Is it worth it ? (trying to give up opis)

[mydrugbuddy]

I'm completelty conflicted and in two minds about the whole thing. I have been taking various opis for about 2 or 3 years. I go through cycles of bingeing on a new substance, get all i can out of it, until it starts 'turning on me' to the point that i need it to feel normal, or when my tolerance starts getting riducoulous, and i feel bad even tanked up with opis. I then go through weeks or months of tapering down and off. These last 2 times ive got off subutex, first time i relapsed back onto it within a week, second time i relpased onto kratom within a week. Ive now been using kratom for about 10 days. It makes by day life feel so much better.

I'm sort of wondering whether i should just admit defeat, and say 'sod it, im an addict, i have no intention of stopping; i like opis and im going to continue taking them', or whether i should continue repeating the cycles i have been through with several different opis over the last 2 or 3 years. I go through all the hard work of tapering down and off, and get through the physical withdrawals, but then at the end havent been able to hold out for much more than a week, and want nothing more than to start the whole cycle off all over again.

Ive been drawing up lists of the pros and cons of using, the list of cons is much longer. Day by day life is so much easier on than off though. I guess it will take several days to weeks or even months to re-adjust. And then once i am sober, if i do achieve it, will it be even worth it ? I'll never again experience the intense flying highs of opis, I wont be able to allow myself monthly treats or something, its most likely I wont have the discipline for that. What will it be like to try to live a normal life again ?

Do i need to hit rock bottom before i decide to quit ? Sell off all my possessions etc in order to pay for opis ? Spend years lost to the habit ? Be a useless non contributing member of society, be unable to support my family and do right be them in their times of need ? Is it better to live a straight and normal life ? I dont feel ashamed of my habit, allthough due to the attitudes of 'society' i have to keep quiet about it. I would feel a sense of achievment if i did manage to quit, but cant see any more advantage than that.

Im so confused, I dont even know if i want on or off. I was hoping just making this post might clear things up and answer my own question. I guess at the end of my life if ive spend the whole of it just idling it away taking opis, im not going to feel overly great about myself.

Has anyone else felt like this ? What did you decide ? How did you decide ? Were you able to see through your decision and was it worth it ?

 

[neversickanymore]

When i used to think about use I would never look at the good points honestly.. I always made them out to be way better than they were. If you want a second opinion on weather your list is accurate or a figment of the addiction You could list it. As it might be triggering please use nsfw in brackets before the list and /nsfw in brackets after and place a trigger warning in red.

NSFW:

if this was not clear just quote this post and look at how i did it

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Trigger warning

NSFW:

Pros: daily hour by hour feeling good.
enhanced musical appreciation.
Time flies by.
Subjective feelings of belonging to a 'subculture'
energy boosts.
Confidence boost.
Feelins of invinceabilty.

Cons: domestic disorder, household chaos
no routine
difficult to make long term plans
loss of money
loss of free will
loss of control
loss of achievment and whatever potential
not using time to any effect
loss of independence
some dgeree of loss of pride
legal concerns
being unreliable
being unstable
the unsustainabilty of the habits
possible worsening mental and physical health
lazyness
lack of motivation
unable to leave the country (customs problems)
damage to reputation within my family
moodswings
poor judgement sometimes
no sense of purpose or direction
lack of sustained activity or action
possible downward spiral
not properly facing or dealing with things
lack of clarity

that was for starters off the top of my head. I think if i did quit I'd partly like to do it just to show myself i can do it, and master it, and not be a crippled slave any longer.

 

[neversickanymore]

May be triggering

NSFW:

daily hour by hour feeling good.

Do you feal that this is an honest view of how it is. When i jones to use opiates I am sent the prettiest picture.. the picture of right after administration. but there is a whole world bigger picture. There is the reality that I feal better 95% of the time now than I did 100% of the time then. It also feels amazing to feal now.. to have pleasant and negative emotions, it like when I strung out on opiates I was souless.. it like the magic part of life was gone.. yeah there is some euphoria.. but now that i look back on it I feel better after a good workout than I ever did of the opiates.. Im relaxed, happy (i have never seen someone with a physical dependence on opiates that happy.. I mean yeah I remember laughing and joking a little, but to tell you the truth my hardest laughs where probably talking with a fellow junkie about how fucked we had become, I guess its the better to laugh then cry.. shit I was just thinking about a belly crushing laugh I had with a boy of mine.. we had just been totally fucked.. someone had beat us out of the score we were trying to get, it was a blizzard, we had no money left, we were getting sick.. and the person who beat is was our fucking ride and we were two hours from home.. *laughing* two grown men rolling on the ground.. he had huge dreadlocks down to middle of his back.. sitting there laughing at how the life of physically dependent addict is "the worst thing in the world"

But know Im not fucking with you.. opaites tell you they make you feal amazing.. the only reason this seems true is becaasue of how awful we feal when adicted to them.. so with an administration of the drug we seem to feal amazing.. but the gods honest trueth is that I feel way better almost all the time than when I did back then.. do I miss that sleepy content fealing sometimes.. yeah buit when I look at it with the negatives of how it makes you feal as well it doesn't seem like that much to give up. Now it feals like im alive again.. I feal joy, excitement, hope, hapiness, the real peace.. do I feal anger, fear, sometimes even hatred, self doubt, and so many other emotions..yeah I sure do.. but I am changing my thinking and life style to limit those.. and i just look at them for what they are now.. emotions are nothing more than how the conscious mind is manipulated and by the unconscious.. so me and my unconscious have been having some battles.. but it sure has calmed down once I was able to see it game..,

constant use of opiates is like always being in a warm dark room with all cream covered walls and furniture.. yeah it feels safe and comfortable.. living as an early recovering addict is more like being shot out of a caonon on a early spring day in the mountains.. weather is always changing from sun, to rain, to sleet.. but there are colors, and sensations, and amazing scenery. If we learn the propper tequniques and change our thinking it does from the human cannon ball into a crop dustin airplane, into a jet liner in a storm and if we do it right into a hot air balloon in some windy weather.. but the scenerey and exspeirince from a hot air abllon is miles better than sitting in a warm ultra boring room.

On top of this do we really real mazing all the time on opiates.. what about all the stress of finding, getting, and useing the drug 24 seven.. how about all the stress of worring about getting busted.. how about hwo we feal the whole time inbetween admistration of the drug.. how about when the drug stops working to keep us hidden from what we wanted and now has made everything we are hiding from worse.. why does the administration of the drug make us feel so good in our minds, maybe becasue we felt so shitty before we did it.

enhanced musical appreciation.

im a big fan of music and live music.. I thought this for years.. then I relized I was nuts.. I even gave up useing tons of drugs before or during shows long before I gave up the drugs.. opiates dont make music better. Maybe a littel grass or a little x or to kisck it in or a drink or two.. but opaites make you numb and music is all about emotion.. so is this really true.

energy boosts.

I can think of tons of stuff that are better for this.. exercise, being healthy, real sleep, reg amps..

Confidence boost

this speaks world as far as the underlying root of addiction.. properly addressed by an addict and we can have confidence galore.. I had crippling social anxiety.. now I can talk to anyone and could speak infront of a stadium full of people. This is one of the major roots to addiction, but if I can fihure it out and work through it so can you.

What do you think about these alternate ways of looking at the pros of continued use of opiates after physical dependence and addiction?
IMO addction is one big delusion.. we have to see past it.. go from not wanting to use to having little desire to use.

And dont beat yourself up.. getting off the opiates is a fuck load of a hard thing.. maybe try and see it for what it actually is and just keep trying

 

[mydrugbuddy]

thank you for putting so much thought and effort into your reply, there is a hell of a lot there for me to try to digest. Being slightly opiated at the moment it is not really possible for it all to sink in properly at all. I think i need to try to kind of re-program all the thinking patterns ive picked up over the last few years.

 

[Eveleivibe]

MDB , glad you posted here. The people on SL n TDS are amazing n really go out of their way to help n provide helpful n supportive info.

When I was addicted to codeine I was convinced that life would never be worth living again without it. I though How could I have ever been happy without it??? The physical withdrawal was a walk in the park to be honest but the psychological withdrawal was a complete nightmare. I honestly felt like the world would stop turning n that life was over, completely bed ridden with grief.

Opiates get you like that. They are like the devil on your shoulder; deceitful, devious, master-manipulator. They wheel you in giving you thoughts of paradise then spit you out in the line of suffering (withdrawal). You feel that you'll only ever be sick or depressed if you don't have them but really - the opiates are making you sick.

I was hardly ever sick. And when I had the flu. (Only ever once in 1995) it was only for 3 days because I willed myself better, did not want to miss school). But when I started taking codeine I was sick a lot. I ODd on paracetamol a few times but was too afraid to go to the hospital encase I had my child taken away from me. Although I did this n was vomiting, then dry heeving I kept taking more n more codeine because that voice said "come on now you'll feel better keep taking it. I remember my 60mg tabs came on one of thise occasions n my body was actually rejecting them because I was sick having ODd with the paracetamol due to only having 8/500s until the 60s arrived. Yes I could have died n lucky I didn't.

There was another time I had taken way too much ibuprofen n paracetamol (you can get codeine with either of those in the UK), i had the worst constipation, stomach cramps, was crying on the floor wanting my Mam not telling anyone. After I started to feel better after relieving myself (sorry tried putting that politely) 2 minutes before vowing NEVER to touch codeine again I was eating lots of codeine like it was sweets n like that horrific episode had not happened.... madness!

That's why I get mad when people mock me n say "why are you on suboxone for codeine addiction" ummm because it's saving my life maybe because psychologically I can't get away from the clutches of opiates! And it's harm reduction.

My point , after all that waffling. (Sorry), is that you are an addict ( label doesn't matter) n your thinking is distorted. A part of your brain---the amydala, wants opiates n you need to separate you from "It." Something I learnt in Intuitive therapy! YOU don 't want the opiates---your amydala now believes that the opiates are as important as food n drink for survival n will do everything in its power to convince you that you need opiates n to get them now!

Do something for me please. Try to think of some times when you were happy n put them here. Times before the opiates. And write what made you feel happy about the occasion/ event. Sometimes when we put n see things in writing it put things into perspective for us.

Take care,
Evey xxxx

 

[WantToBeReborn]

MDB - I'm in that quitting process and I beg of you to truly consider what your life will be like in years to come with an opiate habit and a massive tolerance. It gets far harder on the body and mind the longer addiction goes unmanaged and the changes can be profound and the ability to thermo-regulate, experience and manage emotions and mental stability, memory, cognitive function and hormonal changes such as low testosterone in males (hypogonadism) and altered function in females can develop. The secondary complications can be life-altering/threatening, such as years spent with altered gut motility or the severe opiate constipation building up during illness/inactivity, causing emergency surgery to remove bowel sections, etc, etc.

Long term opiates and increased opiate tolerance does result in physiologically altered function. I could write a book on this.

One huge factor on top, is if God forbid, you got ill or in an accident, the huge opiate tolerance could cause massive medical issues. When huge tolerance develops, you cannot stop or withdraw other than by tiny graded reductions or it can cause rocketing blood pressure/pulse, amongst other highly dangerous issues.

So many well-known long term opiate users had heart attacks in the past. The cardio-pulmonary stress long term is huge on the body. Immuno-suppression also results, causing increased sicknesses and increased susceptibility to illness.

I can tell you a huge negative for me is that after a long time on opiates, I experienced "opioid induced hyperalgesia" whereby my body started manufacturing increasing pain, with massive tolerance on top. I also encountered, literally overnight, them stopping working and had to increase to huge daily doses just to stave off repeated and frequent withdrawals from hell. No highs either, long gone by then. I'd call it a slow, agonising death by that stage.

Get out now while you still can.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

More potential triggers.

NSFW:

yeah i used to happy with simple pleasures, like listening to music, cycling, watching movies, hiking in scenic areas, playing pool. Drugs have become embedded into all thos habits though, so when i next do them there might not be the same perceived intesnity of pleasure.

I am taking everyones points on board. Thank you for your contribution Wanttobe reborn. Some very valuable tips there that i would be foolish to ignore. I am at the tail end of quitting buprenorphine, and just accidentally found some kratom in my house about a week after stopping bupe. I might very well have succeeeded otherwise. My kratom habit is currentky very low key, 2 or 3 teaspoons once or twice a day, and its only been ten days to a fortnight.

You are right, it is best to get out asap before kratom gets its clutches into me properly. I have some job interviews next week. Im not sure whether to postpone the quit until after them. I dont want obe unwell, dpepressed, anxious or paranoid during my interviews, which are for very good opportunties, that would do me the worl of good. If i actually get offered a job, i will hopefully have some time to quit before starting the job, and also hopefully the job will take my mind of things, and having so much spare time at the moment with no job, and simply being bored is making it more difficult to stop.

This is a thread i will need to keep re-reading to keep reminding myself of the dangers.

 

[Eveleivibe]

MDB - I'm in that quitting process and I beg of you to truly consider what your life will be like in years to come with an opiate habit and a massive tolerance. It gets far harder on the body and mind the longer addiction goes unmanaged and the changes can be profound and the ability to thermo-regulate, experience and manage emotions and mental stability, memory, cognitive function and hormonal changes such as low testosterone in males (hypogonadism) and altered function in females can develop. The secondary complications can be life-altering/threatening, such as years spent with altered gut motility or the severe opiate constipation building up during illness/inactivity, causing emergency surgery to remove bowel sections, etc, etc.

Long term opiates and increased opiate tolerance does result in physiologically altered function. I could write a book on this.

One huge factor on top, is if God forbid, you got ill or in an accident, the huge opiate tolerance could cause massive medical issues. When huge tolerance develops, you cannot stop or withdraw other than by tiny graded reductions or it can cause rocketing blood pressure/pulse, amongst other highly dangerous issues.

So many well-known long term opiate users had heart attacks in the past. The cardio-pulmonary stress long term is huge on the body. Immuno-suppression also results, causing increased sicknesses and increased susceptibility to illness.

I can tell you a huge negative for me is that after a long time on opiates, I experienced "opioid induced hyperalgesia" whereby my body started manufacturing increasing pain, with massive tolerance on top. I also encountered, literally overnight, them stopping working and had to increase to huge daily doses just to stave off repeated and frequent withdrawals from hell. No highs either, long gone by then. I'd call it a slow, agonising death by that stage.

Get out now while you still can.

This post is fantastic n needed saying. Thank you WantToBeReborn because this will also help anyone lurking (non registered members seeking answers to questions via Google) n this is the kind of straight-up, non-nonsense post that is needed.

Also MDB, on my PAWS thread that I have made on TDS I've put a few links up to studies. The first one talks about addiction n is avery interesting read. May be interesting to you.

 

[WantToBeReborn]

Thank you, although I worry sometimes as a new poster that my tone is a bit "lecturing" but I wish I had known the dangers when I started out and stayed stopped when far less damage had been done.

What I'd give to go back in time. What can I do now but hope my hard learned lessons can help someone else before their life becomes unbearably painful, mentally, spiritually and physically. These drugs, even prescribed for pain, are a massive double-edged sword.

There's no high on the planet that is worth our health - the most precious gift that we don't treasure until it is too late.

 

[Eveleivibe]

Of course not. This is a harm reduction site. The dangers need pointing out sometimes. Besides MDB asked were opiates worth it n you answered. Lecturing would be more like someone telling you they're taking drugs without asking whether they should stop or not n you then telling them all the dangers... Well that's how I see it anyway I think you just responded with good, useful information/reasons as to why it is best to quit opiates n not use them long term.

 

[DOB]

depends what u want from life... i want to be strong and healthy as possible,have cutting edge nutrition based on lattest science facts... i also plan to have really special wife and have around 4 children.... also i have many ideas from weapons to music

i have that drive,that reason to not become a drug addict... u sound like u have none of this honestly,maybe i am wrong,but i if u had real good reason u wouldnt ask bunch of strangers on net if its worth not being <a miserable> opiate addict

 

[WantToBeReborn]

Of course not. This is a harm reduction site. The dangers need pointing out sometimes. Besides MDB asked were opiates worth it n you answered. Lecturing would be more like someone telling you they're taking drugs without asking whether they should stop or not n you then telling them all the dangers... Well that's how I see it anyway I think you just responded with good, useful information/reasons as to why it is best to quit opiates n not use them long term.

True indeed and you're absolutely correct, the profound suffering of progressing addiction can not and should not be sugar coated.

 

[WantToBeReborn]

depends what u want from life... i want to be strong and healthy as possible,have cutting edge nutrition based on lattest science facts... i also plan to have really special wife and have around 4 children.... also i have many ideas from weapons to music

i have that drive,that reason to not become a drug addict... u sound like u have none of this honestly,maybe i am wrong,but i if u had real good reason u wouldnt ask bunch of strangers on net if its worth not being dirty rotten opiate addict

No one ever sets out to become an addict. Your comments are not only highly insulting, they are needlessly harsh and judgmental. You don't know the OP's background. The OP is here for support and help - neither of which you seem able to provide. Why stick the boot in when a man is already down? We don't shoot our wounded, we help each other back to our feet. We are not strangers, but a loving, decent community. One day, that might be you or your loved one needing help, God forbid and don't tell me no, as you cannot forecast the future. Addiction and dependence comes in many forms and is far more complex than your overly simplistic, ill-understood platitudes imply.

You speak of your plans for your health and life as if by magic they will happen at your command and no traumatic or difficult events will ever occur in life. It's a whole different ball game when we have to learn to accept unspeakably hard times in life, that we cannot change.

Life, my friend, is what happens when we are busy making other plans. Would you treat an addicted family member with this hateful contempt? Plenty of us started our addiction from prescribed medication for horrendous illness and suffering, which I hope to God you never experience.

I feel sorry for you as a human being, that your complete lack of empathy, compassion and moral superiority prevents you from realising the intractable reality that we cannot control every event in life. The truth is, you have no idea what's around the corner.

All humans have a breaking point - never forget that. You don't know what drive you have, until it's been tested to the limit. Coping resources are NEVER endless. I truly hope you never have to find this brutal truth out, the hard way. I really mean that.

Peace.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Very well said wtbr, though I wasnt insulted by DOBs' post, i'm aware that posting about this topic stirs up strong feelings. I actually welcome all shades of opinion, from the soflty soflt indulgent to the down right harsh and insulting. I find it helpfull to get as any different ways of looking at things as possible. Fortuanelty, and it's possibly because i am on opis and benzos i currently dont get offended, upset or emotionally dragged down by such things. DOB the 'dirty rotten' thing was totally uneceaasry and misplaced, you dont know the fisrt thing about me, other than the post you read.

It is true i am not, nor never have been as driven or goal foccused as you seem to be. There is a vague plan in the back of my mind that if and when i defeat my habits, i am going to put my experience to use, and hope to be able to give something back, and help others by seekig employement in the drugs support field.

 

[thedawn]

you can't live like this,on/off,withdrawals,guilt and shame,using harming your body.....
see a doc and consider going on Suboxone for a short while till u have your life together again and can think straight.
right now your disease is in control.almost everything your brain is telling you is a lie and wants you to use and die.
this is dead serious.
you might want to leave this part of your life behind forever and look back but with acceptance.

anyways,see a real life doctor and be honest.
this use of paracetamol will make for an early,painful death.

if you are young,don't think about the future,it will come,think about today.
if you want to be on opiates for life and "give up"if u see it that way,suboxone will not kill you,
it's once or twice a day and no paracetamol.
it's controversial but i think better safe than sorry.too many die.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

ive allready tapered off suboxone twice, at present my kratom use is low dose and short term. I believe that kratom is the lesser of the 2 evils, Im not going to back on to subs. Sorry to dismiss your well meant advice, but that would be a step backwards for me.

 

[DOB]

<please refrain from posting nonsense or derogatory things in SL and all of recovery>

 

[WantToBeReborn]

Very well said wtbr, though I wasnt insulted by DOBs' post, i'm aware that posting about this topic stirs up strong feelings. I actually welcome all shades of opinion, from the soflty soflt indulgent to the down right harsh and insulting. I find it helpfull to get as any different ways of looking at things as possible. Fortuanelty, and it's possibly because i am on opis and benzos i currently dont get offended, upset or emotionally dragged down by such things. DOB the 'dirty rotten' thing was totally uneceaasry and misplaced, you dont know the fisrt thing about me, other than the post you read.

It is true i am not, nor never have been as driven or goal foccused as you seem to be. There is a vague plan in the back of my mind that if and when i defeat my habits, i am going to put my experience to use, and hope to be able to give something back, and help others by seekig employement in the drugs support field.

True, true, buddy. One has to be pragmatic sometimes when staggering lack of insight manifests. The true irony being that here you are, with the will and strength of character and decency to want to give something back to harm reduction - not everyone can do that, however anyone can piss about with their own physiology or running cycles of this or that, same as countless others before and after them, nothing altruistic, technical, meritorious or socially valuable there at all.

On the other hand, the desire to do something for others, with no expectation in return, is a true measure of a character and I have every faith in your ability to succeed. Quiet determination is a virtue possessed by few, coveted by the many. Good for you.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Thanks for the support and encouragement.

Does it appear that i have a staggering lack of insight ? I thought i was reasonably self aware and other doctors have told me that i have good insight, but i think all addictive substances play tricks on your mind, and i have to become aware of the ones I might be falling for.