even if MDMA and methylone arent simular, the fact that they produce a high would be enough for a anti drug judge to say the effects are simular.
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What does what the judge says have to do with anything? Trials are decided by juries in the USA.

The case law shows that you're completely wrong. An analog as per the FAA has to to specifically produce a substantially similar or greater HALLUCINATORY, STIMULANT, or DEPRESSANT effect. A subjective "high" has nothing to do with it. Objective measures of 5-HT2a agonism, norepinephrine or dopamine reuptake or release, GABA agonism, etc. would have to be demonstrated by the prosecution to beat a proper legal defense.
 
MeDieViL said:
Even if MDMA and methylone arent simular, the fact that they produce a high would be enough for a anti drug judge to say the effects are simular.
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Absurd statement on so many levels.
By your logic, any chemical that has existed, exists, or will exist, that produces a "high" (whatever that means), would be illegal.-DG
 
Coolio said:
What does what the judge says have to do with anything? Trials are decided by juries in the USA.

The case law shows that you're completely wrong. An analog as per the FAA has to to specifically produce a substantially similar or greater HALLUCINATORY, STIMULANT, or DEPRESSANT effect. A subjective "high" has nothing to do with it. Objective measures of 5-HT2a agonism, norepinephrine or dopamine reuptake or release, GABA agonism, etc. would have to be demonstrated by the prosecution to beat a proper legal defense.
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That proper legal defense is what I want to see.

For instance as per effects could one make an argument that they arent similar by stating that if one consumed equal amounts of both the effects would be completely different? If someone consumed 100mg of pure mdma they would feel heavy effects. However if one consumed 100mg of pure methylone they may not feel anything at all. So that being the case are the effects of each "substantially similar"?

What is interesting is that cases which involve the same chemicals (GHB and 1,4 - Butanediol) have gone both ways. The first case that was tried was won by the defense but in the two subsequent cases the prosecution prevailed.
 
MDMA is VERY questionably more potent than methylone... have you even tried them side by side? Your postulate that 100mg of methylone wouldn't be felt sounds crazy to me. And 100mg of MDMA doesn't produce effects that I'd consider 'heavy' in comparison to a similar dose of methylone...
 
Coolio said:
MDMA is VERY questionably more potent than methylone... have you even tried them side by side? Your postulate that 100mg of methylone wouldn't be felt sounds crazy to me. And 100mg of MDMA doesn't produce effects that I'd consider 'heavy' in comparison to a similar dose of methylone...
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eh. perhaps the mdma you've had hasn't been as pure as your methylone?

The mdma I've had has almost always been quite strong at 100mg.
 
A normal "full dose" of MDMA is 120mg. 80mg is a weak pill.

A normal "full dose" of methylone seems to be 150mg or 180mg for most people.

Those figures are pretty close, and almost impossible to determine if my opinion of them is correct.

As we all know, some people eat 10 E pills at once, and some people eat 500mg of methylone at once.
 
daddysgone said:
Absurd statement on so many levels.
By your logic, any chemical that has existed, exists, or will exist, that produces a "high" (whatever that means), would be illegal.-DG
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I was only referring to chemicals that are chemically related (like methylone is the beta ketone version of MDMA). And if this chemical is psychoactive it could be considered an analogue.

Wich is wrong according to coolio as the high needs to be simular too. I'm not aware of the laws in America.
 
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Whoever said Methylone is a straight stimulant is pretty far off the mark. Methylone does not stimulate me AT ALL (in fact, on the contrary, it kills my sense of balance). It's quite a powerful empathogen though.
 
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