Heroin Interesting study on opiod injection and endocarditis risk

[paranoid android]

After Purdue Pharma removed OxyContin from the Canadian market replaced with OP new formula……PF Hydromorph-Contin XR beads 3/6/9/12/18/24/30mg capsules + (Hydromorphone XR - Dilaudid 2/4/8mg IR tablets)

After HM Contin scripts skyrocketed……so did Endocarditis (which I too got) ….pulverizing the XR beads into fine powder, adding 0.7ml clean water (and stupidly adding heat, which melts the waxy excipients) although filtered the HM solution was still contaminated with harmful excipients, wax, insoluble compounds etc

After months of daily IV administration of HM Contin I developed heart issues and chest pain. I called 911 immediately and the bus came, took me to the hospital and was told I had endocarditis (inflammation of the protective sack covering the heart) I was given steroid anti-inflammatory meds Prednisone etc

I read an article that after HM Contin scripts dramatically increased so did the cases of Endocarditis due to people injecting the XR beads containing wax and other insoluble excipients. Why? Because Hydromorphone is an AMAZING Opioid narcotic analgesic, most often administered in hospital settings via IV/IM/SC administration- 100% bioavailability……Dilaudid IR tablets are safer to inject….vintage bottles of Dilaudid say “hypodermic tablets” meaning you can orally take them…or dissolve in sterile water and inject.

Oral Hydromorphone has PATHETIC PISS POOR oral bioavailability of approximately 30%…..nearly 70% of the dose is destroyed via first pass metabolism. Your liver destroys 70% of the oral dose……so, to be smart and get most out of your script, people would rather bang it 100% bioavailability

Safest…..draw up HM Contin solution in oral syringe, lay on bed on side, lightly apply lube or whatever, only insert 1/3 to half length of your pinky finger (area in rectum rich in blood vessels) and slowly push plunger in, warm HM solution enters and leave syringe inside, lay on side for few minutes…..you’ll feel the unmistakable sensation of pleasurable opioid euphoric warmth & comfort. Remove syringe and have toilet paper ready to wipe

Safe and VERY effective

Other than that…..Canadian Sandoz Pharmacuticals has on market a tiny 10ml glass vial containing an astonishing 1,000mg’s of pure Pharma Hydromorphone HCL (100mg / per Ml) absolutely amazing

SANDOZ Pharmaceutical
Hydromorphone HP FORT
10ml glass bottle IV/IM/SC administration
100mg / per Ml
Small red labeled Hydromorphone HP FORT 1,000 mg

I wish I have 500 glass bottles in a cold dark fridge
….and 100kg (220 lbs) drum of pharmaceutical grade API compounding powder of Hydromorphone

I shot so many hydromorph contins back in the day but thankfully never had any problems. It's the most addictive opiate ive ever had

 

[Dextro .45]

Oxycodone…..HANDS DOWN most Euphoric pleasure I’ve EVER experienced. Period.
Diamorphine (illicit - 15+ years ago, Excellent quality- actually Diacetylmorphine IV injected)
Dilaudid (Hydromorphone) 2/4/8mg IR + Hydromorph-Contin 9mg XR …POTENT AS F@CK
Methadone 100-125mg oral - 1h C-Max, Super POTENT, high oral bioavailability, long acting

 

[Foreons]

I feel like people say this just to justify their IV use. But I've also never injected my heroin, so since I don't know, I could be wrong.
It just doesn't seem worth it to me. I got plenty high snorting my heroin, no IV complications necessary.

Heroin was literally invented for the purpose of injected it. In Britain, where it is still prescribed, its almost entirely given as an IV, other ways being different types of injecting and epidural. Only illicitly is it snorted, smoked, etc.
I couldn't find the exact article I read to cite (I didnt look very hard) but I didn't come empty handed. This is from an article in ScienceDirect:

"Conclusion​

Heroin dependent patients in heroin-assisted treatment will often prefer diacetylmorphine for injection as the prescribed drug, as it is the most efficient way to achieve their goals of feeling an almost instantaneous ‘rush’ followed by more sustained euphoria. Acceptability of this form of pharmaceutical heroin will therefore be high. Safety can only be ensured by strict dosing schemes to prevent overdose, by supervision following the first 10–15 min after use and by providing a high quality"


Ive been an IV user for 21 years as of about a month ago. I put together 3-4 yrs clean twice during that period however. Anyways Injecting opiates whether pills or heroin my entire addiction but it wasn't until I developed a habit shooting coke that really seemed to do damage to my veins and body. That was 3 or so years ago and it was extremely noticeable. I attributed it partially to the fact that people cut the hell out of coke with the idea that the "cutter" doesnt expect the coke to be shot. So they put all kinds of nonsense in it.
On the plus side it was mostly that and experience that motivated me to begin using micron/wheel filters and then switched to the French ones specifically designed for injecting. Its not full proof but it has helped a lot, along with alcohol and using new needles 95% of the time. Ive developed cotton fever lately almost exclusively from using premade shots after the first day. I suppose I should refrigerate them or use a cooler?? If anyone would like to inform me Id be grateful. Over using the filters also has caused it. For example using the green one to make 6 shots when they are all one-time use.
Where I live east coast united states, almost everyone has switched to smoking. Like the gentlemen above said, If I cant shoot it Id rather quit. I currently inject meth and heroin 10x a day and its those things mentioned that have kept me going this long, clean needles is huge, alcohol wipes (although I heard thats not good for after and healing,) and the filters. FYI meth got popular to combat the fentanyl overdoses although it was also my DOC in high school and college.
I came on here looking for a wash or purification method for some heroin that has something extremely damaging to veins in it. Smells like comet or a cleaning product and instantly collapses the vein. If anyone could point me in the direction of the latest accepted technique or the older ones from the book Id be grateful to them as well.

So IS it the diamorphine or is it the mixture of related compounds that are key to the euphoria. Typically as well as diacetyl morphine, samples will contain morphine, 3-monoacetyl morphine and 6-monoacetyl morphine. In fact, I've read that the last one in that list is MORE potent than H - faster-acting as well.

Its partially a combination but the rush especially lies in the 6-MAM. I also read that in an article likely posted on this site about the Turkish method or preparing Heroin. Basically it talks about how people preheat it because they get a better rush, even though its much more destructive. A study was done comparing the results of different heroin preparations and it showed this method drastically reduced the amount of diamorphine and lowered the total opiate content but inversely raised the proportion of 6-MAM.

 

[helpingout]

Heroin was literally invented for the purpose of injected it. In Britain, where it is still prescribed, its almost entirely given as an IV, other ways being different types of injecting and epidural. Only illicitly is it snorted, smoked, etc.
I couldn't find the exact article I read to cite (I didnt look very hard) but I didn't come empty handed. This is from an article in ScienceDirect:

"Conclusion​

Heroin dependent patients in heroin-assisted treatment will often prefer diacetylmorphine for injection as the prescribed drug, as it is the most efficient way to achieve their goals of feeling an almost instantaneous ‘rush’ followed by more sustained euphoria. Acceptability of this form of pharmaceutical heroin will therefore be high. Safety can only be ensured by strict dosing schemes to prevent overdose, by supervision following the first 10–15 min after use and by providing a high quality"


Ive been an IV user for 21 years as of about a month ago. I put together 3-4 yrs clean twice during that period however. Anyways Injecting opiates whether pills or heroin my entire addiction but it wasn't until I developed a habit shooting coke that really seemed to do damage to my veins and body. That was 3 or so years ago and it was extremely noticeable. I attributed it partially to the fact that people cut the hell out of coke with the idea that the "cutter" doesnt expect the coke to be shot. So they put all kinds of nonsense in it.
On the plus side it was mostly that and experience that motivated me to begin using micron/wheel filters and then switched to the French ones specifically designed for injecting. Its not full proof but it has helped a lot, along with alcohol and using new needles 95% of the time. Ive developed cotton fever lately almost exclusively from using premade shots after the first day. I suppose I should refrigerate them or use a cooler?? If anyone would like to inform me Id be grateful. Over using the filters also has caused it. For example using the green one to make 6 shots when they are all one-time use.
Where I live east coast united states, almost everyone has switched to smoking. Like the gentlemen above said, If I cant shoot it Id rather quit. I currently inject meth and heroin 10x a day and its those things mentioned that have kept me going this long, clean needles is huge, alcohol wipes (although I heard thats not good for after and healing,) and the filters. FYI meth got popular to combat the fentanyl overdoses although it was also my DOC in high school and college.
I came on here looking for a wash or purification method for some heroin that has something extremely damaging to veins in it. Smells like comet or a cleaning product and instantly collapses the vein. If anyone could point me in the direction of the latest accepted technique or the older ones from the book Id be grateful to them as well.


Its partially a combination but the rush especially lies in the 6-MAM. I also read that in an article likely posted on this site about the Turkish method or preparing Heroin. Basically it talks about how people preheat it because they get a better rush, even though its much more destructive. A study was done comparing the results of different heroin preparations and it showed this method drastically reduced the amount of diamorphine and lowered the total opiate content but inversely raised the proportion of 6-MAM.

There was a man
Who was a pincushion
Taking shots all day
Was directly his doing
By morn or by moon
In gale or monsoon
In low light or bright
By day or by night
He’s at the shooting range
Don’t look with disdain
If you’d ever banged
You do well to remember the game
The rush of blood
And the tang of smack
Remember the name
Heroin

Or you could just snort it you fucking deviants

 

[helpingout]

There was a man
Who was a pincushion
Taking shots all day
Was directly his doing
By morn or by moon
In gale or monsoon
In low light or bright
By day or by night
He’s at the shooting range
Don’t look with disdain
If you’d ever banged
You do well to remember the game
The rush of blood
And the tang of smack
Remember the name
Heroin

Or you could just snort it you fucking deviants

Why lose an arm when you could lose a nose?

 

[4DQSAR]

Of course, for decades The Dutch gave oral dextromoramide because when taken orally, dextromoramide produces a rush much like that produced by IV heroin.

So isn't that the best HR option?

I've only tasted Palfium (dextromoramide) once, but I didn't like it BECAUSE it produced an overwhelming rush and I thought I was about to die. But each to their own.

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

Well, the bacterium that causes it commonly (and usually harmlessly) lives on your skin. It's when it's introduced into the bloodstream that it becomes a problem; this is why disinfecting the injection site and using sterile equipment if possible is SO important.

For those unfamiliar with the symptoms, endocarditis often presents in ways that don't directly point to a heart problem in a very obvious way. You might just feel like you have a flu-like illness, get all-over muscle pains, just be generally run down. Maybe short of breath which you might chalk up to a lung problem.

I just want everyone to be aware of this because while it occurs rarely, it is a real danger. I lost my best mate to endocarditis. When it was first spotted the infection was already well-advanced and he required surgery. A couple of years after said surgery he was re-admitted because some bacteria had remained and re-colonised his heart tissue. He unfortunately did not survive his second operation.


PS if anyone reading this would care to look him up in the BL shrine, despite (possibly) none of you knowing him, that would mean a lot.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Not really on Topic but Tramadol got me hooked first as well. It's likely an enzyme variant that makes it hit better or worse for different people

Must be. I assume I had a good level of liver enzymes for tramadol through out my 20's.

But tramadol changed in my 30's and the last time I used it (just a few weeks ago), it was really underwhelming and kind of boring. I use to have to stack 400mg in a day to feel it (even when I had no tolerance) but when I tried that a few weeks ago, I mostly got weird, twitchy & anxiety filled mental effects.

So I think tramadol can be hit or miss depending on your liver enzymes. And those enzymes can even change for individuals through out their lifetime.

Tramadol use to make me itchy, noddy & euphoric, similar to heroin & other opioids (when I had no tolerance to heroin or other opioids that is).

 

[4DQSAR]

Must be. I assume I had a good level of liver enzymes for tramadol through out my 20's.

But tramadol changed in my 30's and the last time I used it (just a few weeks ago), it was really underwhelming and kind of boring. I use to have to stack 400mg in a day to feel it (even when I had no tolerance) but when I tried that a few weeks ago, I mostly got weird, twitchy & anxiety filled mental effects.

So I think tramadol can be hit or miss depending on your liver enzymes. And those enzymes can even change for individuals through out their lifetime.

Tramadol use to make me itchy, noddy & euphoric, similar to heroin & other opioids (when I had no tolerance to heroin or other opioids that is).

Tramadol is an odd one. In the UK at least for around a decade most doctors were prescribing tramadol in place of codeine, dihydrocodone, Co-codamol (500/30 paracetamol/codeine) and Co-dydramol (500/30 paracetamol/dihydrocodeine).

Then we got a spike in fatalities due to tramadol intoxication.

That's because tramadol is actually two chemicals - one the mirror image of the other. One enantiomer (image) is an opioid of similar potency to codeine but the other monkeys around with the levels of extra-cellular monoamines. So in overdose, it does not produce the typical set of symptoms. Victims would tend to suffer seizures, cardiac arrhythmias and other toxicities totally unrelated to it's opioid activity.

So now UK pharmacists have almost all swapped back to prescribing Co-codamol.

The thing is, when Grünenthal introduced tramadol in the 1970s, they KNEW of the unusual toxic profile. But their logic was 'well, as long as patients stick to the 50-100mg every 4-6 hours dose regime, it won't be an issue'. This same logical was almost certainly applied to dextropropoxythene. A weak opioids no longer in use because it claimed so many lives.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Tramadol is an odd one. In the UK at least for around a decade most doctors were prescribing tramadol in place of codeine, dihydrocodone, Co-codamol (500/30 paracetamol/codeine) and Co-dydramol (500/30 paracetamol/dihydrocodeine).

Then we got a spike in fatalities due to tramadol intoxication.

That's because tramadol is actually two chemicals - one the mirror image of the other. One enantiomer (image) is an opioid of similar potency to codeine but the other monkeys around with the levels of extra-cellular monoamines. So in overdose, it does not produce the typical set of symptoms. Victims would tend to suffer seizures, cardiac arrhythmias and other toxicities totally unrelated to it's opioid activity.

So now UK pharmacists have almost all swapped back to prescribing Co-codamol.

The thing is, when Grünenthal introduced tramadol in the 1970s, they KNEW of the unusual toxic profile. But their logic was 'well, as long as patients stick to the 50-100mg every 4-6 hours dose regime, it won't be an issue'. This same logical was almost certainly applied to dextropropoxythene. A weak opioids no longer in use because it claimed so many lives.

Yeah it's crazy. Here in the US, they didn't even recognize tramadol as an opioid or it's other properties, for like 30 fricken years.
When I first discovered tramadol, it was around the end of 2008. My mom was prescribed a shit ton (I think like 180 a month or something like that).
And since it wasn't controlled, you could call your pharmacy & say you lost it & they'd be willing to fill another bottle of it because they seriously believed it was "just like another tylenol".

But I discovered pretty quick that if I took a bunch of them, I'd get high as fuck. Music sounded amazing. Doing physical things sounded amazing (and felt amazing, was able to do more physical labor than I normally would have, without all the aches & pains in my body while doing it). Gave me euphoria, helped me sleep.


I actually learned about tramadol through European literature at the time, because they recognized it as having opioid properties.
But finally around 2013-2014, word started to catch on & the US decided to put tramadol into the controlled susbtances list. So of course from 2014 onward until my mom passed in 2021, they slowly lowered her dose, even though she wasn't even the one taking it. But by 2015, the universe had decided to throw me a heroin dealer out of the blue & that's when my journey with heroin started, as a way to compensate for the less & less tramadol I was getting every month.

Trams were perfect for me back then though. Because I was a drunk & a stoner, but when I had tramadol, I didn't drink alcohol & didn't have much desire to fuck around with other drugs. So when all my coworkers were coming in hung over & feeling tired, I was high as fuck on tramadol & felt "normal", but bursting with energy & a good mood. Motivated & ready to get shit done.

Now of course, I also went through horrendous withdrawals from tramadol every single month for 10+ years. I did the math the other day & that comes out to about 120 tramadol withdrawals that I suffered through in the span of 10 years.

But for a good chunk of those 10+ years or so, tramadol gave me powerful opioid effects in the right dosages. The doses needed to be stacked too otherwise taking it all at once made you feel like you were going to have a seizure. I never allowed myself to go over 400mg a day, usually I'd take the whole dose spread out over an hour & a half or so. And it would last the rest of the day almost. I'm not sure why I loved it so much now though, cause after doing opioids like heroin, buprenorphine, etc.. tramadol sort of lost all of it's magic. But it's still an opioid I think back on very fondly because it gave me some of the most euphoric (yet normal feeling) highs I have ever felt in my life. In my early 20's, I would just go walk around town with my headphones on, on summer nights & they were SO fucking wonderful, that it just became forever scarred into my memory. And I'm almost 40 now & I still look back on those years with a depressed nostalgia. I must have had the perfect body chemistry back then to get the best out of tramadol too. Listening to industrial noise, loops & repetitive industrial sounds while high on tramadol was like my #1 favorite past time.

Is dextropropoxythene, Darvocet? Or is it just propoxyphene? What's the difference between propoxyphene & dextropropoxyphene?
A friend of mine in 2016 found some expired Darvocet in her mother's basement & she brought them to me. They were really big oval brown pills.
I remember I swallowed a few & I think I snorted a few (lots of powder lol), but they got me feeling pretty good. I had never heard of Darvocet at the time, so I had to read about it after that. I saw that many people said it sucked & stuff, but I found it pretty enjoyable. It felt a little dissociative & gave me a nod, was had a feeling reminscent of methadone, but made me nod harder (could have all been because I took on the end of a DXM trip though). And then I discovered about it's cardiotoxic properties & why it was banned. Never got to try it again since then, but I was always thankful that I at least got that one experience from it so I could say I've tried it.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Heroin was literally invented for the purpose of injected it. In Britain, where it is still prescribed, its almost entirely given as an IV, other ways being different types of injecting and epidural. Only illicitly is it snorted, smoked, etc.

Do you have any sources for that?

I can't find anything from when Alder Wright first discovered it.
But when Bayer manufactured it, it was released as powder forms, tablets & tinctures.

I mean according to this website....

A history of syringes and needles

Syringes were invented long before hypodermic needles. Their origins are found in Greek and Roman literature where there are descriptions of hollow reeds for the ritual of anointing the body with oil, and as musical instruments using a plunger to alter the pitch. Discover more about how modern...

medicine.uq.edu.au

"The first hypodermic needle was probably made by Francis Rynd in Dublin in 1844"

So you mean to tell me the first hypodermic needle wasn't even around until 1844, but by 1874 there were enough commercially available needles for everyone to inject heroin multiple times a day? I mean it's possible, which is why I'm asking.

I can't find any information on "heroin being invented to be shot up"... It was originally marketed as "less addictive" than opium & morphine, so I can't imagine they were selling something that's suppose to be "less addictive", while telling people to shoot it up.

The fact that you can even snort heroin to begin with, while you can't really snort drugs like morphine, just shows that heroin is more versatile & doesn't need to be "shot up" in order to get it into the brain. I could almost understand some one shooting morphine since it's oral & nasal bioavailability is trash, but heroin's nasal bioavailability is just fine.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Why lose an arm when you could lose a nose?

Actually, snorting pure heroin isn't gonna be that damaging to your nose. Really only drugs that are caustic (i.e. - things that burn bad when you snort them) are really going to be doing damage. Along with vaso-constricting drugs probably (like cocaine).

Especially if you use some saline rinse once in awhile.

You may end up with a little bit of some sinus irritation or even a little damage (especially if it's street stuff), but I'll take that over "oh I collapsed another vein today" or "oh I got another infection today" or "oh I had another stroke today".

 

[Skorpio]

Yeah injection (all forms) is in a different league of risk than all other ROAs.

Our mouth, gut, nose, and lungs all have posses of specialized immune cells to pick off microbes from the environment. Injection bypasses this first defensive line of immune cells, making sterile technique and filtering super important, because the immune safety net from all the other routes is missing.

 

[4DQSAR]

I'm extremely dubious of anyone whose excuse for continuing to IV a drug is that the same drug damages the nasal passages. Especially when diamorphine is given medically via intranasal administration:

https://apps.worcsacute.nhs.uk/KeyDocumentPortal/Home/DownloadFile/1041

While at the moment it's only approved for use with the smallest (5Mg) dry-amps of diamorphine, one of the main advantages OF diamorphine is it's extremely high solubility in water thus in emaciated patients, lower volumes needed to be injected. So it's entirely possible that they will roll out higher doses and MAY even use it as part of HAT - where vaping diamorphine cut with caffeine is the common method.

On top of that, FYI their is a niche market for 'high rollers' or whatever term you choose who are people who pay for essentially pure diamorphine hydrochloride explicitly so it can be snorted. Most of it appears to come from SE Asia. White heroin which is generally 90-95% pure with caffeine used as the excipient (so if people choose to, they can still vape it) and these are generally people for whom price is no object. They will happily pay £120 (last UK price I heard) for a gram but given the purity, it's not THAT much more costly and we don't have much data as these people rarely trouble our boarder force or our health services.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I'm extremely dubious of anyone whose excuse for continuing to IV a drug is that the same drug damages the nasal passages. Especially when diamorphine is given medically via intranasal administration:

This is a good point. If some one's gonna claim heroin damages your nose & that's why they inject it, then they're pretty hypocritical. lol

And yeah, pure heroin isn't really damaging on the nose/sinuses anyway. So it's moot point to try & say that you'll ruin your nose if you don't inject it instead.

If I remember right, heroin is pretty good at being absorbed through mucus membranes, so if some one had pure heroin & snorted it, there'd barely be any drip or any "fillers" to irritate the nasal passages anyway, cause all that heroin is just gonna be absorbed & taken into the blood stream.

People can argue all day that heroin is better than IV & that they're so "badass" for having a needle addiction. But in the spirit of harm reduction, I will continue to say that heroin is just fine when snorted & that you're not missing out on much by not injecting, except having a shitty & potentially dangerous addiction to a needle.

Plugging things is ALMOST just like IVing them anyway, except none of the dangers of needles. So if people here wanna claim they can't enjoy heroin ANY OTHER WAY than shooting it, they could at least switch to plugging & get their damn "rush" (which you'd get anyway from snorting, just not as quickly) without all the dangers of needles. But they won't because it's not actually about the high they get, it's about the damn needle. Otherwise they'd switch to a nearly identical ROA for safety reasons.

I always got a "rush" from intranasal heroin. It's called "the drugs coming on" and it happens in less than 2 minutes through the nose. And all of those beautiful heroin effects set in nicely. Why I'd wanna potentially turn my favorite drug into a serious health hazard is beyond me. I don't need to be worrying about collapsed veins or if I just shot some wicked bacteria in my bloodstream right after my buzz kicks in. People are just undisciplined about drugs & the people who use drugs like heroin to self destruct & destroy their bodies are the people who give drugs a bad name.

I'm not even necessarily "anti-IVing" anything either. It's just that I don't see the benefit of it in most cases. Doing heroin through the nose or doing it through a vein doesn't magically make it two separate drugs or experiences, no matter how many people claim otherwise. Shooting it might be stronger because it's 100% bioavailability, but okay, now that you've jacked your tolerance up, what are you gonna do? Continue to keep shooting it? Doesn't sound like a bright idea. Some one with no tolerance to heroin is gonna get just as high anyway from whatever amount they get from snorting. And their tolerance won't be super sky high right away because they aren't getting 100% bioavailability. But it's all still the same drug & the subjective experiences can mirror each other & even be completely different for everyone.

Shit I've had tramadol highs that felt IDENTICAL to heroin highs, back when I had no tolerance to opioids at all. Itching/scratching, pure euphoria/inner peace/contentedness, nodding, urinary retention, etc..etc..

We should deter IV use on BL. Or if some one's determined to do it, guide them to do it safely & maybe even lecture them a little. Because I love drugs & it's possible to enjoy them without needles in most cases, if people were just patient & disciplined enough to follow that. I can't tell you how many people online I've argued with because they've told me "heroin causes heart problems"... when in reality heroin DOESN'T cause heart problems, but using needles can. People end up with endocarditis & shit from using needles & then it gets listed as a potential "side effect" or "risk" of heroin use, which is disingenuous. But of course the average doofus citizen arguing with me over heroin just googles the dangers & sees "heart problems" and immediately assumes heroin itself causes heart problems. So people's fixation with using needles causes a wide variety of problems that the masses mistake as problems from the drugs itself. A lot of complications can be avoided by just not picking up a needle in the first place. There should be a damn "other drugs" topic strictly for needles, because the needle itself is an addiction.

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

This is a good point. If some one's gonna claim heroin damages your nose & that's why they inject it, then they're pretty hypocritical. lol

And yeah, pure heroin isn't really damaging on the nose/sinuses anyway. So it's moot point to try & say that you'll ruin your nose if you don't inject it instead.

If I remember right, heroin is pretty good at being absorbed through mucus membranes, so if some one had pure heroin & snorted it, there'd barely be any drip or any "fillers" to irritate the nasal passages anyway, cause all that heroin is just gonna be absorbed & taken into the blood stream.

People can argue all day that heroin is better than IV & that they're so "badass" for having a needle addiction. But in the spirit of harm reduction, I will continue to say that heroin is just fine when snorted & that you're not missing out on much by not injecting, except having a shitty & potentially dangerous addiction to a needle.

Plugging things is ALMOST just like IVing them anyway, except none of the dangers of needles. So if people here wanna claim they can't enjoy heroin ANY OTHER WAY than shooting it, they could at least switch to plugging & get their damn "rush" (which you'd get anyway from snorting, just not as quickly) without all the dangers of needles. But they won't because it's not actually about the high they get, it's about the damn needle. Otherwise they'd switch to a nearly identical ROA for safety reasons.

I always got a "rush" from intranasal heroin. It's called "the drugs coming on" and it happens in less than 2 minutes through the nose. And all of those beautiful heroin effects set in nicely. Why I'd wanna potentially turn my favorite drug into a serious health hazard is beyond me. I don't need to be worrying about collapsed veins or if I just shot some wicked bacteria in my bloodstream right after my buzz kicks in. People are just undisciplined about drugs & the people who use drugs like heroin to self destruct & destroy their bodies are the people who give drugs a bad name.

I'm not even necessarily "anti-IVing" anything either. It's just that I don't see the benefit of it in most cases. Doing heroin through the nose or doing it through a vein doesn't magically make it two separate drugs or experiences, no matter how many people claim otherwise. Shooting it might be stronger because it's 100% bioavailability, but okay, now that you've jacked your tolerance up, what are you gonna do? Continue to keep shooting it? Doesn't sound like a bright idea. Some one with no tolerance to heroin is gonna get just as high anyway from whatever amount they get from snorting. And their tolerance won't be super sky high right away because they aren't getting 100% bioavailability. But it's all still the same drug & the subjective experiences can mirror each other & even be completely different for everyone.

Shit I've had tramadol highs that felt IDENTICAL to heroin highs, back when I had no tolerance to opioids at all. Itching/scratching, pure euphoria/inner peace/contentedness, nodding, urinary retention, etc..etc..

We should deter IV use on BL. Or if some one's determined to do it, guide them to do it safely & maybe even lecture them a little. Because I love drugs & it's possible to enjoy them without needles in most cases, if people were just patient & disciplined enough to follow that. I can't tell you how many people online I've argued with because they've told me "heroin causes heart problems"... when in reality heroin DOESN'T cause heart problems, but using needles can. People end up with endocarditis & shit from using needles & then it gets listed as a potential "side effect" or "risk" of heroin use, which is disingenuous. But of course the average doofus citizen arguing with me over heroin just googles the dangers & sees "heart problems" and immediately assumes heroin itself causes heart problems. So people's fixation with using needles causes a wide variety of problems that the masses mistake as problems from the drugs itself. A lot of complications can be avoided by just not picking up a needle in the first place. There should be a damn "other drugs" topic strictly for needles, because the needle itself is an addiction.

OK, so I'm one of those guys with a definite thing for that particular method of administration.
Of course I advise others to switch to a less risky way, but if (like me) they don't wanna do it any other way, I highlight the importance of meticulous hygiene, not re-using, not sharing, right technique etc. That's also HR.


PS and yeah I agree there should probably be a subsection on here to discuss needle fixation. There's a not insignificant percentage of users for whom the ritual itself provides satisfaction.
Mods -?

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

@DeathIndustrial88 , heroin was first sold by Bayer & Co. as a liquid oral formulation, and marketed as a pain reliever and cough suppressant, much the same way that tincture of opium had been used previously. Later it was heralded as a 'cure' for morphine addiction. It was not initially manufactured for IV use.

 

[4DQSAR]

PS and yeah I agree there should probably be a subsection on here to discuss needle fixation. There's a not insignificant percentage of users for whom the ritual itself provides satisfaction.
Mods -?

Yeah - It's a thing. I've seen people IVing cyclizine (a VERY bad idea) along with such things as cider or random pills found on the ground.

Needle fixation is every bit as addictive as the drug in the pin for some people.

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

Yeah - It's a thing. I've seen people IVing cyclizine (a VERY bad idea) along with such things as cider or random pills found on the ground.

Needle fixation is every bit as addictive as the drug in the pin for some people.

I've shot saline when didn't have anything. And on some occasions brandy.
(Don't do that. It burns like fuck.)

 

[4DQSAR]

I've shot saline when didn't have anything. And on some occasions brandy.
(Don't do that. It burns like fuck.)

Yep - you are not alone.

HR agencis have begun to use forms of 'deprogramming' in which a user will sit there and cook up a (fake) fix and stop just before actually injecting anything. Apparently it works quite well. Because as I'm sure you know, we know only a tiny proportion of people who are clients ever detox from opioids. But we hand out free foil, lighters and booklets on how to smoke (vape) heroin or as no user EVER termed it 'chasing the dragon'. NEVER heard that term used.

So tiny steps. Don't think 'I will stop' but maybe think 'I will at least give smoking H a try'. The reason being that when smoked by an expert, the bioavailability is well above 90% and I've known people who really have turned smoking H into an art form. I mean really impressive to watch.

Of course, you can't QUITE match IV for the rush which is why I mentioned Palfium (dextromoramide) being used to treat IV opioid users. Orally dextromoramide produces a rush everyone tells me is more or less identical to IV heroin. Of course, it IS supervised because a sure as eggs are eggs, if given a pill to take up, people will be compelled to at least trying to whack it up... which despite the claims of Janssen, actually makes the stuff x5 more potent i.e. x15 more potent than morphine. So Even just 2 pills consumed in that manner could result in an OD.

You have always struck me as a smart person and all I can do is to try to give you the best information I have. You know, don't use alone, have naloxone handy and if it all goes BADLY wrong - call 999 or whatever it is in your nation. Because having done it, paramadics would like to know how much of what someone has taken BUT they won't ask you if you took anything. They don't tell the police but if you are paranoid, stash whatever somewhere off your own property.

We aren't here to put you down - we are here to make sure you are here for a long, long time.