Irreversable brain changes after long term use of benzo's

[Nimshie29]

Well done!

 

[Nimshie29]

I agree that using drugs that effect different receptors is probably the less painful way to go when withdrawing.

 

[hydroazuanacaine]

why is it that you can't come off the prescribed benzos because they're not a cure and you were prescribed them for a (remaining) disorder, as opposed to "irreversible brain changes"? fuck that.

 

[EarthBounded]

This is widely debated in the Pharmaceutical world, this is a simple comparison to alcohol, benzodiazepines act on the same receptors as alcohol that is why I put it in perspective like that. So can someone stop drinking after 11 years of course, I am guessing there is some fuzz or miss communication in the permanent changes in GABA receptors, That is not true... They may need time to renew themselves like the rest of the biological world. Either your fabricating what what truly said or your doctors are wrong. You are not permanently changed because of benzo's however your perspective will be changed and life will be different withdrawal is not easy.

why is it that you can't come off the prescribed benzos because they're not a cure and you were prescribed them for a (remaining) disorder, as opposed to "irreversible brain changes"? fuck that.

I dont understand what you are saying here. Please re phrase

EB

 

[hydroazuanacaine]

I dont understand what you are saying here. Please re phrase

err, why is the inability to comfortably come off of the drug that was prescribed out of necessity -- a drug that treats symptoms as opposed to curing -- automatically attributed to changes in the CNS caused by the drug as opposed to the state of the CNS that originally prompted the drug's use? fuckthat.

 

[EarthBounded]

err, why is the inability to comfortably come off of the drug that was prescribed out of necessity -- a drug that treats symptoms as opposed to curing -- automatically attributed to changes in the CNS caused by the drug as opposed to the state of the CNS that originally prompted the drug's use? fuckthat.

You would get along great with half the psychologist I have spoke to, we all know Benzo's are a pick your poison ordeal
There are people who need these specific Benzene and Diazepene fusion's, people with certain brain disease, there are alot of drugs that will adjust and throw off your CNS that does not mean they are killing you, and that does not mean there is no benefit.

Take for instance opiate dependence and the lack of knowledge that comes with it, proper care with these medications is essential.

Taking a 100% stance against the Diazepene ring pharmaceuticals and there role in treatment is ludacris, just because you may not need them does not mean others are in the same shoes.

Not all patients respond to other treatments, such as seroquel buspar prosac etc...

 

[ebola?]

Not all patients respond to other treatments, such as seroquel buspar prosac etc...

I don't think that we've yet developed an anxiolytic medication that retains efficacy over the long term with daily use.

ebola

 

[arctica]

I don't think that we've yet developed an anxiolytic medication that retains efficacy over the long term with daily use.

ebola

My anecdotal evidence is something I wouldn't want to have to depend on, but I've taken Klonopin for about 20 years now. Right now I'm on about 2 mg/day. I've taken it both p.r.n. and as a standing dose for years at a time, along with months of not using it at all, depending on the extent of my anxiety at the time. I prefer to use it in a p.r.n. capacity, where tolerance is less likely to develop. I find the effect pretty dependable. Surprisingly, I've never had any issues with habituation/tolerance/withdrawals over 20 years. Benzos seem like a pretty blunt instrument to me. I think they're approximately as effective as a sledgehammer in alleviating anxiety, in that they don't alleviate the underlying anxiety so much as they slow your system to the point where other factors outweigh the anxiety, like the need to immediately go to sleep. My go-to full-blown panic attack knockout dose was the same then as it is now.

Surprisingly given its amphetamine structure, I personally have found MDMA to create the most authentic feelings of lessened anxiety without simply having them masked by sedation. I noticed profound effects on my agoraphobia, social anxiety, etc. on MDMA. Unfortunately, for all sorts of reasons it's not a drug that can be used to combat daily anxiety.

 

[CrimpJiggler]

The problem with benzobuddies is its frequented by the unlucky few who seem to have a really hard time getting off the benzos. You don't hear from the people who have a smoother recovery because they get on with their lives and have no reason to go to a forum dedicated to withdrawals anymore. On a site like this on the other hand, people use this forum to talk about things other than recovery so you're more likely to hear from people who have gotten off them cleanly. On benzobuddies I saw people describing severe withdrawals from xanax after being on it only a few months. I was on xanax for 3 months and barely had any withdrawal symptoms at all. I've heard horror stories of people getting off bupropion. My brother was on it for 2 years, and he said quitting was easy, he barely had any symptoms. My brother never posted about his recovery anywhere. Its mainly people who are having a hard time with recovery that come on the internet and post their experience in order to get advice. When I quit xanax, I went on trazodone to counteract the insomnia, but when I stopped the trazodone I had no trouble sleeping anymore. There is a wide range of substances that will make the withdrawal much easier, provided you don't take them long enough to get addicted to them. Pregabalin, clonidine, trazodone, mirtazapine, hydroxyzine, benzatropine, baclofen etc., none of those interact with GABA_a receptors so you can use them to manage w/d symptoms.

 

[Rebel Maven]

Who The Hell Knows?

It is hypothesized that GABA(A) binding sites in the nucleus accumbens form part of the sequence of events that is triggered by clonidine in an alpha2-adrenergic-specific manner and that ultimately results in a decreased release of dopamine in the nucleus accumbens.

Apparently there is some conflicting information on this but I agree with you.

 

[arctica]

*puts white coat on and funny plague protecting beak*

If you respond well to MDMA, you may find the SSRI crew could help

But, yeah, blunt as hell. The problem is the amnestic/sedatory effects blah blah. But this apparent resistance in the anxiolytic domain is one (of many) reason(s) the GABRA2/3 subunits are attracting a bit of pharma attention.

At this point, get little but anxiolysis from daily low-dose clonaz. Xanax I can go weeks/months without using.

Unfortunately, the SSRI crew has largely been a bust for me, possibly because I have a mutation that causes your serotonin transporters to not transport very well (SLC6A4 S/S). It doesn't really matter how much serotonin you have in your synapses if you can't transport it anywhere. By that reasoning, MDMA shouldn't have had an effect on me either, but I think I also get a more muted effect from MDMA than others at equivalent doses. That being said, a couple of shrinks have suggested that I try a stimulant like Strattera, etc. given my response to MDMA. I haven't tried it because I've been worried that stimulants would increase my anxiety/decrease my sleep/etc., but if I can get myself into a slightly more stable state I will probably give it a whirl.

 

[Tussmann]

There is a wide range of substances that will make the withdrawal much easier, provided you don't take them long enough to get addicted to them. Pregabalin, clonidine, trazodone, mirtazapine, hydroxyzine, benzatropine, baclofen etc., none of those interact with GABA_a receptors so you can use them to manage w/d symptoms.

First and foremost, great post. More importantly, one benzobuddy horror story can overcast dozens of normal cessations.

But, lets add to the list regarding rebound insomnia aids: Melatonin, doxylamine, diphenhydramine, phenibut, glycine, taurine, and I'm sure many more.

 

[Iron666Maiden]

Yeah ive been on any number of benzo's for the best part of 15yrs and although im down to one 5mg diazepam and one 10 mg temazepam a day and night respectively i just cant shake them...ive recently been prescribed mitrazapine 45mg a day and thats what helped me reduce my diazepam use...i know, replacing one drug with another or to help reduction isnt ideal but im heading forward with a clearer outlook and a clearer head...i dunno if this helps at all but it has helped me...it may be worth a chat with your prescribing GP...good luck to all...?

 

[theGirlWithBlueHair]

I find it odd that temazepam only comes in 10mg tablets in other countries.

^Iron666Maiden, do you find any effects from temazepam at 10mg?

 

[Nimshie29]

succes

Many people have come off high-dose/long-term benzo use without significant protracted withdrawal symptoms. I think if you follow an EXTREMELY slow taper plan, perhaps taking place over a year or more, you could successfully be benzo-free without severe PAWS.

There has also been some success using flumazenil (a benzo antagonist) AFTER you have tapered off of benzos. It is hypothesized to "reset" your GABAa receptors, allowing them to function normally (or more normal) in the absence of benzos.

Flumazenil in treatment of protracted benzo withdrawals: http://www.springerlink.com/content/2vpf562teffglej5/fulltext.pdf?MUD=MP

Here is a nice paper explaining the neuroadaptation associated with long-term Benzo dependence:

It can be accessed free at PubMed http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22536226

Thanks to everyone who supported me. I am now completely free of benzos. I take 25mg of myrica at night and hope to cut them. Coming of ssri's at the moment. Using l-tryptamine to get some sleep. I am one of the 80% who has difficulty stopping these. Feel like I am psychotic at times but it passes. Also feel that I am coming out of a dense fog and have a lot more energy and zest. I must not use these type of drugs for long periods or I waste my life. Good luck everyone and hang in there it is worth the suffering.