Is buying drugs immoral?

[GenericMind]

For the most part I've known the ultimate sources of my drugs. I'm sure that's usually not possible for drugs like Heroin and Cocaine, but for others it's not unreasonable.

 

[Tytan]

Where does our money go? Who are we funding?

Is buying drugs immoral because of the possibility of who we are ultimately funding?

No "Blah blah blah we should legalize so this won't happen man!" crap. That's not the world we live in.

I'm heavily inclined to think that buying certain drugs is completely immoral because the money may be funding evil sources, such as socialist groups and islamic terrorists.

I'd just like to know if anyone knows exactly who is making money off the illegal drug trade, and does that impact your drug use? If the money is going somewhere it shouldn't, I may consider quitting. I've gone too long simply blanking that fact out. I don't mind paying for drug gangs to kill each other, but I do find if this is going to a questionable Mosque in Pakistan or to socialist Pro-Chavez groups in Venezuela.

If I knew without a doubt who I was funding, and I found the activities in which they engage was considered immoral, then yes, buying those drugs… from those people… would be immoral. Much like how it was seen immoral to buy or sell tea because of the British taxation leading to the Boston Tea Party, or buying Chinese products known to be manufactured by “slaves”, or child labor. From Columbian coke, and Mexican Meth, to Afghan poppies… it still comes from other countries as well. It isn’t always clear where it comes from and who you are funding in an underground illicit market.

As a consumer, I can’t worry too much about who I’m funding by purchasing the goods that I want, or what they are using that money for. Can we make sure that the money I spend in a department store isn't used in a way we consdier to be immoral... somewhere along the way?

Still... Because it's a black market, legalization is the point. Why be the sheep and just accept that “this is the world we live in”. With that attitude, one shouldn’t be concerned about the morality of funding the black market. “This is the world we live in… accept it”. Prohibition is immoral in itself, which denies individual sovereignty, condemns victimless crime, and fuels the black market that exists because of prohibition. If China or a company there uses child slave labor, I can avoid products that come from there… from trade marks and “made in China” labels. I then seek a different provider of the products I want, even if I can't guarantee the new provider didn't fund China purchasing supplies making their product. A bag of dope doesn’t come with Pakistan or Venezuela trade marks and labels giving me the luxury of even attempting to make any distinction, in every purchase.

 

[phr]

For the most part I've known the ultimate sources of my drugs. I'm sure that's usually not possible for drugs like Heroin and Cocaine, but for others it's not unreasonable.

Good point. I think most people aren't considering pharmaceuticals.

 

[Avaddon]

Where does our money go? Who are we funding?

Is buying drugs immoral because of the possibility of who we are ultimately funding?

No "Blah blah blah we should legalize so this won't happen man!" crap. That's not the world we live in.

I'm heavily inclined to think that buying certain drugs is completely immoral because the money may be funding evil sources, such as socialist groups and islamic terrorists.

I'd just like to know if anyone knows exactly who is making money off the illegal drug trade, and does that impact your drug use? If the money is going somewhere it shouldn't, I may consider quitting. I've gone too long simply blanking that fact out. I don't mind paying for drug gangs to kill each other, but I do find if this is going to a questionable Mosque in Pakistan or to socialist Pro-Chavez groups in Venezuela.

You're a moron. First of all, socialism, if done properly, is a good thing. I don't expect you to have known that, or that socialism, communism, and Marxism are three different things.
Second, Chavez isn't socialist. He's somewhat of a dictator, although not as bad as Bush.
Third, fuck morality. Every cent of tax money you pay goes to a government that fills its peoples minds with propaganda, invades countries and slaughters civilians needlessly (not implying that there's ever a real need), and perpetrates blatant acts of racism on a regular basis. If you're really worried about morality, don't just stick with drugs. Actually do what it takes.

 

[TheodoreRoosevelt]

^
Reported for flaming. I'm not going to bother talking with someone like you because you are going to ruin this thread and you're so off base. Thanks for answering my question!

You are funding violent criminal organizations because they provide an illegal product.

Could you be more specific then? No, I didn't know this, please be more specific. If you mean street-level dealers popping eachother for territory and what not, I really don't care. If you are talking about racketeering organizations and crime families (New York Times front page Friday anyone?) like the Gambino family, no I don't really care. But if I'm sending money to al-Qaida, yes, I do care.

Do you think buying alcohol and cigarettes is immoral?

No.

Who are you to decide which regimes are dangerous and wrong. One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.

Don't play stupid. How about "The groups that have no problem killing women and children to send their message across and fail to abide by international rules of war?" And don't give me that "America doesn't" because we do, don't forget that A) We aren't a signatory of most treaties and B)Unmarked groups such as terrorist groups are not afforded protections because they do not label themselves or follow a formal structure, ie adhering to a government.

But I was mainly referring to groups with anti-capitalist agendas really, but whatever.

Look, I'm not here to discuss American Foreign Policy, get the fuck over yourself. I have no problem whatsoever in asking a moderator to edit your comments out of this thread. PM me if you want to talk politics.

What I mean, is fucking terrorist groups and anti-capitalist paramilitary groups and the like. Don't be a fucking dumbass and pretend you don't know what I'm talking about. You know exactly what I mean, even if you disagree.

Just to clarify, i have nothing against the american people, just the government

Yea, and I have nothing against people against our government, just the dipshit stuff they say 8). Please, spare me the bullshit. I take just as much offense to that comment than if you had directly told me to fuck off, which you just did really.

Marijuana is America's #1 cash crop.

Uhhh, if you count illegal industries, sure... Marijuana isn't really considered America' #1 Cash Crop though. I know you read it off wikipedia, but wikipedia sometimes uses faulty sources (check for yourself, they have it listed).

How much would a terrorist organization get from 1 $10 bag sold on the streets in the US?

So what, sending $10 to al-qaida is not okay, but sending 2 pennies is? Fuck that, I'm not going to contribute any iota of bullshit to those guys. I wouldn't even buy drugs if I knew they were going a political party I opposed, it's wrong. And alas, this is the kind of discussion I want here...

 

[TheodoreRoosevelt]

To put it short:

Please do not talk about drug legalization, it's already obvious that this moral dilemma would be cleared up if drugs were legal and supplied by legitimate and state-certified businesses. However, that isn't the case, and if drugs such as heroin was legal for recreational use than this question wouldn't exist. I already agree drugs should be legalized, keep that for another thread I really don't want to hear whining about drugs should be legalized, you'd only be preaching to the choir.

Secondly don't start talking about American jingoism and all that jazz. I really don't care if you don't agree with American foreign policy, you can PM me about such discussions. Don't play stupid and say "well Americans are the real terrorists" and "oh terrorists are justified". For one, it is extremely insulting to me.

We all know exactly what I'm talking about, what groups I am referring to. Don't pretend like you have no clue what I mean when I say terrorist and paramilitary and rebel groups.

My ultimate question for you guys is:
1. Objectively, Is our money going to terrorist and paramilitary groups? You may not agree with the morality and cause of such groups, but you do know who I'm talking about. I honestly do not know whom exactly is funding drug production and where the money is ultimately going to. Details are appreciated.

2. Do you, subjectively, think that giving money to such groups, such as al-Qaida and terrorist cells or communist cells, for your drug use, immoral? Another way to think of it is like if doing drugs meant giving money to the opposite political party you supported, would you still do it? Say you hate George Bush (which many of you do), would you still do drugs if you knew a penny of your dimebag was going to him?

 

[chicpoena]

Uhhh, if you count illegal industries, sure... Marijuana isn't really considered America' #1 Cash Crop though. I know you read it off wikipedia, but wikipedia sometimes uses faulty sources (check for yourself, they have it listed).

No, I read it in Eric Schlosser's Reefer Madness. He got his statistics from the DEA and the US Department of Agriculture. Nice try though 8)

 

[eckofire]

wow people are getting so worked up over this topic. i think the bottom line is people will always use drugs no matter who they come from. so if its not you buying it, it will be someone else.

and im sick of hick ass people who think george bush is god and can do no wrong

 

[Roger&Me]

Okay, next time you or a friend is about to die, don't bother calling 911 then. Don't want to give money to pharm companies, you know...

Haha, I was trying to illustrate a point, my friend. If my friend was about to die, OF COURSE I'd call 911, you are taking my statement to the point of its logical extreme despite the fact that wasn't my intention. In fact, if I had to call fucken Pablo Noriega to save my friend's life I probably would.

Do I feel bad funding "bottom-feeding" drug dealers? Kinda, but at least there's no question what you're getting yourself into. Pharmaceutical companies feed off of the ignorance of the general public and essentially con them into spending their life addicted to their various "medicinal" concoctions. In many ways, the difference between a pharmaceutical company and a drug regime is largely semantical. It's the false appearance of legitimacy that's used to coerce the ignorant masses that really urks me about the Pharm industry.

edit: by all means, pick my argument to pieces and re-convince me. I'll be the first to admit that I've not put a terribly comprehensive amount of analytical thought into this. In reality, I was more playing devils advocate in order to elicit some thought out of people.

 

[snakjaw]

Buying drugs is my good act. My political contribution. My donation to driving history, reality, change. To making people of good intentions unable to ignore their own hypocrisy.

The rest is trivia.

 

[thujone]

hmm i recall this topic has been tackled b4. regardless. it's not immoral in my books. i'm a consumer, and i'm just buying a product. once that money leaves my hand the transaction is complete and what happens to those funds are no more my business than it is the dealer's what i do with my newly gotten drugs.

and then, just like i am entirely liable for the consequences of my drug possession/use, the dealer has taken over liability of my funds.

and then, just like the ebay seller that i buy a toaster oven from can use those funds to buy a handgun to blow someone's brains out, the drug dealer could be using my buck to donate to the red cross.

since i have NO idea what the fate of my money is once it leaves my hand, i don't consider any purchase to be more or less moral than the last.

 

[Avaddon]

To put it short:

Please do not talk about drug legalization, it's already obvious that this moral dilemma would be cleared up if drugs were legal and supplied by legitimate and state-certified businesses. However, that isn't the case, and if drugs such as heroin was legal for recreational use than this question wouldn't exist. I already agree drugs should be legalized, keep that for another thread I really don't want to hear whining about drugs should be legalized, you'd only be preaching to the choir.

Secondly don't start talking about American jingoism and all that jazz. I really don't care if you don't agree with American foreign policy, you can PM me about such discussions. Don't play stupid and say "well Americans are the real terrorists" and "oh terrorists are justified". For one, it is extremely insulting to me.

We all know exactly what I'm talking about, what groups I am referring to. Don't pretend like you have no clue what I mean when I say terrorist and paramilitary and rebel groups.

My ultimate question for you guys is:
1. Objectively, Is our money going to terrorist and paramilitary groups? You may not agree with the morality and cause of such groups, but you do know who I'm talking about. I honestly do not know whom exactly is funding drug production and where the money is ultimately going to. Details are appreciated.

2. Do you, subjectively, think that giving money to such groups, such as al-Qaida and terrorist cells or communist cells, for your drug use, immoral? Another way to think of it is like if doing drugs meant giving money to the opposite political party you supported, would you still do it? Say you hate George Bush (which many of you do), would you still do drugs if you knew a penny of your dimebag was going to him?

^ Reported for being a moron
This is a public message board. This means I can respond as I see fit, obviously to a limit.
1) I don't know for certain. I'd say at this point it's impossible to know for sure, so it's a moot point.
2) Good Lord, if you're going to rant, do it right. Communism does not use money! There are currently NO real communist nations. I'm sick of your stupid, inaccurate, far right propaganda. And who cares if it's moral. If we want to stop terrorism, maybe we should stop killing their civilians and imprisoning/torturing the honest people who are trying to escape to *pseudo*freedom.
One of my best friends was born in Chicago, his parents are Middle Easter, and he obviously is dark skinned. His dad is a respected doctor, and yet every time they go to the airport, they get selected for "random" searches.
You want terrorism? This is terrorism.

EDIT: Since I'm sure your knowledge of history is limited to your lifespan, I'll tell you what that is. It's called Dresden. Look it up.

 

[Avaddon]

He's flaming as much as I am. I'm personally insulted by his equation of communism with groups such as Al-Queda. Wouldn't you guys be up in arms if he compared Al-Quaeda with drug users?
Sorry to have broken the BLUA. Didn't think "moron" would be such a big deal, especially considering phrases like "But I was mainly referring to groups with anti-capitalist agendas really, but whatever" and "Don't be a fucking dumbass and pretend you don't know what I'm talking about. You know exactly what I mean, even if you disagree." Even so, I apologize.

Also, OP, look at that picture and google "Dresden", then try telling me we don't murder civilians.

 

[Avaddon]

That's not really a flame, though. It's a poilitical comment. You're certainly welcome to disagree with his argument. If you're going to be insulted by a comment like that, you probably need to try to develop a thicker skin.

"Fucking dumbass" is definitely worse than moron, and I'd ask TR to refrain from that sort of talk, please. But you started it, you know.

Yeah, I know. Sorry, again. Just pointing that out. I'll keep my nose clean, officer.

 

[VerbalTruist]

Keep the personal shit out of the thread and put it in to a PM or report.

Like children you all are!

 

[skoat]

Coke = Yes, I feel bad. I know it is going nowhere I want to really be hanging out.

Heroin = Funny how the parts of the world that produce this are often not best friends, except Mexico and maybe China.

 

[TheodoreRoosevelt]

wow people are getting so worked up over this topic. i think the bottom line is people will always use drugs no matter who they come from. so if its not you buying it, it will be someone else.

and im sick of hick ass people who think george bush is god and can do no wrong

Right, people will probably buy drugs no matter what. However, I will stop buying drugs if I know they are funding the wrong groups.

I explicitly said no political talk in this thread, and PM it to me. Please stop derailing my thread.

I find your comment extremely insulting. You don't have to agree with me, but you can at least not be disrespectful in how you do it. I don't call all liberals "hick ass people" because I disagree with them. You are no better than a racist or homophobe, because of how intolerant you are of someone who has a different point of view.

Do I feel bad funding "bottom-feeding" drug dealers? Kinda, but at least there's no question what you're getting yourself into.

Eh, yea, I can see that. Personally I don't mind. The way I look at it, is that these drug dealers know what they are getting into, and aren't spending money on anything questionable besides the perpetuation of the life of crime they live.

Pharmaceutical companies feed off of the ignorance of the general public and essentially con them into spending their life addicted to their various "medicinal" concoctions. In many ways, the difference between a pharmaceutical company and a drug regime is largely semantical. It's the false appearance of legitimacy that's used to coerce the ignorant masses that really urks me about the Pharm industry.

I really have no clue what you are talking about. The pharmaceutical industry has done a lot of good for the world as a whole. They save lives, and if you don't want part of it, don't buy into it. What irks me about the industry is how much government regulation is in - for example, economic studies have proven that when the FDA pushed drug review time for 6 months to 12 years average, it caused thousands upon thousands of deaths due to people not getting medications they need in time and the barring of certain drugs on the market, even though a more liberal approval policy would cause a few deaths due to dangerous drugs like Vioxx maybe.

Still, more people die by not getting drugs and by companies having no incentive for innovation than by people taking drugs with negative side effects.

Can you be more specific about what exactly is immoral about Big Pharma?

nd then, just like the ebay seller that i buy a toaster oven from can use those funds to buy a handgun to blow someone's brains out, the drug dealer could be using my buck to donate to the red cross.

Right, but if you knew that this ebay seller was going to buy a handgun to blow someone's brains out, it would be immoral to buy his toaster because it would be a contribution to his crime. While it may not be directly, it means that he is closer to buying his gun.

See, all funds are called 'fungible'. Say I bought Hillary Clinton dinner, and in 2008 she became president. I am just as liable as contributing to her campaign as Rupert Murdoch, since that means she was able to save $10 for her campaign rather than spend it on dinner.

So if my drug money was just going to drug traffickers, whatever, that's fine. If these drug traffickers were going to give their money to al-qaida after reading how cool they are, that sucks, but it's also fine. Now, if these drug traffickers were established or directly connected to al-qaida, that's not fine!

since i have NO idea what the fate of my money is once it leaves my hand, i don't consider any purchase to be more or less moral than the last.

Ignorance is not an excuse! Now if there's no possible way to know who the drug lords are funding, and not any reasonable suspicion to assume they are funding something questionable, I wouldn't have a problem.

But like, if there is good reason to believe that drug money is somehow going to terrorist cells, or paramilitary groups, or communist cells, then I would consider it extremely immoral to buy drugs and would cease immediately.

his is a public message board. This means I can respond as I see fit, obviously to a limit.

You are going to be reported for derailing my thread. PM me with your political nonsense, I'd be more than happy to have a private discussion with you. No, you cannot respond as "you see fit". There are guidelines. Quit derailing my thread, quit dodging the question. So what Dresden happened because we had an incompetent liberal president who refused to go into war until it was too late when atrocities were bound to happen due to the large scale the war had grown, that doesn't change the question of IS OUR DRUG MONEY GOING TO QUESTIONABLE ORGANIZATIONS AND DO YOU GIVE A SHIT IF IT IS?. So what if America is bad, it doesn't change the fact that al-qaida is bad too.

 

[TheodoreRoosevelt]

Chicpoena, marijuana is only number 1 cash crop if you consider illegal drugs a legitimate cash crop, which I don't think is usually the case. You are referring to a report by a drug legalization advocate. If you have sources by the DEA/USDA, please provide them. Otherwise, marijuana isn't exactly our number one cash crop, and please don't be condescending to me it is extremely insulting. I have been only respectful towards you, I would appreciate the respect to be reciprocated.

Again, I'm tired of the flames and people derailing this thread. I would like only talk about the morality of buying drugs, and not American policy or politics. This discussion is only about where does our drug money go, and if you think it is moral or immoral considering where our money goes.

If someone could honestly tell me who is making money off of, say, cocaine or heroin, I would really appreciate it.

I have recently quit heroin, until I can get an answer on this topic. This is no joke.

If some of you can't understand this question, think of it this way: If you knew that buying drugs would support the election campaign of a politician you hated, would you still buy drugs? If buying drugs in 2000 meant supporting George Bush and ultimately responsible for his win, would you have bought drugs? Now, I'm not trying to contradict myself here, but my point is that someone is benefiting from drug money. I'm posing the question that who is benefiting from the drug money, and if it is moral to buy drugs considering that?

Please do not derail this thread, I have asked for close moderator supervision.

 

[smokeymcpot42088]

I see nothing immoral about buying drugs as long as I have nothing against the dealer selling them.

If I know a certain dealer murders people on the routine or has drug addicted females have sex with him for goods, than I will not buy drugs from this person.

What they do with my money after I purchase, I dont care about at all. If they use the money to support terrorist cells, I don't care, thats their choice/responsibility not mine. They would've made that ten dollars with or without me, not like if I dont personally buy drugs they won't be sold. Further more I don't think its my decision to decide who's right and wrong.

Yes I would still buy drugs if I knew the dealer was contributing to either bush or bin laden, the drugs would sell anyways. I support dealers, they in turn can support whoever they see fit. If I thought the dealer was going to immediately use my money to buy a gun and knock someone off, than I wouldn't buy from them because I see THEM as immoral. If they choose to give my money to someone else and that person chooses to kill someone, well let my dealer have that on his conscience, not me, but mostly the person who pulled the trigger.

Not the best arguement/justification in the world, but its how I feel.

 

[TheodoreRoosevelt]

If I know a certain dealer murders people on the routine or has drug addicted females have sex with him for goods, than I will not buy drugs from this person.

Really. Wow, you make me feel like shit dude, even I don't care about that.

All I mean is like, if my money is somehow related to al-qaida, or some terrorist cell in like Colombia, or even if it went to the Democratic Party(read: Republican party if you are liberal) then I would not buy drugs anymore from that source.

I mean right, i know its just goin to my thug dealer or whatever. But he's buying it from someone, whos buying it from someone, whos buying it from someone, who buying it from .... ???

I mean if its just some kingpin in afghanistan who just wants to make money, cool. But if it's like al-qaida I will never touch heroin again.

They would've made that ten dollars with or without me, not like if I dont personally buy drugs they won't be sold.

Maybe, but it sure as hell won't be my ten dollars.