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Interesting PMA details

  • Thread starter Thread starter aj
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aj

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Could not think of a more appropriate forum so I posted it here.
http://www.health.org/nongovpubs/pma-dea/
"Contrary to initial newspaper reports from Australia, the likelihood that PMA is inadvertently produced during the manufacture of MDMA is highly unlikely."
and
"To date, four clandestine PMA laboratories have been seized worldwide: in Toronto, Canada, in 1973; in Worms, Germany, in 1991; and, in 1999, two laboratories in northern Germany, one located in Brandenburg."
In 1991 they found a PMA lab already ?
The recent ones were also in Germany...
If anyone found other interesting PMA info/details, pls. post it ;-)
aj
[This message has been edited by aj (edited 02 September 2001).]
 
PMA has been around a lot longer than MDMA (early 1970s). the only reason it's such a a big problem now is that the "Ecstasy" market is exploding worldwide and supply cant keep up with demand, and some more mecenary people use it as a short cut to profit.
 
and of course the recent death of an Australian lad due to PMA
 
The big question is:
Why do manufacturers do this ?
For instance, that Superman pill (on pilltest.com) contains only 3mg of PMA PLUS 50mg of MDMA.
Does that make sense ?
It is a pity that http://www.drogues.gouv.fr/fr/transversal/bandeau/alerte.htm
does not list quantities of PMA/PMMA.
The fact that 2 labs were seized in 1999 makes it possible that PMA is already a lot longer around in Europe but went completely unnoticed ?
When did the first PMA death occur in Europe ? I thought that was in 2000 ?
I also think it is rather strange that the DS DB only has 2 pills containing PMA.
http://www.dancesafe.org/labtesting/pill-display.php?keywords=&color_id=&chemical_ids=33&width_min=&width_max=&diameter_min=&diameter_max=&weight_min=&weight_max=&date_mailed_mo_mi n=&date_mailed_year_min=&date_mailed_mo_max=&date_mailed_year_max=&city=&state=&limit=25&reaction_id=
I wonder whether their lab tests for PMA/MDMA combinations. Maybe they were not aware of PMA until recently ?
Anyway, articles with little details (as above) may serve as a little piece in the PMA puzzle.
aj
 
Like I've mentioned before, the precursor to PMA is an easy to get and an almost perfect chemical to "cut" sassafrass with. It smells the same, it has nearly the same bp, it behaves the same during synthesis. Producing mdma/mda from the "cut" sassafrass would make a pmma/pma mix. Dea intelligence is probally too stupid to realize that...
 
You can only make so much at the same time. So someone might have sassafrass from a few different sources, maybe one which is questionable and contaminated, they'll produce multiple batches over a period of time until they have enough to make a good run at pressing the pills. It would be unusual to make a very large batch and then press the single batch, although possible. There's also no reason why the person pressing the pills can't get powder from different producers. That's why you have mixes of drugs that don't seem to "make sense", like a few mg of mdea with 100mg mdma , to whcih people seem to want to attribute to a poorly made batch because that's what makes the most sense to them.
I think the 3/50 would seem to indicate the person that pressed that pill didn't do it intentionaly with pma, and quite possibly that the person that made the powder didn't either...
The people that make this stuff are "loosely connected", via anon email, msg boards, etc. And there's lots of peopel who try hard but get no where. They end up with extra precursors. The oil will get traded around, and these are often guys looking to make an easy buck. Not coincidently the guys that have to give up are the ones looking to make the easiest buck. That's why I think the grey market for sassafrass is introducing pma-precurrsor cut oils.
 
3MG PMA 50MG MDMA, I believe that they are adding the PMA to make the MDMA seem strong. Why only 3MG maybe the chemists know the dangers and realize some people eat up to seven or ten pills in a sitting. Even at times double dropping throughout the night. As I have come to see PMA give many of the same symptoms as MDMA. Not all Chemists out there are unconcerned about who dies. By adding just a little PMA it may just bost up the effects of a weak tab. check this out....
http://www2.bluelight.ru/ubb/Forum13/HTML/003935.html?reload=0
 
3MG PMA 50MG MDMA, I believe that they are adding the PMA to make the MDMA seem strong. Why only 3MG maybe the chemists know the dangers and realize some people eat up to seven or ten pills in a sitting. Even at times double dropping throughout the night. As I have come to see PMA give many of the same symptoms as MDMA. Not all Chemists out there are unconcerned about who dies. By adding just a little PMA it may just bost up the effects of a weak tab. check this out....
http://www2.bluelight.ru/ubb/Forum13/HTML/003935.html?reload=0
 
C'mon, you know how subjective all that crap is?
If someone wants to do research they should either, make their own, or talk to people who have.
Too many idiots on pill reports talking their supposed PMA experiences. It's just one more thing to blame a bad or overdone mdma exp on.
 
There may be truth in it. PMA is apparently longer around than we suspect. First labs were raided in 1999 in Germany already.
Anyway, for the record.
The 3mgPMA/50mgMDMA Superman reaction was as follows;
Clear purple reaction but quite some bubbles with Marquis, not the mdma fizzing but bubbles that would not go away. With both tests (Marquis & Simon's) the sample would not react/dissolve (forgive my English) completely. Little particles did not produce a reaction.
I got hold of another one and will analyse that too. It would be interesting to know whether they hold the same amount of active substances.
aj
 
Sure the reports may be subjective. But if you compare the actual accounts from the folk in Australia, who know a bit more than we do about the experience, with the symptoms and effects of some of the reports you can see a striking similarity. I did not do this as a factual report, but just to give us some kind of idea on the effects this drug may have on someone. Until we get hard evidence and control based studies we can only use speculative accounts. To be honest, I would rather be open to that than be dumb in the dark....
 
speculative accounts are strongly biased. Do you recognize that? Drugs that are going to cause unpleasant symptons such as overheating and muscle spasms that might be confused with pma - higher then normal doses of opioid painkillers, caffiene, ephedrine, ritalin, dxm, likely others.
I'm pretty sure too that a feeling of being hot does not have to accompany overheating. I beleive someone can overheat and be shivering and feel cold the whole time.
aj, what does it doesn't matter how long those labs have been around? They account for a trivialy small precentage of labs seized. As does the number of pills containing pma.
Is it not obvious that the amount of pma people think is out there is much greater then what is actually out there? Why encourage that preception? I guess it doesn't hurt anybody, but it's just more misinformation to warp the next generation of drug users, non-users, and law makers.
 
"but it's just more misinformation to warp the next generation of drug users, non-users, and law makers"
The thing is that DIMS, http://www.eztest.com/index.php?id=lab-testing
, has issued a PMA warning for The Netherlands. DIMS does not issue any warnings unless it is REALLY necessary. It indicates that PMA should, at least in The Netherlands, be taken very serious. If it was incidental, they would not warn.
The same goes for Germany and France, and recently Belgium. Harm reduction organisations and testing facilities have already found so much PMA that warnings keep being issued. Apx. 50 people died this year alone, in Europe.
I do not think it is misinformation. I think everybody should be aware of the fact that any pill CAN (not WILL) currently contain PMA. This is exactly what a Dutch police officer spokesman told me.
I also think that someone who experienced a clean MDMA tab may be able to tell the difference between PMA and MDMA, especially if the tab contains PMA only. I am pretty sure I will be able to tell the difference (but I am not going to try it...)
So yes, these reports are definitely subjective but as said before, there may be truth in it.
When Johnboy started about PMA a year ago, I thought they were panicking overthere. I was wrong, PMA is a killer and everybody who takes Ecstasy (or takes something sold as Ecstasy) should be aware of the dangers involved, which at the moment is PMA.
aj
 
aj,
i may have an answer to your question about the small traces of PMA in pills.
i read somewhere about the different sources for acquiring saffrole. one way is to extract the safrole oil from castor oil. (not 100% certain if it was castor oil, but am pretty sure) There are about 3 differnt types of castor oil... brown, yellow (i think) and another one. each one has a different amount of saffrole oil in it. I think the brown castor oil was 90% saffrole oil.
apparently, the castor oil also contains the precursor to PMA, and if the saffrole oil wasn't extracted properly, then some of this precursor would remain.
now, isn't the synth for MDMA and PMA similar??? because if it is, then maybe the chemist in question didn't extract pure saffrole oil, and some of the PMA precursor was remaining, which would result in a small amount of PMA in the MDMA yeild.
i'm not too sure if this is possible, but just a theory that i was throwing around and thought you might be interested.
Maxi
 
Maxi u r right (except thats it camphor oil), and its pretty much what Quirks was saying too.
If u start with a sample of "purified" safrole (3,4-MethlyeneDioxy-allylbenzene) and it is contaminated with PMAs precursor (ParaMethoxy-allylbenzene) the same set of reactions work on each one.
You r turning the allylbenzene part into an AMPHETAMINE structure and leaving the other part as is - hence the difference in substances comes from the precursor, NOT the synthesis.
HOWEVER if u are making MDMA then u would be getting PMMA NOT PMA. (An MDA synthesis would give PMA)
If the chemical used to make the MDMA in the final reaction contains both those for XX-amphetamine and XX-methylamphetamine u would get all four possibilities.
A MDMA and PMA combination without the others, from the same reaction, cannot be explained.
Quirks theory for the pill with the 3mg of PMA in it is certainly a sound one and i would agree with it immediately except that it was PMA and not PMMA found with MDMA.
I find it hard to believe someone would delibrately add 3mg of PMA to each pill; thats is a USELESS amount.
But i guess its possible.
Anyone know if pilltest distinguishes PMA and PMMA??
[This message has been edited by Biscuit (edited 11 October 2001).]
 
"Anyone know if pilltest distinguishes PMA and PMMA??"
Definitely.
Adding PMA to MDMA:
We 'think' they do it deliberately.
Why ? Haven't got a clue.
The problem is that no one has enough data. If we analyse loads of pills, there might be some sort of 'pattern' that makes sense.
aj
 
biscuit has a very good point. it's impossible to make MDMA and PMA at the same time; you'd make MDMA and PMMA. the distinction does appear to be made.
the only possibility is that a PMA batch was mixed in with 50 or so MDMA batches and pressed. this was probably not intentional. i guess the pressing is being done by different people...
there's no why here; this was accidental. it must have been.
 
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