is methamphetamine an empathogen?

[5-HT2]

Let me preface this by saying that I have never done meth before. However, I have quite a bit of experience with ampethamine, cocaine, and methylphenidate. I do not find those substances to be empathogenic in the slightest, though coke and methylphenidate do block serotonin reuptake to a small degree. In fact, I consider them anti-empathogens, as the appetitive rush of dopamine can only reinforce the ego. On the other hand, MDMA relaxes the ego to the point where it can be immersed in waves of emotion.
fairnymph just made the surprising claim that meth is an empathogen. For someone as experienced as she with altered states of consciousness, I am surprised that she came to this conclusion. Tweaked-out euphoria does not equal empathy. Speaking as an outside observer, seeing users of meth babble their heads off in a "philosophical discussion" is not even remotely close to the emotional vibe I get when I see people on MD class drugs doing the same thing. I myself have had these kind of tweaked out discussions on all the stimulants I have tried, and its much more of an ego war on stimulants than on empathogens.

 

[Brainrape]

Methamphetamine can definitley act as an empathogen at times, it just takes the right dose and conditions. I think you'd be hard pressed to find an experienced meth user who would deny that, and of course, the only reason that claim surprises you so much is beacuse, as you stated in your preface, you have never tried meth...
After you have some experience with the drug, I think you will easily see how meth's ability to act as an empahtogen at times, while not as overwhelming as ecstasy, is fairly self-evident and obvious...
Now, unlike ecstasy, which to me, is basically pure empathy in a pill, meth's primary and most common effects are not empathogenic in nature, unless the right conditions are met. Personally, at the point where meth begins to drift towards that empathogenic vein is at the point where all the positive/productive aspects I love about it fly out the fucking window. For instance, I rarely if ever use meth recreationally, it's primarily to help me focus and study, and at that level, it's emapthogenic qualities aren't really evident at all...
But I could easily argue that on the occasions that I have IV'd or eaten 1/4 a gram or more recreationally, for all practical purposes it's almost like I'm rolling, it's quite strong. Also, the only ways to really reach that level in my experience is with IV or oral use...
Brainrape

 

[fairnymph]

My dear Rudi, how I love our lover's quarrels (hehehe...).
From www.dictionary.com :

empathetic
adj : showing empathy or ready comprehension of others' states; "a sensitive and empathetic school counselor" [syn: empathic]
em·pa·thy
n.
1. Identification with and understanding of another's situation, feelings, and motives. See Synonyms at pity.
2. The attribution of one's own feelings to an object.
Empathogens have an empathetic quality. Methamphetamine does induce the user to "comprehend others' states" more easily -- I definitely feel that I am more receptive and sensitive while tweaking. I feel noticeably more sympathetic of others and I feel more bonded to them as well. Not extraordinarily so, not like MDMA, but still noticeably.
Thus, while I do not think that meth is nearly as empathogenic as MDMA, but I would still classify it as a mild empathogen. Perhaps this quality is brought out by doing it orally, as I typically do it. Still, I would say even snorted, and certainly IVed, meth has noticeable empathogenic qualities.
Note - I do not find that methylphenidate/ritalin, cocaine, and amphetamine to be particularily empathogenic. Only methamphetamine.

 

[quale]

Can methamphetamine act in such a way as to encourage our compassion and awareness of others internal mental states? Of course and so too can duster in some remote possibilities.
Actually it is not even clear that MDMA really falls into this category taken on its own. It facilitates the understanding of someone else's emotions not on MDMA but I feel my sober reflection on someone's emotional state is probably more accurate than my estimation on MDMA. In other words MDMA is not really an empathogen because it isn't giving us true insight (except perhaps in the state where the other person is taking MDMA).
However, the idea of an empathogen as being a substance which sometimes creates an empathic quality is clearly deffective (it would have us believing duster is an empathogen). Given the above concerns it seems only right to say that empathogen is defined (from usage) as one of those chemical substances which in its normal usage produces empathy.
MDMA certainly qualifies now but methamphetamine does not. Most meth addicts are not motivated to empathy most times they use. Ultimately of course this is merely a question of degree...I certainly feel meth is less empathogenic than ecstasy and more than duster (i.e. more likely in the course of normal use to induce empathy). If you want a precisce answer of course you need precisce terms.
Personally I have had as high of incidence of empathogenic feeling experiences on both amphetamine and cocaine as on meth, depended alot on setting and presence of alcohol/benzos.
[ 07 June 2002: Message edited by: quale ]

 

[junglist 3000]

It can act as one a lil for me, but it mainly comes from you... if u are an asshole, u probably still will be on meth.... I think ppl needing drugs to be empathic is a sad state of affairs personally.

 

[Jabberwocky]

hmm this is an interesting debate. i feel as though when on meth i tend to be a keen emotional empath. i tend to sense others needs i tend to know when they need to talk out problems and often we do have discussions or chats about emotions how they effect our lives ect. this could all be do to the fact that i have an irregular high degree of adhd and on methamphetimines i do not have that inhibiton, i might be that for once i am truely lsitening to someone. i am certainly moved by stories i should be laugh more easily and in the end i think i facilitate a deeper more open communication.
why i did stimulants last night and the next day after the stimulant wore off i hugged the guy i was talking to i felt i had a deeper understanding of him...now this could also be do to the fact that i used 4-methylaminorex
but it was quite similar in feel to how i react to meth.
-phil-

 

[PhreeX]

I guess it could technically be considered empathogenic, but stay awake for a week living off nothing but meth and I doubt you're be very empathetic...

 

[Tristan K]

i think that is just part of being "high", whether it be alcohol,strong narcotics, speed.......its just a false sense of well being(or an enhanced sense of well being), lets you relax and avoid the monotony of life for a bit

 

[Cornelia_Fabulous]

I agree with Phreex. I usually experience empathy within the first 8 hours of a tweak.
After that, any more time tweaking is spent trying to avoid the shadow people, deciphering what The People in the Air Conditioning Unit are trying to tell me, or something along those lines.
As a side note, one of my friends gets more empathy feelings from tweak than from MDMA. Freak!