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Is it dangerous to be a hardhead?

G

GumbyClaymation

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Joined
Sep 24, 2011
Messages
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I'll keep my discussion to trypts and phens since I'm posting in PD. With many of these chemicals, I find that if I take the Erowid listed "common" dose, I will feel absolutely sober. I may be +2 in the regions of "heavy" doses, and need 2-3 times the "heavy" dose to get where I want to go. Aside from having to spend more money, are there any real dangers that I need to be looking out for? The biggest annoyance for me is that whenever I buy a new batch, I always start back low and work my way up, "just in case", resulting in several wasted evenings of not tripping or being in that annoying altered state such that it's not a good idea to drive and I'm not able to carry out complex tasks, but not really enough to be worthwhile. I will say that I have shared with friends, and the stuff I buy seems to always be rated at the expected potency by others.
I'm generally pretty thin and quite physically fit. High metabolism may have something to do with this, but I doubt it explains it all. Anyway, not really looking for a "solution" to the "problem", just want to see if there's any extra precautions I should take. I don't usually use more than once a month or so, but once in a while I'll try a couple of different compounds in a week, particularly when I'm titrating up and having those "half-trips". The only benchmarks I've been using for safety is a self awareness of how I feel, and periodically checking my pulse rate.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
 
What substances have you tried? If you're basing this off research chemicals or LSD, I'd be very cautious about thinking you have natural resistances, even if your friends have tried the same stuff and tripped hard (expectations play a big role in how hard the effects hit). Have you tried mushrooms or cacti? Something that comes from a natural source should give you a good indicator. Mushrooms would be better; the strength of cacti is too variable and I myself wonder if I'm resistant, having taken up to 21 inches and still only experiencing borderline visuals.
 
^How are you going to know the dose of active compounds in your mushrooms? Research chemicals of a certain batch, shared with friends, or even better lab tested, are a way better measure, since you know how much you're getting.
 
Chew on four grams of dried psilocybin mushrooms, and you're going to trip. If you don't, it might well be you're resistant. Research chemicals and synthetic substances in general are of considerably more questionable quality. That's not inherent to their nature, it's just the way our stupid society is set up. It's not legal (or it's quasi-legal) so you don't know exactly what you're getting, even when you have a vial with 50mg of something you're pretty sure is pure 2C-B.
 
Thanks for the replies so far. It's not that I can't trip, I simply have to take higher doses. I'm just concerned if I may be subject to excess side effects due to needing more chemical to reach desired effects. I am of the feeling that (assumed) pure research chemicals and a mg scale are a much better way to gauge sensitivity than something like lsd blotter or plant/fungus material.

Things I've tried:


2ce
2ci
2ct2
2ct7
2ct21
4acodet
4acodmt
5meoamt
5meodmt
5meodalt
5meomipt
dipt
dmt
dpt
ketamine
mxe

mushrooms
san pedro

That's off the top of my head. I may be leaving a thing or two off, but I'm not sure if the list tells much of a story other than I've tried a few chems, not just a couple isolated experiences. Again, many of these have been tasted by friends out of the same batch, mostly all oral and/or insufflated. Smoked 5meodmt and dmt are about the only ones where my dose profile has been about in line with others. With other tryptamines, it's usually only about 2x I need. With phens it's more like 3x-10x.



Thanks
 
And the body load from those substances is in line with the psychedelic effects? You don't get the nausea you'd expect from 2 feet of cactus but the trip you'd get from 1 foot of it?

My best guess would be your body just metabolises the stuff better than most people. I'd be careful with substances that have a narrow overdose threshold, but you should be safe to take the ones you've listed there that aren't physically toxic, like mushrooms and mescaline, to higher levels. Can't say with things like ketamine - personally, I wouldn't risk it.
 
well a good thing you could have done was try and find out if it was indeed pure. I had some 2ce that my friend bought off a site that we later found out was 40 percent impure. I had 20mgs and figured that I was resistant to it because I barely tripped, a friend of mine had 15 mg and tripped really hard and he's a lot bigger than me. If i'd had an offer for 2ce after that I would have went for like 25 mg and if it was really pure stuff I'm positive it would have kicked my ass especially if it was anywhere close to the purity of the sample this guy got http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=48983

I now have a really pure capsule of 16 mg of 2ce that I plan to take soon.
 
What is you usual ROA? Maybe you should try and change it and see if it has any difference. It should have. For me, 4-HO-MiPT is almost inactive orally but very active when insufflated.
 
I'm NOT trying to fix the fact that I need to take a lot. I just want to know how to determine what's safe. How did Shulgin do this? He had nobody to compare to. What effects did he look for to decide when to disco.tinue trials with something?

On another note, is there a reasonable way to test purity of chems? By my understanding, even sending to ED will only ID active.compounds, not give %. I wouldn't want to spend more than that. And yet again, many of these have been sample by friends using the same batch. It's me, not the chems.
 
Well if you know your peak target heart rate for your age and size, I'd say be warned if you get close to that from the body effects of any chemical. Shulgin also was checking for appetite disturbance, muscle tremors, amnesia, and probably dozens of other possible side effects while he was evaluating these compounds. Remember that some compounds seemed to have a naturally higher spread of accepted doses, and you are simply one contributor to the average recommendations. Plenty of lightweights to balance out the hardheads, so that's why we all start low.

If you study a little chemistry, there are simple tests (melting point, solubility, etc) that let you get an idea of a compound's purity. Reagent tests will let you verify a compound's identity to a reasonable degree. Beyond that you'll need more study and equipment.
 
I know i'm bringing up an old thread, but i'm really searching for the same answer as the op to this same problem. I'm lightweight, skinny, and have an extremely fast metabolism which I've been blaming for the trips that I've had which have been very disappointing compared to the same dosages all my friends have been doing. Either my body just breaks shit down too fast, or its not being processed very efficiently. Its definitely not purity, as the same batches have been tested by multiple people with consistent results excepts for me ofcourse..

Maybe it has something to do with blocked chakra points? If the energy isn't flowing then maybe that's why its not being processed correctly? I seriously cant figure this out, because even with zero tolerance 200 mg mdma is threshold for me, and the first time I ever did meph I needed 700 mg just to feel anything. 50 mg 4acodmt and 50 mg 4homipt are minimum doses i'll take to feel anything, and everytime I do ayahuasca i'm taking 4 times the normal dose and barely get a +1 (400 mg caapi and 200 mg dmt on my last trip and I barely felt shit..) Anyways, would acupuncture help clear up some things? Anyone else find a solution to this problem? I'm sick of this, I feel like i'm being secluded from enjoying things like everyone else and i'm sick of being the only one who hasn't seen the beauty of what is really out there, I feel like its being blocked or hidden from me..
 
Odd, I have similar experiences but not with all of the things you mentioned. Ketamine + 2ci have a very strong effect on me, but mushrooms have a much weaker effect on me. It's an interesting comparison with a friend of mine, who is male (I am female) - he needs far less than me to be blasted off into space, despite being taller and heavier and having a more efficient metabolism. It's similar with LSD (tried once) - I was chatting to the public and he was off in the bushes, despite having exactly the same amount. What could this be?
 
i know a few people in this boat, but from what i can tell it just takes a bit more psychedelic to get them into that headspace; i feel as if their natural mental state is so far away from the psychedelicized mind it takes a little more gas to get there.

however i know a girl who grew up in south east asia in a very traditional buddhist family and it seemed as if she had the opposite problem. it was if her mind state was closer to the psychedelicized mind state so when she first started tripping it took a little extra for her to notice a difference, but now that she is more familiar with the substances' effects, she can take a normal dose. just my hypothesis.

fwiw, i am pretty sensitive to tryptamine psychedelics--LSD, mushrooms, DMT, etc. it definitely takes a bit more than most to get me going on phens like MDMA, MDA, 2C-B, 2C-I, 25i. i am sure everyones personal body chemistry and metabolism makes it different from person to person.
 
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You can grow to be "hard headed" through the development of psychological tolerance, but if you are hard headed the first time you try a new drug then the reason is probably physiological. If you're physiologically hard headed across many different classes of drugs, you don't take other drugs regularly, and you aren't physically large, I suppose it's probably because, as you expected, you have higher levels of multiple metabolic enzymes than most people. The first thing to try is alternative routes of administration that get around first-pass metabolism, intranasal and rectal being the most reliable (with sublingual you can accidentally swallow, plus spit contains enzymes) and least invasive (you're not putting the drug into any holes that weren't there in the first place). I recommend rectal as it's not as likely to cause pain as intranasal and your butt doesn't have any olfactory receptors in it to risk damaging (we should all be thankful for that).

Being a hard head does make drug use more risky, theoretically, as enzymatic levels can wax and wane and if you take your average dose during an enzymatic downslope it could get you into trouble. It's also dangerous because some people assume they're hard headed across every class of drugs because they erroneously generalize from past experiences with just one or a few classes of drugs. Somebody who is hard headed with alcohol and cannabis for instance should not assume they'll need substantially more crack, heroin, or PCP their first time around because different physiological factors account for different types of physiological resistance. The issue that's causing you to not feel as euphoric as others seem to feel may not play a role in how much a drug is depressing your respiration, for example.

I certainly don't think it's because you have blocked chackras or something like that. If the problem is some sort of psychological block to your subjective experience of a drug you should nevertheless experience other side effects of the drugs such as loss of motor coordination, pupil dilation, etc. Try out "road side" police tests, take your blood pressure, and use other tests or instruments that don't rely on your subjective appraisal of how affected you are to gauge your body's responses before making any conclusions about how hard headed you are.
 
rez_runner said:
I know i'm bringing up an old thread, but i'm really searching for the same answer as the op to this same problem. I'm lightweight, skinny, and have an extremely fast metabolism which I've been blaming for the trips that I've had which have been very disappointing compared to the same dosages all my friends have been doing. Either my body just breaks shit down too fast, or its not being processed very efficiently. Its definitely not purity, as the same batches have been tested by multiple people with consistent results excepts for me ofcourse..

Maybe it has something to do with blocked chakra points? If the energy isn't flowing then maybe that's why its not being processed correctly? I seriously cant figure this out, because even with zero tolerance 200 mg mdma is threshold for me, and the first time I ever did meph I needed 700 mg just to feel anything. 50 mg 4acodmt and 50 mg 4homipt are minimum doses i'll take to feel anything, and everytime I do ayahuasca i'm taking 4 times the normal dose and barely get a +1 (400 mg caapi and 200 mg dmt on my last trip and I barely felt shit..) Anyways, would acupuncture help clear up some things? Anyone else find a solution to this problem? I'm sick of this, I feel like i'm being secluded from enjoying things like everyone else and i'm sick of being the only one who hasn't seen the beauty of what is really out there, I feel like its being blocked or hidden from me..
Click to expand...

Thanks for reviving the thread. Your numbers are about where mine are. You're not alone. I had also considered the possibility that it might be some kind of psychological block, but I'm not inclined to believe it. I've tried plugging and snorting without improved results. Many of the chems I'm interested in don't lend well to smoking. I do not intend to inject. Let me know if you find out anything. Stay safe.
 
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