Is addiction a disease?

[Khadijah]

i cheacked the search engine and nothin came up so I wanna know yalls thoughts on this. the cocaine thread made me think of it.

In AA and NA and basically anything Anonymous, the rule is "addiction is a disease, there is no cure, the only treatment is swearing off all drugs forever." they also teach cross addiction meaning...if you were a dopehead, and you get off dope, if you start drinking, you gonna be a alcoholic.

They almost treat it like in church, even doe some AA/Na's claim to not be affiliated with any religion and its just finding your "higher power." if your higher power is your dog, fine, they just want you to believe in a higher power i guess as somethign for you to hold onto.

But it reminds me of church confession where its like "you sinned but pray real hard and confess and you can be forgiven and hope for god to give you the strength to not do it again" type of shit.

I got many problems with the shit they teach. some of it is useful and some of it is the only thing that works for people because they NEED that black and white, right and wrong, to be able to stay sober cuz as soon as theres a gray area theyre already gone.

But to people who are interested in self control (hahahahaaa, i know.) or the idea that we have to MAKE ourselves stop....its like a cheap way out or some shit ya kno

I aint disregarding any help that NA or AA has gave anyone over time, they really help alot of people liek i said. but im someone who aint satisfied until i can say i did it myself. i think some people rather just have the safety and security of having rules they make for themselfes to keep them on track and some people always play devils advocate even to themselves. like i dont want to not do heroin cuz i removed myself from the people and places i associate with it. i wanna have a bag in front of me and turn it down, THATS when i know i truly conquered it, cuz otherwise its just puttin yourself in a "addiction proof" bubble that dont always work with the real world.

the way that the disease idea of addiction puts it is that if you are a addict, and you go to rehab or whatever and stop, you are still a addict even when the substance aint entered your body for the past 6 years. you still need your meetings, and that shit, and the theory goes that if you, even years later, came in contact with a chance to use your past drug of choice, you would have no choice in it, no control, because your "disease" would choose for you, and you would be right back there smokin rock or drinkin Seagrams again.

I know different branches of the Anonymouses and anyone who supports the disease model of addiction all put a different spin on it, and different counselors, and etc. all preachin the same thing but to different degrees. Kinda the same way theres a difference between a harsh old gospel baptist church where satans' comin anyday now and a "contemporary christian" church that accepts gays, etc.

So, what do yall think about addiction? I know its a complex thing and a thread just about addiction would be liek 5000 pages long. but my issue here is more related to the Anonymouses and how they present it as a ever constant battle and even if youre a junkie when youre 18 and quit that year, when youre 80 you still need to go to meetings and introduce yourself as My name is ____ and im a addict with 68 years of sobriety. LOL.

so what the word?

 

[Synto_]

lacey_k : I've been thinking about almost everythig you posted for a good 3 weeks to a month. I've got soo much to say about it (having just completed 2 weeks inpatient, 6 weeks outpatient based on the NA/AA 12 step program). I'll post more later tonight

 

[blahblahblahblah]

I think alcohol/drug addiction can be a disease

 

[CloudyHazeD]

yes....there are definately some genetic predispositions involved in addiction.....

is that considered disease?

 

[stoy420]

I'd say its more of a 'disorder'

 

[Tokey-tokerson]

Well I grew up around AA/NA because my dads a meth head. Its almost like everyone just gave me and my sister the pass to do anything. Its was like since I was born: "tokey, your going to grow up and become massivley addicted to drugs, then someday you'll sober up and get help". the people there acctually made fun of me when I was like 15 because I was so straight lace. "Oh NOOO Tokey never Driiiinks he'ss a baby" type of shit. Thats pretty much been the only relationship Ive had with my dad was talking about how to use meth and stuff like that. Oh yeah my sisters doing the same stuff too. So yeah it might be breading, or it might be taught. Theres no telling ha.

 

[rat tat tat tat]

I hate AA/NA with a passion. I was at one AA meeting that I was forced to go to for a rehab. All that bullshit they give you, it's so funny. Yeah, I think an addiction is a disease. However, the cure is whatever you are addicted to. It's so obvious the cure isn't to get help, thinking about a drug constantly, craving it everyday, is not what I call "cured".

I guess this is getting onto another topic but it's so wierd seeing this whole sub-culture of middle aged alchoholics and junkies going to picnics and meetings together. It seems so wierd just going to work and going to fucking meetings every weekend so you stay sober. It suprised me to see so many who've fucked their lives cuz of booze, fuck, there's was like me and a few others that actually there for crack/coke and shit that's alot fucking better than being drunk.

 

[RollinJ]

It suprised me to see so many who've fucked their lives cuz of booze, fuck, there's was like me and a few others that actually there for crack/coke and shit that's alot fucking better than being drunk.

so are you saying alcohol does not deserve to be viewed as a harmful drug, par with coke? i think that alcohol can be just as addictive and harmful as coke, especially because it is socially accepted and cheap.

 

[drug_wench]

i disagree with them as well - i havnt bn 2 many meetings but i always think - hey, if ive got this disease that makes me immediately addicted 2 all drugs, how come ive tried so many drugs im not addicted to
just cos ur addicted 2 one drug doesnt mean ur addicted 2 all drugs
i mean i crave meth like nuthing else, but i can take utha shit like coke and stay up a few days on it, even use fairly solidly 4 a month or so and neva care if i dont touch it afta that as long as i get meth
does that make me an addict? nope, just a meth addict
also it pisses me off that no one will bother 2 take u seriously at clinics and that if u still smoke pot and hav the odd drink - its like they see u as a lost case if u touch anything once uve bn deemed an addict

 

[VerbalTruist]

Its a disease in my opinion. I have a very long and winded opinion about it that I don't want to get critized for. If you'd like me to spill it Pm me and I'll talk to you about it.

 

[ast3r3x]

It's a disease by definition. However I don't know if people get physically addicted on their first try, I think it's really a lack of ability to regulate yourself. Which I aim at stupidity, but maybe that is too narrow minded.

I don't have a problem saying addiction to drugs is a disease since it's a problem you'll have to live with the rest of your life that could cause physical problems. I don't really like to think of gambling and shopping as real addictions though.

 

[Khadijah]

the prob i got w/it being considered a disease is...

a disease is caused by physical and chemical things in your body. the same reason that alot of people now dont consider a mental problem a disease, cuz even doe it can be caused by physical and chemical changes especially in your brain, it being a "diseease" dont take anything psychological into account unless its chemical...

for example, some people are depresed because they think too much, see too much in the world to be depressed about, circumstances goin on in their life, inner struggles, emotional problems, abuse, etc and some people are just depressed because of chemical imbalances. most times its inbetween and caused by both sometimes more of one or the other.

some people might be on antidepressants and feel normal again, cuz its all just a imbalance and no other strings attached.

but some might just get blunted to the feelings and shit int eh outside world when they go on medication, and their thoughts are shut down so that they aint happy, aint sad, but dont feel shit, and that can be another form of being depressed....
but what im gettin at with all this is addiction aint purely physical and chemical. there is alot of mental shit goin on in there too. theres alot of thoughts and ideas and feelings and shit. a disease is AIDS or leprosy...but to me how can somethin thats a product of someones brain and not body be a disease. i guess that depends on where you see the line between body and mind.

Anyways, maybe someone DOES fit the AA'NA profile of a addict but maybe other people have more complicated issues goin on in there that guide the choices they make about usin/quittin, instead of something like "i am a addict, i cant help being this way, theres nothing i can do to change it, its beyond control, this is just who i am, i just gotta have it as my cross to bear" type of thing.

i dont know...i think it can be both but i think that the 12 step shit can be bullshit and even imprison some people with a addiction to 'addiction-recovery' know what i mean. liek the picnics, meetings, constant reinforcement of shit, etc and all te ultimatums they give in what they teach....i guess to some its a tool, to other ppl its a crutch that they lean on cuz they been led to believe that they cant do it any other way...

 

[snailman2102]

I don't have any experience with NA/AA, but I am pretty involved with the scientific/medical community, and I can tell you that most medical professionals and biologists agree that addiction is a disease. This means that there are unique and identifiable chemical changes that occur in the brains of people who are addicted to something. There are plenty of scientists and scientific journals that are entirely devoted to uncovering the chemical mechanisms of addiction.

Some people, because of their genetic makeup, are predisposed to developing addictions, which is to say some people have to try harder than others to become addicts. In many cases, a person is uniquely predisposed to a certain addiction, they will have trouble with alcohol, for example, but will be fine with cigarettes, gambling, whatever. Other people, and I think these are actually in the minority, are genetically predisposed to develop addictions in many areas.

The stuff about being an addict for life has some basis in scientific fact. It's generally accepted that once you become dependent on a substance or activity it makes a permanent impact on your brain (a chemical change), and even years later, if you start using again, you will fall quickly back into your old pattern of usage (or abuse, in this case).

Lacey your comments about the division between body and mind are interesting. There are many who would argue that the mind can be reduced to a complex array of chemical reactions, and as such is just another part of the body, like the liver or spleen or whatever, but way more complicated.

I feel like I'm rambling a little so time to stop. Hopefully there's something of interest in here.

 

[zephyr]

The definition of disease:

1)A pathological condition of a part, organ, or system of an organism resulting from various causes, such as infection, genetic defect, or environmental stress, and characterized by an identifiable group of signs or symptoms.

2) A condition or tendency, as of society, regarded as abnormal and harmful.


Addiction can be considered a disease, not only on the addict but on society as a whole as it causes a wide range of health, social and economic problems.

I think a lot of people get turned off the idea of treating addiction like a disease as it can make it an excuse for antisocial behaviour- "I drove drunk as I am an alcoholic, I am not liable for hitting that other car due to diminished responsibility" sorta thing.

The drug itself is not the disease. Its the craving for the drug, what you are prepared to do to get the drug, the withdrawals if you dont have the drug.

If addiction were easily curable, with a vaccine of some kind, imagine the untold difference it would make.

 

[Tokey-tokerson]

I think addiction is related to depression or add or one of the other disorders. Its just that some people are born with a very addictive personality. I dont think a workaholic is any different from an alcoholic (besides the physical addiction of alcohol), certain people just latch on to what makes them content, and then really drive it into the ground.

 

[Khadijah]

Aight, so now that the definition of a dieasese is clear, now on to the question of:

IIf addiction IS a disease, does it mean that theres no free choice involved in addiction?

Are you a slave to the drug, and the only way to get off it is to remove yourself from your friends, your dealers, the places you used to get high, the places you used to chill when you were waiting to go get high, TV shows with the drug in them, people who talk about the drug, and etc.?

Would it be impossible, no chance, for you to get off it yourself? Is a intervention and other kind of interference NECESSARY to get you off?

The disease-addict thing seems to say that since you are a prisoner, a slave to the drug youre addicted to, there would be no ability for you to get off it uunlses someone else makes you, because your addiction always tells you what to do and you cant control what you do since the addiction has took over.

in that mentality, yo coulndt make yourself quit because you aint in the drivers seat of your brain and body any more...But

Not everybodys like that.

no shit, addictions different for everyone and like i was sayin, i dont think certain ideas about addiction are true for everyone.

certain people benefit off of some treatment and other ones dont and the other way around.

(ill be honest, i could never bring myself to go to a "meeting." i been thru enough to qualify, no doubt, but i just cant make myself go, it just grates me the wrong way.
BUT i dont know one person who im close to who aint done it. My boyfriend of 3 yrs, my closest homegirl, my closest homie, every other person i chill with, my uncle, my other uncle, my moms, most of my friends moms, etc. so i been 12-steppin from the sidelines for a long time. so even doe i never went to a meeting i think i know enough whats goin on there to comment, i might as well have just eben there for all i hear about my peeps experiences in rehab, talked about the shit they teach, read the AA booklets, etc. But if i do say anything wrong about what theyre about, correct me.)

BUt it seems like the Anon's dont recognize that there could be any type of addiction other than the "drug takes over your body and your willpower is destroyed and youre a mindless drug robot that needs NA to get better."
they got a one-siez-fits-all thing goin on there and i dont like it. they playin jesus man.

While its true that addiction is a problem that something like only 15% of people totaly defeat and recover from, sometimes i wonder at what cost is that "recovery..." being dependent on meetings and reinforcement from your sponsor your whole life til the day you die? accepting that you have no will, and just belieeving that, instead of knuck'in up and saying, "No, i cant have a drink, because im a alcoholic." not "I cant control if i drink or not so i cant go to my daughters wedding cuz there will be alcohol there."

i guess its better to be a slave to NA than a slave to crack. but for all the talkin they do about cross addiction, and to be careful about not replacing one addiction with another, and etc, everybody knows that every goddamn alkie/druggie in there got a pack of cigarettes in one hand and coffee in the other, and is filling in all the extra time in their life that the drug used to fill, with meetings and related shit. thats some talkin-out-both-sides of ya mouth there.

If the programs can help people good....but what about the people that see it (addiction) as somethign more than NA and believe that theres alot more to it than repeating the serenity prayer and getting to the blue keychain.

Aight im talkin too much....be back later to break it up....

BUt in the meantime

A Awesome book about this shit. At first i didnt like it, but its REALLY interesting and raw.

"A Million Little Pieces" by James Frey. He was a alkie/crackhead/cokehead/gluesniffer/etc. basically "anythign to get me high" and went into rehab literally hanging onto life by a thread, one of those "you use again, you gona die" cases.
He didnt believe in the 12 step shit and basically thought it was all a load of shit but he stayed in the rehab cuz it was better than the streets, and blows all the counseolors minds who dont believe in him, see him as a failure cuz he wont accept the 12 steps, wont be on the "team" and does his own thang, and he proves them wrong. kinda like a renegade rehabber LOL. But its his autobiography, his true story which is what makes it so interesting.

 

[Tokey-tokerson]

^^ Yeah the top half of your post pretty much sums it up as far as quiting goes.

Theres a lot of stories you'll here at state aa conventions that are like that. Really interesting. I remember this one guy was so addicted to alcohol that he couldnt get off of it, and he had jaundice. Basically he would die if he drank any more. So he would put drop vanilla& vodka, and other weird alcohol drinks in his eyes with a dropper. He also snorted them.

 

[PureLife]

They state it as a disease to gain a better aspect of acceptence. We'll look at these two sentences and tell me which one is better

1. I am addicted to drugs.

2. I have a disease, ( alcholism, heroin addiction)

sounds all like a lot of bullshit to me. I barely accept addiction being a disorder. Everyone has the ability to say no to something. The first time you took that line or hit, did you HAVE to take it. The second time you did it, did you HAVE to do it. Did you have a choice? yes. It's just, once you get so far down the road, you become dependent on it, mentally or physically. It isnt a disease. Man, people need to take responsibility over there fucking actions. Some people need to step it up, instead of blaming the drugs, the dealers, the friends, blame it on your pity ass self who got into the whole mess.

This isn't aimed at anyone. Just my two cents of anger about the whole AA fad.

 

[**hAyzzZZ**]

I barely accept addiction being a disorder. Everyone has the ability to say no to something. The first time you took that line or hit, did you HAVE to take it. The second time you did it, did you HAVE to do it. Did you have a choice? yes. It's just, once you get so far down the road, you become dependent on it, mentally or physically. It isnt a disease. Man, people need to take responsibility over there fucking actions. Some people need to step it up, instead of blaming the drugs, the dealers, the friends, blame it on your pity ass self who got into the whole mess.

I agree, to a certain point though. You are right, no one ever forces you to take that first line, toke or hit. BUT, sumtimes you get in over your head with things. Sometimes you think you can handle it, but really you have no fucking clue what your getting yourself into, until later on down the road when it's possibly too late.

I also agree that people do need to start taking responsibility for their own actions, but that doesnt solve their problems. Realising your an addict and accepting that it was your own doing, really wont help if your not prepared to help yourself. Because i mean at the end of the day, its not your counsellor, psychiatrist, doctor, carer, anyone... its YOU that ends it.

If addiction were a disease, then who is finding a cure? I think it's deeper than just that, addiction is something in my opinion that blurrs cognitive thinking, all thoughts of common sense, and takes a massive reality check to see what your actually doing.

People arent born addicts, so how do they end up one? *shrugs*

Sorry if this doesnt make sense, im really tired.

 

[Khadijah]

^^No that makes sense.

Im inbetween on it like i said.

I dont like something that tries to soften the blame.....in the long run that dont help cuz think about it....

Person 1: Does heroin daily. steals from his mom, grandma, friends, whoever. steals his parents car at night to make runs to Newark for diesel. family cant leave anything of slight value unlocked cuz it WILL be gone.

He dont go to any rehab meetings. He feels like shit for being that way and wants to kick cuz he sees what hes doin to his fam and hisself. He thinks hes a piece of shit and knows he gotta quit for all those reasons and has the mentality that its his fault, up to him to get his shit together. he might try and quit 3 or 4 or 13 or 45 times. who knows how it will work out. but he knows HE gotta fix the problem.

Person 2: Does heroin daily. steals from his mom, grandma, friends, whoever. steals his parents car at night to make runs to Newark for diesel. family cant leave anything of slight value unlocked cuz it WILL be gone.

Goes to NA meetings where they tell him that it aint his fault that he is the way he is, that HE didnt steal that stash of money hidden in the wall of his parents bedroom, the DISEASE made him do it. It aint his fault. Its the addictions fault. Hes helpless, cant help what he does. His actions aint his own. Stealing was the addiction, betraying his people was the addiction. Hes sorry for what he does, but its to be expected, cuz he cant help it.


Which one do you think would lead to someone taking ahold of their life to try and change it.

If you fail on your own terms, you failed. you gotta get back up again and try again.

If you failed cuz your disease made you do it, it aint your fault that you failed, its OK, cuz what else would you expect from someone with a disease. It justifies shit in a way...they tell you you gotta quit, but that it aint your fault if you fail at quitting. thats basically settin up someone for failure.

its shifting the blame from your actions onto a disease and it aint holding you responsible for what you do.....

ive pawned and sold shit before for dope...been there done that....i was doing it cuz i neede more dope, didnt wanna get sick, craved it...but i knew what i was doing when i was selling that shit for drug money you know....i still chose to do that, and it if wasnt for addiction, i wouldnt have done that, but i still could have chose not to...