Is DMT really the most powerful psychedelic?

[theotherside]

Another close runner for the most powerful would be a high dose of 2c-e. Most people would disagree, but a high dose of 2c-e rivals LSD/DMT in terms of extreme fractal shards forming what the user takes as a new reality.

 

[wykydtron]

Maybe at high enough doses they all take you to places similarly far removed from normal experience.

 

[ungelesene_bettlek]

I don't think it makes much sense to rank psychedelics in terms of their "power." DMT is what it is, and LSD is what it is, and they have overlapping uses and we group them into similar categories but in the end they are different chemicals with completely different cosmic signatures.

that's what psychedelic connoisseurs usually say, but I think it is exaggerated. to be honest, most 5HT2A psychedelics are pretty much alike, with only slight variations in the subjective effects - apart from their power. nobody can seriously say that DMT or LSD are not much more powerful entheogens than 2C-C or 2C-D.

 

[Roger&Me]

^Well personally I don't really consider the 4-halo 2C's to be psychedelics in the true sense of the word at all, more like trippy euphoriants. The 4-alkyl 2C's can be extremely psychedelic though, and I've had extremely powerful experience from 2C-D and 2C-E especially. On 2C-D I've seen outright hallucinations that weren't actually there, and the ego loss I've experienced from 2C-E has been possibly more profound than the ego loss I experience from DMT (and both very different). Honestly, I don't think there's much sense in ranking these substances, as I find them to all be unique and special in their own way.

Haha opinions n' all that.

 

[psood0nym]

I consider dmt the most PSYCHEDELIC psychedelic. It also feels the most natural, for how high you get (kinda hard to explain this). But to get as high on acid or shrooms, there is way too much body load and more confusion.

This is pretty much what I'm thinking when I hear someone use the word "powerful" to distinguish between different psychedelic's effects. It's the power of the drug's "mind-manifesting" signal as well as the ratio of that signal over its noise. For instance, I find LSD gets confusing and causes muscle tension well before I feel I MIGHT start to get visions comparable to those I've experienced on ayahuasca. However, LSD may be more "therapeutically powerful" than ayahuasca because the user tends to have more say in where the trip is going. The high signal to noise ratio idea alone is about the same as what we mean when we say a trip is "clean," though.

In addition, a powerful psychedelic is also more likely than others to keep breaking through barriers. Something like Datura may cause a deliriant "break through" experience, but the signal is jumbled. Similarly, something like DOC or 2C-C may have very little negative body load, but very few expect to experience ego death or visions from it.

Despite the fact that it's decimated my ego and made me think I might die, I still rank 5-MeO-DMT below salvia and DMT in terms of psychedelic power. I think of experiential novelty as an important aspect of psychedelia, and the 5-MeO-DMT dissolve into deathless light and bliss experience seems to be far more homogeneous than the experiences I've had from the other two.

 

[Delsyd]

Although growing up "puddling" (a little puddle of liquid in the palm of your hand mostly done at Dead shows) by people was pretty common.

its not as uncommon as you may think, even today

As for DMT being the most powerful.
In my experience it has produced the powerful psychedelic experiences ive had. Maybe because i wasnt afraid to push the envelope a bit knowing id be back to normal before the hour was over.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

100mg IV MDA is the most powerful psychedelic I have gotten to try. I haven't tried DMT, but I have tried IM 2c-E, LSD, Mushrooms, salvia, 2c-I, IM/IV K, IV MDA, MDMA.

IV MDA was 10x more intense than any other trip I have ever had. Salvia is a very plain, predictable trip compared to IV MDA.

 

[Mjäll]

As has been stated; by potency of weight, it is not the most powerful psychedelic. Subjectively, this is related to both subjective opinion and common uses of drugs, as well as saturation points. My experience and reasoning tell me that states much resembling those of a peak DMT experience can be reached with many psychedelics.

One, in my opinion, important point when "ranking" psychedelics is the degree of side-effects. Perhaps it is so that the psychedelic intensity of DMT can be pushed very far without the discomfort of major side-effects, compared to other psychedelics? In that sense I would think LSD is also a strong contender - though I've yet to try a very high dose of LSD, or DMT at all.

 

[JackARoe]

its not as uncommon as you may think, even today

LOL, I can remember the phrase "dude, puddle me..." :D

So many different definitions of powerful. As far as activity in small doses the substances that work in microgram dosages are the most powerful. What's below a microgram? I'm not familiar with a smaller unit of measurement or if anything is active that small.

 

[Delsyd]

When talking about micrograms, milligrams etc i think of potency not neccesarilly how powerful a psychedelic is.

LSD is certainly more potent by dose than DMT (so is Br-DFLY, DOx's, 5 meo dmt)

How powerful a psychedelic is depends on dosage to some degree but is also quite subjective.
There is no most powerful psychedelic, it all depends on which ones you've taken and how far you've taken them.

Everyone will have a different answer for this question.

But DMT is known to be quite a powerful psychedelic.

PS... dude, puddle me...

 

[LunarSylph]

Regarding LSD and potency...

I recall doing some research and finding out that when you take a light dose of acid (in the range of micrograms), the amount that actually breaches the blood-brain-barrier will end up being only in the range of nanograms, a fraction of the actual administered dose.

In other words, you could fill a single neuron in your brain with the entire (effective) dose of LSD you took, and still have room to spare O_O

-

Lemme check google for backup on this (I may turn out to be wrong, I recall working it out when I first took an interest in acid years and years ago)...

Hmm, best I could find was another person who's presiding under the same impression:

I can't remember the exact figure from my research back in the seventies, but I believe several studies showed that only an infinitesimal fraction of the ingested LSD ever makes it as far as the brain. In fact, the highest concentration of it is found in the liver, the LOWEST concentration is found in the brain.

If I recall correctly, it is one ten thousandth, or maybe even only one hundred-thousandth of the dose that crosses the blood brain barrier. At any rate, I do remember that it is only a couple million molecules out of the standard 100 microgram dose used for clinical research at the time.

 

[RhythmSpring]

^^^^
That's CRAZY! How mysterious it is...

 

[delta_9]

I recall reading something similar as well(that only about ~1% or less of the dose of lsd reaches the brain), but I don't recall where or the exact numbers.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Has anyone else tried IV MDA? I think it's one of the most intense trips I'd have personally speaking.

 

[psood0nym]

Regarding LSD and potency...

I recall doing some research and finding out that when you take a light dose of acid (in the range of micrograms), the amount that actually breaches the blood-brain-barrier will end up being only in the range of nanograms, a fraction of the actual administered dose.

In other words, you could fill a single neuron in your brain with the entire (effective) dose of LSD you took, and still have room to spare O_O

I remember reading this somewhere, too. I assumed it was some BS attached the the grand LSD mythos or that there is some research that's causing a misinterpretation and ignored it. But you got me interested again.

I searched just now and found this statement taken from an interview with Albert Hofmann from here: http://serendip.brynmawr.edu/bb/neuro/neuro04/web1/mfichman.html

A C14 marking of ingested LSD shows that about 10% of LSD molecules ingested by a subject pass through the blood brain barrier and bind to serotonin receptors in the hypothalamus.

If it sounds crazy, it often is.

 

[Roger&Me]

Puddle meh! :D

 

[nanobrain]

hm, i learned to mind my liqqy when smoking the ol' 50/50 meat 'n 'taters Changa...

 

[8-12]

"Powerful" is extremely subjective, theoretically a person can achieve just as powerful a trip on any psychedelic but most only reach such with some, which becomes the person's "most powerful" psychedelic of choice. Personally I've reached the most profound states on drugs like ketamine and mescaline, but others may find better experiences in LSD or DMT. There is no most powerful psychedelic, there are only powerful experiences. That's what I love about psychedelics; everyone has a different favorite.

 

[malakaix]

Try it and see

Personally.. DMT was the drug that changed my life. It took me to a place of consciousness that more traditional psychedelics such as LSD,Mushrooms and Mescaline only scratched. But it's completely subjective of the individual.

 

[scotty2captin]

I feel that DMT has the most recreational intesnse profound experience. Combined with N20 or K i think would be the most powerful, i havn't tried the latter. It would be insane to IV DMT + a small dose of K.... and never get that needle out.

TO CH:

100 mg IV MDA sounds like the most berserk dose ever. Did u shoot that yourself? I'm not surprised that it was the most profound experience you've had. In my experience IV psyches hit u so hard and the dose is so low that a microgram scale would be necessary.

has anyone else tried IV dmt? I think the peak is crazier than smoking, even with a machine i think u get a bigger hit at once... i just lost my dmt three days ago all this dmt talk makes me wish i didn't do fucked up things while on other drugs......