Is it foolish to call God, “Father”?

[Gnostic Bishop]

We already cycled through that quote. Then I even broke it down as a theoretical crime scene. Budge a little.

Why when there is no need to?

I budge to learn or correct error. If I do not ere then there is no need for correction.

Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

You forget that God had/has a plan for creation since the beginning. It's called the fall because adam & eve broke their relationship with God,

How does following scriptures that say we are to emulate God, ---- as A & E did in, as God said, they became as God's in the knowing of good and evil, --- be a fall.

Do you not know that the Jews who wrote that myth called it our elevation?

even trying to hide from him,

b

You know better than to go about naked. Right?

So did A & E. So why do you think it strange that they would want to cover their newly discovered nakedness?

bringing sin into the world leading to spiritual death.

They were not the first to sin. God may have been with his lies of omission in given A & E the consequences of eating of the tree of knowledge. If you deny that then the serpent was the first sinner was it not? Follow the sequence of events and you will agree.

This happened because they were given free will.

No. Eating of the tree of knowledge created desire and that desire to chose is free will. Note that they were told to reproduce way back in Gen 1 but did not and could not have the desire to do so till after gaining knowledge of good and evil.

Knowing that eve then adam would eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and willingly distancing themselves from God, God already had our redemption to bring us back to him planned. It's what comes with the price of us having a will, knowledge, wisdom, and the ability to choose. Would you rather have children that want to love you, or robots that are programmed to love you?

That is why A & E had to gain knowledge. To not be subject to just their instincts.

The first prophecy of Jesus can be interpreted right after the fall:

"The Lord God said to the serpent... you are cursed, more than any other creature... you will crawl... groveling in the dirt as long as you live. And I will cause enmity between you and the women, between your seed and her seed. He will crush your head, and you will [only] strike his heel." Genesis 3:14-15

So God is promising the serpent (satan) that there will be a male offspring of the women who will defeat him.

Though it's vague, it can even be concluded that it hints at the virgin birth. Since Jewish culture was a patriarchal society and not a matriarchal society, it's very unique that the scripture would first mention a seed (offspring) from the women who would defeat satan and not from the man.

Anyways, humans killed Jesus, show me where it says God killed Jesus.

I did not go further into tour post because wehave enough to discuss for the moment. If we cannot reason on this then there is no point in going further into your myth.



Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

To your last. Who put Jesus' death in that great plan?

He is the murderer of Jesus. Right?

Regards
DL

 

[Shrooms00087]

Why when there is no need to?

I budge to learn or correct error. If I do not ere then there is no need for correction.

Regards
DL

God is not Man. This is elementary, as Christ was the unitive Monad --encapsulated in Man. As for God "knowing" the murder would take place all that was needed to be done was dissent and then be crucified like the rest of the "criminals".

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

God is not Man. This is elementary,".

To fools.

Who but a man has ever shown the will of God?

Regards
DL

 

[Tromps]

How does following scriptures that say we are to emulate God, ---- as A & E did in, as God said, they became as God's in the knowing of good and evil, --- be a fall.

They did not emulate God. They freely chose not to listen to God. Jesus emulated God by his obedience.

You know better than to go about naked. Right? So did A & E. So why do you think it strange that they would want to cover their newly discovered nakedness?

What's there to be ashamed of when the only one seeing you is God?

They were not the first to sin. God may have been with his lies of omission in given A & E the consequences of eating of the tree of knowledge. If you deny that then the serpent was the first sinner was it not? Follow the sequence of events and you will agree.

They were the first human beings to sin.

Do you not know that the Jews who wrote that myth called it our elevation?

Do you not know that the Jews failed to recognize Jesus as the Messiah and handed him over to death? There's numerous prophecies in the scriptures that the children of Israel would not understand the true Messiah and reject him.

And now we're back to this... where you keep claiming God killed Jesus without backing up any scriptural or historical claim. You know how it happened. A disciple of Jesus betrayed him by helping the Jewish council kidnap him, then he was handed over by the Jews to the Romans to be crucified in exchange for a GUILTY murderer (now you want to talk about the innocent being punished and not the guilty there's a perfect example of humans deciding to do that).

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

They did not emulate God. They freely chose not to listen to God. Jesus emulated God by his obedience.


What's there to be ashamed of when the only one seeing you is God?


They were the first human beings to sin.



Do you not know that the Jews failed to recognize Jesus as the Messiah and handed him over to death? There's numerous prophecies in the scriptures that the children of Israel would not understand the true Messiah and reject him.

And now we're back to this... where you keep claiming God killed Jesus without backing up any scriptural or historical claim. You know how it happened. A disciple of Jesus betrayed him by helping the Jewish council kidnap him, then he was handed over by the Jews to the Romans to be crucified in exchange for a GUILTY murderer (now you want to talk about the innocent being punished and not the guilty there's a perfect example of humans deciding to do that).

Childish responses that do not deal with what I wrote. I will give you this link showing you how foolishly you view the story of Judas ( not for discussion here) and unless you wish to actually deal with my points, I guess we can move on. Thanks. for this chat though.

Look up the word sop sometime.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F32-J425ArA

Words make a big difference eh?
If they had used some other word, the whole myth could be interpreted as you think it goes.

Regards
DL

 

[Shrooms00087]

To fools.

Who but a man has ever shown the will of God?

Regards
DL

I'll give you a name and refer you to our earlier post which should perfectly seal this argument for me.

Job.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

I'll give you a name and refer you to our earlier post which should perfectly seal this argument for me.

Job.

You are a hero in your own mind. Winning arguments without winning them. Delusions are fun.
I like to lose arguments as that is when I learn. You have taught nothing.

Regards
DL

 

[Noodle]

Delusions are fun, indeed.

God and believing in "him" or "her" is as much a product of mind as anything else. Without mind we are but what we were before stepping out of the water and onto the land.

God Bless and all that jazz.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Delusions are fun, indeed.

God and believing in "him" or "her" is as much a product of mind as anything else. Without mind we are but what we were before stepping out of the water and onto the land.

God Bless and all that jazz.

That all depends on the human mind has always been a Gnostic Christian point of view. That is why that thinking was banned from the bible.

Check at the 1.5 mark.



Regards
DL

 

[Noodle]

knowing is fine, agreed

but blindly believing?

Maybe that takes the sting off the senselessness of events and allows to pick ourselves up. I am sure that kind of thinking has some evolutionary advantages.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

knowing is fine, agreed

but blindly believing?

Maybe that takes the sting off the senselessness of events and allows to pick ourselves up. I am sure that kind of thinking has some evolutionary advantages.

We have a variety of thinkers thinking in different ways, or at least in different directions now. Seems evolution like variety and variety has proven itself to be a great tool for survival.

Minds need thoughts and if all think the same way, we stop progressing at the thinking level.

Yuk. Then we would all be like Christian and Muslims.

Regards
DL

 

[Tromps]

Childish responses that do not deal with what I wrote.

What were you looking for? A long, complex, complicated response to something that is just that simple? Adam and Eve didn't just hide because they were naked, they stepped out of the presence of God, and freely distanced themselves from God.

Back to the topic, you ask if it is foolish to call God our Father, yet in the basic beliefs of your religion you referred to it says:
"7. The concept of God is represented by two distinct and separate persons, our Heavenly Father and our Heavenly Mother."
http://www.thesongofgod.com/tgc/basic_beliefs.html

Is this a polytheist religion? You believe in God the Father and God the Mother? Are they both one? If they are one in the same essence I can understand, but if you say they are different in essence you believe in (plural) god's not (singular) God.

Your own religion that you believe in states God is our "Heavenly Father," so answer your own question, is it foolish?

 

[Shrooms00087]

knowing is fine, agreed

but blindly believing?

Can you imagine when it was all over and the Priests came up to Job and in a hushed tone said "Shit man, that was fucked up, you know God isn't real right?" and I believe his exact words were "No shit".

Strength coming from nothingness (albeit referencing the concept of God) is faith. Faith is a contract of blindness where in return you get strength (albeit from nothingness). This is why Job was the shit. You can see why the Priests then explained it all to him, if he were to come unraveled and started to blame God he would become wrathful, etc, etc, etc.

It's like the Alan Watts quote about Job. "The Devil here is nothing but a lawyer making sure the proceedings go well".

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

What were you looking for? A long, complex, complicated response to something that is just that simple? Adam and Eve didn't just hide because they were naked, they stepped out of the presence of God, and freely distanced themselves from God.

Back to the topic, you ask if it is foolish to call God our Father, yet in the basic beliefs of your religion you referred to it says:
"7. The concept of God is represented by two distinct and separate persons, our Heavenly Father and our Heavenly Mother."
http://www.thesongofgod.com/tgc/basic_beliefs.html

Is this a polytheist religion? You believe in God the Father and God the Mother? Are they both one? If they are one in the same essence I can understand, but if you say they are different in essence you believe in (plural) god's not (singular) God.

Your own religion that you believe in states God is our "Heavenly Father," so answer your own question, is it foolish?

Yes. No genocidal son murderer should be thought of as a good Father.

Even Jesus always preached that there was more than one God.

Matthew6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thywhole body shall be full of light.
John 14:23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: andmy Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode withhim.

Luke 17:21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of Godis within you.

Romans8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to theimage of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Jesus is God and he says we can be his brethren and do all that he has done and more.

I am his brethren and a God. What is holding you back?



Regards
DL

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

Can you imagine when it was all over and the Priests came up to Job and in a hushed tone said "Shit man, that was fucked up, you know God isn't real right?" and I believe his exact words were "No shit".

Strength coming from nothingness (albeit referencing the concept of God) is faith. Faith is a contract of blindness where in return you get strength (albeit from nothingness). This is why Job was the shit. You can see why the Priests then explained it all to him, if he were to come unraveled and started to blame God he would become wrathful, etc, etc, etc.

It's like the Alan Watts quote about Job. "The Devil here is nothing but a lawyer making sure the proceedings go well".

Job 2;3 also shows God admitting to doing evil by blaiming Satan for moving him to destroy without cause.

In this myth, God and Satan are one.

Regards
DL

 

[Shrooms00087]

God and Satan cannot be "one" by definition, also by narrative (he tried to usurp the throne, etc, etc).

The most important part about Job 2;3 is this snippet:

he still maintains his integrity

Meaning God is speaking after the fact. God being an omnipotent being foresaw Job recognizing life as a harsh trial where the desert will tempt you to hate life itself. The loss of Beauty. The devil in the end got what he wanted but that's what makes him the devil. He wanted to see Job suffer rather than thrive. Crucial difference.

 

[Gnostic Bishop]

God and Satan cannot be "one" by definition, also by narrative (he tried to usurp the throne, etc, etc).

The most important part about Job 2;3 is this snippet:


Meaning God is speaking after the fact. God being an omnipotent being foresaw Job recognizing life as a harsh trial where the desert will tempt you to hate life itself. The loss of Beauty. The devil in the end got what he wanted but that's what makes him the devil. He wanted to see Job suffer rather than thrive. Crucial difference.

Read it the wrong way if you like. It still has God admitting to being moved to do evil.

You are fixated on exonerating God while I just read what is said and judge that. You show how Christian morality has been corrupted.

Read what is written and not what you would like to be written.



Regards
DL

 

[Tromps]

Even Jesus always preached that there was more than one God.

O really?

Mark 12:
28 Then one of the scribes came... and asked Him, “Which is the first commandment of all?”

29 Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. 30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first commandment. 31 And the second, like it, is this: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

32 So the scribe said to Him, “Well said, Teacher. You have spoken the truth, for there is one God, and there is no other but He. 33 And to love Him with all the heart, with all the understanding, with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love one’s neighbor as oneself, is more than all the whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.”

34 Now when Jesus saw that he answered wisely, He said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.”

There's a huge difference between having the Spirit of God within you and being God. God is all powerful, all knowing, etc. Are you all powerful? Do you know everything? Your definition of "God" is skewed.