Opioids Is it possible to get off suboxone using a short acting opioid?

[Jen X]

i wasn't on subs for long, maybe 2 months. I was on methadone before that. The first few days i switched to morphine i got really high but didn't last long.

 

[Bytor_and_the_snowdog]

im in the middle of trying this. i have been on subs since feb march of this past year. before that i was using low dose oxy for maybe 2 years max. i now realize i didnt need subs. 2-4mg of subs is what i was using. oxy most i had taken was maybe 80mg
usually was 40-60mg a day for 2 years on and off.
reading of all the horror stories about getting off of them had me go back onto oxy to get off subs. what i noticed is i need more oxy just to feel normal. so im using about 80-100mg a day - im thinking of going back on subs and just dealing with getting off.
my plan was to use the ox and then taper slowly - but i feel so horrible in the mornings that i have to pop 40mg just to feel normal.
i wanted the subs totally out of my system while i use ox and then was going to taper off or quit cold turkey.
weds will be 2 weeks back on ox
idk what to do

 

[Las Veghost grower]

If the morphine got you high you have effectively raised your tolerance, one step forward two back, that’s the opiate pattern

 

[Bytor_and_the_snowdog]

If the morphine got you high you have effectively raised your tolerance, one step forward two back, that’s the opiate pattern

i see - so basically the subs raised my tolerance.
now if i go back to subs - because honestly i feel worse. will i get by being able to use 2mg of suboxon? - or will that have increased also since my ox dosage is higher now than it was before subs

 

[Las Veghost grower]

i see - so basically the subs raised my tolerance.
now if i go back to subs - because honestly i feel worse. will i get by being able to use 2mg of suboxon? - or will that have increased also since my ox dosage is higher now than it was before subs

Hard to say, ones a full and one a partial agonist, but generally if you stop your sub and get high of a full agonist you raise your tolerance…2-4mg sub a day isn’t a lot really but if you need 80mg oxy to feel right your original sub dose might still work , or you might need 6mg

 

[Bytor_and_the_snowdog]

Hard to say, ones a full and one a partial agonist, but generally if you stop your sub and get high of a full agonist you raise your tolerance…2-4mg sub a day isn’t a lot really but if you need 80mg oxy to feel right your original sub dose might still work , or you might need 6mg

how tough would it be to go cold turkey? i have on hand gabapentin, clonipin, some kratom pill form 600mg other opiates- a shitload of targin 40mg ox 20mg naloxone, is this safe to use? will the naloxone put you into PWs? i doubt it but want to make sure (tramadol and hydrocodone) and suboxone and anti depressants prozac and wellbutrin. i would like to know how to go about it in a scientific way. times and hpw much to take of what.
i have a family that i love and my wife doesnt even know - she will be devatated and dsappointed if i told her im addicted. its not an option. otherwise id go to a clinic. i even have a psychiatrist, but im afraid if i tell him he will drop me. reason i say that is i know he wouldn t take on others who had opiates addiction in the past.
i also own my own biz so even though i can take off whenever i want - i have to be able to work to get things done.
i guess i can start on a weekend (we have plans every weekend which also makes it very difficult - kids sports, family gathterings etc)
its that or go back to subs which is the reason i started this ox again. thought it would be a breeze to go on these for a week or two and quit.
doesnt seem like that will be the case. bad calculation by me.
i can try to do it on my own and worst case, i suppose i can always go back to suboxone

 

[Las Veghost grower]

I think your best bet would be getting down to .25 mg a day then jump using kratom and other comfort meds for a week or two

 

[Jen X]

how tough would it be to go cold turkey? i have on hand gabapentin, clonipin, some kratom pill form 600mg other opiates- a shitload of targin 40mg ox 20mg naloxone, is this safe to use? will the naloxone put you into PWs? i doubt it but want to make sure (tramadol and hydrocodone) and suboxone and anti depressants prozac and wellbutrin. i would like to know how to go about it in a scientific way. times and hpw much to take of what.
i have a family that i love and my wife doesnt even know - she will be devatated and dsappointed if i told her im addicted. its not an option. otherwise id go to a clinic. i even have a psychiatrist, but im afraid if i tell him he will drop me. reason i say that is i know he wouldn t take on others who had opiates addiction in the past.
i also own my own biz so even though i can take off whenever i want - i have to be able to work to get things done.
i guess i can start on a weekend (we have plans every weekend which also makes it very difficult - kids sports, family gathterings etc)
its that or go back to subs which is the reason i started this ox again. thought it would be a breeze to go on these for a week or two and quit.
doesnt seem like that will be the case. bad calculation by me.
i can try to do it on my own and worst case, i suppose i can always go back to suboxone

I would taper, if you have a hard time tapering oxy then maybe subs would be best. I'm done with my taper but it took ALOT of work. Once i was down to 30mg i started to get the sweats and didn't sleep very well a few nights but nothing awful. I'm just turned from opioids now, caused so much damage for me, so i think that helped.

Suboxone made my anxiety really bad so that's why i went with this method. I think once people get to the point that they despise the drug it makes it easier but nothing is painless. If subs work for you that's probably the best option.

 

[Coffeeshroom]

I personally would go the subs route and just taper slowly. If the end goal is to get clean then I wouldn't go with an opiate/opioid that makes you high so to speak as I think that feeling or thought alone makes it harder to taper down and to relapse so to speak just easier. D

4mg bupre I believe will be more then enough with regards to your last oxy use. My H, oxy, hydro etc usage was a lot higher and I got away with only needing 8mg in the beginning and quickly worked my way down to a stable 2mg a day and now another 4 months later I'm on 500mcg a day and comfortable.

 

[Jnowhere]

how tough would it be to go cold turkey? i have on hand gabapentin, clonipin, some kratom pill form 600mg other opiates- a shitload of targin 40mg ox 20mg naloxone, is this safe to use? will the naloxone put you into PWs? i doubt it but want to make sure (tramadol and hydrocodone) and suboxone and anti depressants prozac and wellbutrin. i would like to know how to go about it in a scientific way. times and hpw much to take of what.
i have a family that i love and my wife doesnt even know - she will be devatated and dsappointed if i told her im addicted. its not an option. otherwise id go to a clinic. i even have a psychiatrist, but im afraid if i tell him he will drop me. reason i say that is i know he wouldn t take on others who had opiates addiction in the past.
i also own my own biz so even though i can take off whenever i want - i have to be able to work to get things done.
i guess i can start on a weekend (we have plans every weekend which also makes it very difficult - kids sports, family gathterings etc)
its that or go back to subs which is the reason i started this ox again. thought it would be a breeze to go on these for a week or two and quit.
doesnt seem like that will be the case. bad calculation by me.
i can try to do it on my own and worst case, i suppose i can always go back to suboxone

I had hoped you would quit. I am off morphine.
But at least you didn't tell your shrink. I have read that it can get harder and more painfull and higher tolerance each time you to try to quit. You got have basically what I used and then some, to get off a long term low dose morphine use for pain. Careful with Kratom and gabapentin, they can be addicting and cause withdrawals too. I really hoped you could quit, you got a nice life, minus the issue(that is a code word I like). I am not here to nag or preach, please get it done and stay done. You have a lot more to loose than most. It is cold and flu season, worse case tell your wife you feel sick( that might be true) as an excuse to buy yourself a couple of days of 'don't bother daddy, he is sick'.
As far as the gabapentin and kratom try a low er than hugh dose and then some more every 30 minutes till it helps and carefully, gabapentin tolerance can increase ridiculously fast. And I am almost positive I gave myself, a sort of kratom hangover. Your, get off the opiod arsenal seems good. The gabapentin, clonidine and kratom seemed to really help, also trying lower doses of oxy to help might be needed. Tapering a little, just to take off edge.
There are of course a lot of people on here that will know better than me. Just remember in some people( myself included, wds can be very psychological along with all the other issues. Keep that in the front of your mind. Reason I say this is because I got rather impatient and easily angry coming off morphine. Same problem when I drank and had withdrawals.
You are a family man and if your wife is like most women, she may pick up on a bad mood that lasts a few days. Also hide it by not changing the little things, that women tend to notice when you try again.
Good luck
Jnowhere

 

[Bytor_and_the_snowdog]

I personally would go the subs route and just taper slowly. If the end goal is to get clean then I wouldn't go with an opiate/opioid that makes you high so to speak as I think that feeling or thought alone makes it harder to taper down and to relapse so to speak just easier. D

4mg bupre I believe will be more then enough with regards to your last oxy use. My H, oxy, hydro etc usage was a lot higher and I got away with only needing 8mg in the beginning and quickly worked my way down to a stable 2mg a day and now another 4 months later I'm on 500mcg a day and comfortable.

think thats the route im going to go. how long would you give it to start after my last oxy ingestion

 

[Bytor_and_the_snowdog]

I had hoped you would quit. I am off morphine.
But at least you didn't tell your shrink. I have read that it can get harder and more painfull and higher tolerance each time you to try to quit. You got have basically what I used and then some, to get off a long term low dose morphine use for pain. Careful with Kratom and gabapentin, they can be addicting and cause withdrawals too. I really hoped you could quit, you got a nice life, minus the issue(that is a code word I like). I am not here to nag or preach, please get it done and stay done. You have a lot more to loose than most. It is cold and flu season, worse case tell your wife you feel sick( that might be true) as an excuse to buy yourself a couple of days of 'don't bother daddy, he is sick'.
As far as the gabapentin and kratom try a low er than hugh dose and then some more every 30 minutes till it helps and carefully, gabapentin tolerance can increase ridiculously fast. And I am almost positive I gave myself, a sort of kratom hangover. Your, get off the opiod arsenal seems good. The gabapentin, clonidine and kratom seemed to really help, also trying lower doses of oxy to help might be needed. Tapering a little, just to take off edge.
There are of course a lot of people on here that will know better than me. Just remember in some people( myself included, wds can be very psychological along with all the other issues. Keep that in the front of your mind. Reason I say this is because I got rather impatient and easily angry coming off morphine. Same problem when I drank and had withdrawals.
You are a family man and if your wife is like most women, she may pick up on a bad mood that lasts a few days. Also hide it by not changing the little things, that women tend to notice when you try again.
Good luck
Jnowhere

yea i relapsed. but i thought it would be easier to get off subs this way...nope big mistake. my tolerance went wayyy up, and im guessing its from subs. i think going back on subs like coffeeshroom suggested is the best way. atleast i was stable on them. il try to go as low as possible and then jump off with the advice you gave me.
thanks for being there - thanks for the encouragment. i really need it.

 

[Coffeeshroom]

think thats the route im going to go. how long would you give it to start after my last oxy ingestion

On the safe side 24hrs, if you can go longer then better and gives you a rough idea of dosage needed. But I personally can get away with 16hrs or less when swapping between 2 but that's just me as I know my body and how I respond to certain drugs and what I personally can get away with and can't. So for hr reasons 24hr I would say is safe side.

And good luck and respect on your choice and open honesty with yourself.

 

[Jnowhere]

yea i relapsed. but i thought it would be easier to get off subs this way...nope big mistake. my tolerance went wayyy up, and im guessing its from subs. i think going back on subs like coffeeshroom suggested is the best way. atleast i was stable on them. il try to go as low as possible and then jump off with the advice you gave me.
thanks for being there - thanks for the encouragment. i really need it.

Yea, everytime a relapse, it gets harder according to some. Due what you think your body will do best with. Just remember when you are ready to use kratom clonidine and gabapentin, they
affect different people in different ways. Some swear they are a miracle cure, others ok. At least you didn't tell your shrink.
Good luck

 

[Jnowhere]

I used morphine for a long time, but it was only 60mg a day, and I also have a oxycodone script and benzos, gabapentin, clonidine, kratom, so I am not sure. I FEEL LIKE SHIT, BUT I have too low a dose of my meds and cirrhosis and pancreas problems and just quit smoking. I had a legitimate excuse, pancreatitus, I swore I wouldn't ever be into drugs, but I still take them almost always as prescribed. The MS you suffer from, yes OF course I heard of it but having OCD I don't research certain things because of irrational fears( hey, I am only a little crazy) of...too hard to explain. What does MS, do to a person( too scared to look it up and clinical descriptions don't always tell whole story) would hydromorphone or Dilaudid as I know it as: would that help. They give it to druggies in your country for free who sell them, hmm)(just kidding here you get in big trouble for drugs( not weed, I live in Michigan, actually north of boarder crossing. Can you take a certain amount and stick with it. My father was on a low dose of and he took opoids for back problems, and if you are in pain and maintain same dosage for a long time it will work well.
Did for me, then problem got better and quit morphine, couldn't take anything with acetaminophen. Can you function with therapeutic dose or does it cause you problems.( social drinker vs alky, like me, sort of thing). I can understand wanting to be off drugs, but can you take them consistently without a problem or are you prone to addiction( no offense, if I wasn't allergic ot booze, I would be dead) (can't drink like a normal person) is the same true with opiods for you or can you take a therapeutic dose and stick with it. I hate opiods and only use for pain, so my knowledge is limited, I have no clue about MS. Can you control use of Opiods, if so I used Morphine Sulfate er, along with oxycodone ir, no acetaminophen. ( bad for liver). Dilaudid iv is great( hospital), but lasts less than 3 hours. The pills ( dilaudid) vary person to person. MY MOM got them and hated them, my sister didn't. Hydromorphone is strong but pills vary from person to person and you need a lot more orally. If pain is legit, taking daily might be a nessasary thing. But keep a dose that works and at same time. I try for an empty stomach and wait 30-45 mins before eating after(it is probably the same for oxycodone) and no booze. Oh shit, loud noise no power.

 

[Opana313]

Las veghost ain't lying about merry go round. Lord knows I do it, over and over...

but yeah OP I do hope that this is true because it's my plan as well but depression or PAWS is usually what strikes me back to using if I managed to jump for a bit after short acting..so be careful grab some Kratom if you want to feel something, try your hardest not to go back to either.

Kratom is a much easier beast to keep in check in my opinion.

 

[Jen X]

Las veghost ain't lying about merry go round. Lord knows I do it, over and over...

but yeah OP I do hope that this is true because it's my plan as well but depression or PAWS is usually what strikes me back to using if I managed to jump for a bit after short acting..so be careful grab some Kratom if you want to feel something, try your hardest not to go back to either.

Kratom is a much easier beast to keep in check in my opinion.

Ya it did work getting me off the long acting and i wasn't really sick but i relapsed. I have MS so it's hard keeping clean. I took 1 pill a few days ago for pain and that made me crave like mad.
kratom didn't work for me before, just kinda made me anxious and my tolerance was high

 

[Burnt Offerings]

I remember another user on this site doing that actually. He used hydromorphone to get off buprenorphine maintenance, when he finally decided to quit opioids for good. You can use them (short-acting opioids) in such a way but it’s generally frowned upon in the context of opioid replacement therapy, as it’s easily (mis)construed as someone simply relapsing back into the behavior that got em in trouble to begin with

 

[Opana313]

Ya it did work getting me off the long acting and i wasn't really sick but i relapsed. I have MS so it's hard keeping clean. I took 1 pill a few days ago for pain and that made me crave like mad.
kratom didn't work for me before, just kinda made me anxious and my tolerance was high

Well hey you are doing way damn better than me, and I'm not prescribed anything this all began a decade ago or longer when I realized roxi was lovely for saturday morning brown bottle/liquor hangovers..
and became a main crutch..you actually HAVE a medical condition so I applaud your current progress with this nasty habit dagnabitt!!

But yeah Kratom does the same for me, it's like I NEED any benzo just to settle my anxiety and the fucked up headache feeling and gut rot(at least for me). But hey a lil bit of maeng da in the morning or red vein for pain DOES help a ton and healthier option if you are starting to scare yourself of a pending relapse.

 

[galle]

A while ago I used suboxone to get off methadone and fentanyl.
I started taking the suboxone for pain(ms) and started using it every day, thinking that was safer than hydromorph.
Everytime I get off a long acting opioid I relapse because of the long wd and the anxiety and pain gets to me.
I'm currently taking 3-4mg of subs a day.

I have hydromorph and I should have taken that but I was worried it would start me back to daily use.

I want to stop suboxone and wondering if hydromorph would work and then decrease the hydromorph and be clean for a while.

It's tricky to stay clean because MS flairs up but I want at least 6 months with nothing and use pain meds like a normal person.

Anyone ever use a short acting to get off a long acting one?

What mg of hydromorph would be equal to 3mg of subs?

TL;DR - Please don't. Seek professional help.

Wow this brings me back.

I used to be on methadone for like 15 years, and worked my way up to 240 mg/day. I realized that this is not sustainable so I tried to kick it. At first I thought I'd try the same as you - use a short acting to ween myself off it. So I started smoking heroin and shit really spiralled from there. It takes up so much time to get dope and then smoke it in the amounts I was; 3-5 grams No. 3 a day.

I spent the next 6 months working, hunting and smoking and became really miserable.

I went to rehab, stayed for about a month, relapsed mb 45 minutes after I was released. After two days I went back to rehab for another month and again relapsed, only this time in rehab, I managed to get my dealer to come by. (Bc. I've always held a job, had my own place to live, dress nicely, don't shoot up, I was able to manipulate the staff to give me more liberties than normal)

I then met a lady who was some kind of volunteer and she told me I should seek help from a subutex/methadone clinic. Apparently the doctors aren't allowed to nudge you in that direction but she did and boy am I thankful.

I was able to start immediately after I got out of rehab and this has turned my life upside down. Now, I have money and time to spare and I don't have to be a criminal. I've been on buprenorphine for about a year now, I'm on 32 mg/day straight buprenorphine and I'm so happy and feel like the luckiest guy in the world. Sure, the bupe doesn't take everything, I still have aches and I freeze like a MF, especially at night. But. This life is a thousand times better.

So, my two cents - try to get into a sub/methadone treatment and stay away from benzos bc that shit has ruined so many lives.

Good luck mate, and please don't hesitate to ask, if there's anything you wonder.

-Galle