Interactions between Salvia and classical psychedelics

[RhythmSpring]

I have made a few observations. One is that with classical psychedelics, the afterglow seems inherently tied up with tolerance, lasting for usually about a week after the trip. One way to determine how much tolerance you have from a previous trip is to ask yourself how much afterglow you are still feeling from it.

Second, I've discovered, at least for myself, that taking a kappa-opioid agonist, such as Salvia or Iboga, in the wake/afterglow of a tryptamine experience, is a recipe for a negative experience. One that will leave you feeling shitty. Real shitty.

On the other hand, taking a tryptamine or phenethylamine in the wake of a kappa opioid agonist experience, is a recipe for an immensely positive experience, with the best afterglow ever.

In my experience this is a repeatable experiment. I don't know what is happening neurochemically, but psychospiritually, I think it has to do with the fact that the afterglow involves reintegrating psychedelic openness into the ego, which Salvia and Iboga wantonly dismantle (in a more aggressive way than tryps/phens). On the other hand, after Salvia, one is left pretty open and receptive, with ones sense of identity not fully determined. This is an ideal mental space for work with tryps/phens.

Does anyone else share this observation? I mean, I've noticed that people who hate Salvia the most are people who tryp often...

 

[JackARoe]

That is a large observation Rhythm. It will be interesting if anyone can chime in with any similar observations. Not too many people seem to like Salvia. I do and have utilized it since 1999. I do know the afterglow leaves me with a postive experience for a few days. I feel more practical and less emotional about things that need less emotion. Very healing stuff. But I have never mixed it with a psychedelic. I am kind of a purist like that in that if I spend an evening with a substance I try and pay full attention to that one substance (with the exception of adding in cannabis). But I am very interested in reading about people's combinations.

I do know the afterglow of Salvia reduces very light opiate wd to almost nothing for a few hours. That is not surprising even though the kappa receptor isn't the main activator of opiate effects. However I can also tell when morphine hits the kappa as well even if it is lightly. The "whispering in the ears" and feeling like I was just talking to someone coming out of a morphine nod that is similar to the voices on Salvia. Sort of dreamlike.

There seems to be a lot that can be learned from activating different receptors and the observation you had about taking one before the other and achieving almost opposite effects is very interesting. I would not doubt that there is a neurochemical as well as psychospiritual response when they are layered differently.

Many years ago on a different board (about poppies) I remember starting a post on how Salvia seemed to help with OCD. I am not a sufferer but I think everybody has different degrees of OCD. Simple things like always taking the second cigarette out of a pack before the first for superstitious or habitual reasons. So the different levels of OCD can vary to severe or just a little "habit". But I noticed in a Salvia afterglow none of those little habits make practical sense and are easy to overide. Days later the habits come back.

I really do think Salvia will prove valuable for quite a few mental health issues if studied properly. Anyway, good post. I spent the last few days reading the methoxetamine threads and decided Salvia will be the only dissociative (sort of) that I am willing to touch these days. (Those are very scary threads if read with a clear head) I've had ketamine about 15 times 20 years ago and only the first 5 experiences were valuable. I know ketamine is being studied a little bit. But this line of observation with Salvia needs to be explored the same way.

 

[.:Holy::Toast:.]

I have heard of many people having extremely positive immersive experiences when combining salvia and LSD or mushrooms, I have yet to try it but it would definitely be neat

 

[RhythmSpring]

... I do know the afterglow leaves me with a postive experience for a few days. I feel more practical and less emotional about things that need less emotion. Very healing stuff. ...
Many years ago on a different board (about poppies) I remember starting a post on how Salvia seemed to help with OCD. I am not a sufferer but I think everybody has different degrees of OCD. ... I noticed in a Salvia afterglow none of those little habits make practical sense and are easy to overide. Days later the habits come back.

I really do think Salvia will prove valuable for quite a few mental health issues if studied properly. Anyway, good post. I spent the last few days reading the methoxetamine threads and decided Salvia will be the only dissociative (sort of) that I am willing to touch these days. (Those are very scary threads if read with a clear head) ...

^ Exactly. JackARoe, our observations on Salvia very much line up. I used to be a purist in dealing with Salvia, and in some ways I wish I had never ventured from that purism. I still don't do Salvia on any other substance, but doing it *after* one (which is what this thread is about, .:Holy::Toast:.) is something I've done, now with regret.

I agree wholeheartedly that Salvia can be do wonders for OCD-like behavior with its calm, dispassionate afterglow. When doing other psychedelics afterwards, I felt that the Salvia was the roots of the experience, and the mushrooms/mescaline/whatever was the branches and leaves of the experience. Opposing effects, but complimentary if done right.

I feel like a "beer before liquor..." kind of aphorism is called for here.

 

[DubNaut]

I can't comment on classical psychs. But have used with various stims as well as 5-meo-dalt.
I stayed away from salvia for years before i was able to have the respect to use it.

Now I prefer a healthy hit before laying into a dissociative hole, whether ketamine, mxe or various other analogues.

 

[J_has_L]

Ive only done it a few times, but ive never had any sort of positive experience on salvia. I Don't really care for the stuff honestly. Id rather just trip the other substance without even messing with the salvia.