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Is assisted-suicide morally permissable?

I think so. Everyone should be able to make their own decision on when they've had enough of this world and want to move on to whatever. Sick or not sick, no diff. I've heard a lot of peeps say"well u gotta be terminal" or something to that effect but IMHO I don't think it matters much. We should all be free to make that decision for ourselves. Problem would be finding someone to off a "healthy" person givin the stigma, laws etc. I can go on and on but I'm no philosopher so I digress...
 
Cliffy78 said:
I think so. Everyone should be able to make their own decision on when they've had enough of this world and want to move on to whatever. Sick or not sick, no diff. I've heard a lot of peeps say"well u gotta be terminal" or something to that effect but IMHO I don't think it matters much. We should all be free to make that decision for ourselves. Problem would be finding someone to off a "healthy" person givin the stigma, laws etc. I can go on and on but I'm no philosopher so I digress...
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It's too late and I'm too tired to go into this at any level of depth that it deserves, just wanted to point out that assisted suicide outside of the context of a terminal illness would most likely be when someone is depressed - why else would they want to kill themselves? I don't think it's morally acceptable to help a depressed person kill themselves when they're suffering from a temporary illness that's warping their thinking and thus their judgement when there's every chance that they'll get better and enjoy life again, it is a permanent solution to a very temporary problem.
 
Captain.Heroin said:
Depression, alongside many mental health conditions, can be chronic.
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But in the vast majority of cases, depression is not a chronic lifelong illness. For those suffering from clinical depression, they will average only four episodes in their lifetime. Half of those who experience depression recover and never have another episode again, of the half that have another episode, only 15% will suffer from it recurrently throughout their lives. Dysthymia is a lifelong condition but suicidal ideation is much, much less common in dysthymics due to it being far less intense than clinical depression, and dysthymia responds better to treatment than clinical depression, and even among those who experience recurrent episodes of depression for their lifetime, it is exceedingly rare for it to be present 100% of the time, and when their in remission they obviously won't want to kill themselves. My original points still stand. To clarify, for those very, very rare and unlucky people who suffer from chronic, treatment-resistant depression for their entire lives, of course they should be allowed to kill themselves, but that is simply not the case for the vast majority of those suffering from depression. The statistics I've already given show that only 0.075% of people experiencing depression have it recurring throughout their lifetime, and an even smaller fraction of that won't have remission in between episodes. If everyone who wanted to commit suicide because they were depressed were given a sanctioned, easy and painless way to do it like unrestricted access to euthanasia would give it would be a huge and needless waste of life for a temporary condition that is warping their thinking.
 
Hmmm, those are very interesting numbers. I've never heard those stats before but I think super major depression 100% of the time is a bit more prevalent. Not a ton but .075% seems exceedingly low but u probably know much more about stats than I do for sure. What about people with nothing and no one? I mean perfectly "healthy" people who just wake up everyday and go to work, come home, go to work etc? Where the grind of living just becomes monatanous(sp). And there's a "spiritual" death. Idk I'm with u though I don't want to get too deep into this cause it's hurting my head lol...
 
Cliffy78 said:
Hmmm, those are very interesting numbers. I've never heard those stats before but I think super major depression 100% of the time is a bit more prevalent. Not a ton but .075% seems exceedingly low but u probably know much more about stats than I do for sure. What about people with nothing and no one? I mean perfectly "healthy" people who just wake up everyday and go to work, come home, go to work etc? Where the grind of living just becomes monatanous(sp). And there's a "spiritual" death. Idk I'm with u though I don't want to get too deep into this cause it's hurting my head lol...
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Most people have a "hedonic set point", a level of well being that remains stable throughout their entire lives. Whilst circumstances may make how happy you are rocket up or down - i.e. winning the lottery, getting into a terrible accident - these changes don't last long and people tend to go back to the same level of well being regardless of circumstances. This explains why there's actually more depression in the west than in poverty stricken countries, and studies have confirmed that people's general level of well being, once they're raised out of absolute poverty, are generally stable throughout their lives. That's why people who are significantly miserable all the time aren't just written off as seeing "the monotony of daily life" but are classified as having a psychiatric illness, and the converse is true as well, if people are extremely happy and excitable all the time despite the circumstances they're called hypomanic or manic, which is another psychiatric condition.
 
That makes good sense. I.e winning lotto/car accident. I see what I mean by this. You get a "high" when winning lotto and a "low" from a car accident. I won 20k on scratcher once so I can definitly vouch for the"high" or adrenaline rush. It is temporary though so I'm thinking... I've had that come down and the 20k became "well that's not so much" everything comes back to negativity for me, this is one of the reasons I "enjoy" my pain meds. So what about substance usage(not abuse in the typical sense) in major depressives? I've broken out of it when I take my meds but it's fleeting. You seem to be very well versed so i just wanted your opinion in this, what do you think about long acting opioids as treatment by people like myself? I suffer from geez well at least 10 psyc illnesses but I get great relief from oxycodone(prescribed for pancreatitis). I honestly can say that I would've taken my life by now if it wasn't for the opiates. I just think this could help others, I get more relief with less meds from say the op long-acting formulation than from the instant release which I'm prescribed. This sounds counter intuitive to me though if it's simply about euphoric effects. I've never taken huge nod out doses, but I know many who only use large doses whereas less would be a "waste" to them... Sry for rambling but I've always been very interested in this subject...
 
Cliffy78 said:
That makes good sense. I.e winning lotto/car accident. I see what I mean by this. You get a "high" when winning lotto and a "low" from a car accident. I won 20k on scratcher once so I can definitly vouch for the"high" or adrenaline rush. It is temporary though so I'm thinking... I've had that come down and the 20k became "well that's not so much" everything comes back to negativity for me, this is one of the reasons I "enjoy" my pain meds. So what about substance usage(not abuse in the typical sense) in major depressives? I've broken out of it when I take my meds but it's fleeting. You seem to be very well versed so i just wanted your opinion in this, what do you think about long acting opioids as treatment by people like myself? I suffer from geez well at least 10 psyc illnesses but I get great relief from oxycodone(prescribed for pancreatitis). I honestly can say that I would've taken my life by now if it wasn't for the opiates. I just think this could help others, I get more relief with less meds from say the op long-acting formulation than from the instant release which I'm prescribed. This sounds counter intuitive to me though if it's simply about euphoric effects. I've never taken huge nod out doses, but I know many who only use large doses whereas less would be a "waste" to them... Sry for rambling but I've always been very interested in this subject...
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Before I give any opinion I must know - you think you have TEN psychiatric illnesses!?! That's quite a bold statement, mind elaborating a bit???
 
I'm dx with maj. Dep. social anx.d/o,panic d/o, ADHD,body dismorphia, anti social pers.d/o, gen.anx.d/o, schitzo effective, and agoraphobia. Only 9 sry bout that lol. Wow I never really wrote them all out like that, that looks terrible :(
 
I uploaded some notes on euthanasia laws from a Biomedical Ethics class in which I was enrolled a few semesters ago (just to clarify- this is a philosophy course with a focus on medical issues). It seems like you may be interested in looking over some of it. It has nothing to do with my own personal thoughts on the matter, but is relevant nonetheless & may offer something of value to you.

http://pastebin.com/U2AyPcLg
 
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Great info thx for the link :)
Wow they allow children to die, hmmm a whole new turd in the punch bowl. Crazy moral/ethical implication there...
 
I believe it is generally moral when it comes to terminal illness without mental illness. It starts to get a bit murky with mental illness because I feel that it’s morality is dependent on whether or not the person is of sound mind to make that decision and fully grasps the ramifications. The difficulty with that is, How do you really know if someone is capable of making that decision? Is this something they will get over in one month? I have known people that were suicidal in their young 20’s and now 20 years later they are leading happy and fulfilled lives. I know people that are suicidal when they stop taking their meds but once they are back on their meds are completely different people that seem truly happy.

There are so many variables that it’s really hard to view this as a black and white morality issue. At the very least I feel there should be a lengthy waiting period just to make sure the person feels the same way weeks or months later.
 
Cliffy78 said:
I'm dx with maj. Dep. social anx.d/o,panic d/o, ADHD,body dismorphia, anti social pers.d/o, gen.anx.d/o, schitzo effective, and agoraphobia. Only 9 sry bout that lol. Wow I never really wrote them all out like that, that looks terrible :(
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You don't have nine psychiatric conditions. Let's see now - major depression and schizoaffective disorder are mutually exclusive in that schizoaffective disorder encompasses episodes of depression as part of the illness so saying you have both is nonsensical. Social anixety, panic disorder and generalised anxiety disorder, under new guidelines, are all being treated as one illness so they cancel out. Agoraphobia is just that, a phobia, and not a psychiatric illness and anti-social personality disorder is also not technically a psychiatric illness but I can see why you'd count it as such. So really you only have five psychiatric disorders, and although that's still a lot and I really feel for you, it's not quite ten. Would you mind telling me a little more about anti-social personality disorder from the perspective of a sufferer? I'm not at all familiar with it.
 
You will never know what someone is feeling or going through. Morally decent yes.
Now, who decides about the action itself needs to be quite open minded person and have support nearby.
I wish this when my day comes and don´t wanna have to answer questions about how depressed I am.
Everyone knows when enough is enough.
 
Myxomatosis said:
I uploaded some notes on Euthanasia laws from a Biomedical Ethics class in which I was enrolled a few semesters ago. It seems like you may be interested in looking over some of it. It has nothing to do with my own personal thoughts on the matter, but is relevant nonetheless & may offer something of value to you.

http://pastebin.com/U2AyPcLg
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Thank you I liked reading it. One thing that caught the eye is that all this done in the name of law through various rigors which fault over time (IE not get prosecuted). It is as if the patient must undergo a trial to satisfy the needs of standard medical practices (which have ethical implications already). Morality is empathy. So I would say this is the best we can do as humans where suicide is illegal.
 
Shrooms00087 said:
Thank you I liked reading it. One thing that caught the eye is that all this done in the name of law through various rigors which fault over time (IE not get prosecuted). It is as if the patient must undergo a trial to satisfy the needs of standard medical practices (which have ethical implications already). Morality is empathy. So I would say this is the best we can do as humans where suicide is illegal.
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Exactly, nicely put! I didn´t know suicide itself is illegal.
 
Rio Fantastic said:
You don't have nine psychiatric conditions. Let's see now - major depression and schizoaffective disorder are mutually exclusive in that schizoaffective disorder encompasses episodes of depression as part of the illness so saying you have both is nonsensical. Social anixety, panic disorder and generalised anxiety disorder, under new guidelines, are all being treated as one illness so they cancel out. Agoraphobia is just that, a phobia, and not a psychiatric illness and anti-social personality disorder is also not technically a psychiatric illness but I can see why you'd count it as such. So really you only have five psychiatric disorders, and although that's still a lot and I really feel for you, it's not quite ten. Would you mind telling me a little more about anti-social personality disorder from the perspective of a sufferer? I'm not at all familiar with it.
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Hello again rio, sry it took so long to reply but I'm out of pain meds and I'm all doubled over. Damn subs sure are great for preventing wd but doesnt help a lick for pain, grrr.
I didn't know those weren't their own issues and personally the dsm does not matter to me. No one knows how bad these things are until they are suffering from them so to say these are all not their own illnesses to me rings untrue. I'm not bashing you or what you said as I'm sure your technically correct but until you walk a mile it's impossible to know. I just posted the illnesses dx'd on my soc. Sec. Disability paperwork since that's the only place I've ever seen them all listed at once.(not knocking what u said in last post, just stating my opinion. Sry I tried to not flip out)
As far as the aspd goes it's not very easy to explain and my dr dx'd it without my knowledge. I believe it has to do with my misinterpreting social cues and aggressiveness in certain situations. When I was young in school I was constantly in fights, well hmmm, for me to explain y I think he dx'd this it would take a life story. Shit let me try and shorten it best I can, I grew up a child of drug addicts/dealers. Most of my uncles/aunts were also dealers/addicts so I learned early on to not take shit from anyone. Problem is I now know I learned the wrong way of dealing with this. I still can't really control it(I.e fights even as a 20-35yr old.) I've done my stints in the can and there u learn to look out for yourself even at the cost of exploiting others if nessecary to stay alive. I've never been a physically big person so I used cunning and sheer aggressiveness(pick up a stick, surprise attacks, choking with rope etc.) to gain the upper hand in situations that, I guess didn't war rent such action. To me they did, and still do, but I've learned to show more sympathy and be a better person in the past five or so yrs. lately I've been better as far as this goes but it's still there, lurking in the recesses of my mind. Now I just don't go out, I take cabs instead of busses that kinda thing. When my panic sets in, like on a packed bus, my "survival instinct" kicks in and any perceived slight is dealt with forcefully. Me being very small now makes this very dangerous for me cause I've gotten stomped,beaten, hospitalized etc. I'm down to 105lbs because of the chronic pancreatitis. So I'm on my way out anyways so whatever happens really doesn't bother me. I just don't give a shit about myself, and I really don't give a fuck about anyone trying to fuck with me... I've always carried weapons, even in school umm sice I would say about 8 yrs old. Knives, impact batons, later guns, tasers, mace, u know the usual things lol. I was evicted from 2 school systems as a kid, once for stabbing a big ass kid was bullying me(I'd do it again too), and once for attacking the vice principal. So well I can keep going on and on but all that's probably the basis for that dx.
Don't take this all wrong, I've really grown a lot as a person and matured a great bit. I'm now a caring person who cares more for others suffering much more than my own. It's just when I'm out in public places with strangers my social phobia kicks in then the panic and it can end up bad so I stay out of those situations and I've kept out of trouble for about 5-6 yrs now. I know everyone's now gonna think I'm some kind of crazy animal now or something but I just don't see a need to lie here on an anon. Website with people I consider my only friends. Sad I know..
Like I was saying earlier though, the opiates I take for pain make me more outgoing"social" and less aggressive"calm the thoughts", they help my depression a great deal as well, my panic virtually disappears, and while I still avoid social situations I find that it's much less of a battle within myself to like ummm, got to the store say or do laundry at the laundrymat. That's when I do my chores that can't be avoided... Long acting meds work even better and with those they actually work for about 8-9 hrs so I don't end up short at the end of the month. My dr is putting me in pm now so they can script me the long acting meds vs the instant release I get now. Of course that's for pain and not for my psyc issues but they help a great deal with both. And that's what I wanted your opinion on, long acting opioid meds for certain cases of mental illness. I know it wouldn't work for most and most would probably od straight away but not all people take the meds crazily, I get 3x15mg Oxys a day. I've been on this amt for 5yrs(notice I've kept out of trouble for 5yrs.) but it's not nearly as effective as it used to be hence the go sending me to pm. I went to pm 3 yrs ago but I was afraid to switch to fentanyl(big mistake by me) and some p10s for bt pain. But if I was a super duper addict I would've jumped on those but I didn't want to trade my bird in hand that actually gave me some relief at that time. I just wanted to give u a little background for you honest and what seems to be educated opinion on this matter... Sorry it was so long but I couldn't really explain it in any shorter way. And sry for the run on sentences and the like.. Thank you
There's so much I didn't put in post so I know it's really hard to get a good history. I was a very heavy drinker from 16/17-23 yrs old , helped me deal with social situations and paranoia . I've been prescribed klonipin but it's useless for any of my issues so I told the dr to stop prescribing those after I tried them for 6 mths... Thought that was useful info is all, sry.
 
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I tried it awhile ago and the amt I need to cover my physical pain isn't obtainable but Ty I do appreciate the idea and you taking the time to respond :) it was 80 mg to be effective for pain and it didn't help my other issues really. Gave me a god awful tremors as well, idk what that was about but I've tried it 3x and it happened everytime . I have a seizure problem so idk if it was messing with that or wtf was up. It was a long nightmare everytime
Shit my power cord I fucked I gotta find a way to charge this thing :0
 
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