• H&R Moderators: streaM Freak

Insomnia! *MEGA-thread*

I've not noticed any negative effects from Valerian, but obviously everyone is different.

You should try EFT(emotional freedom technique, google it, theres tons of info). I know I suggest this on practically every thread, but it works for so many things.

Also how much exercise do you get? You should work out HARD every morning if you don't already.
Normally I run/walk three miles a morning, and do around 3 hrs of exercise at work (gymnastics) so I’m OK with the exercise I think. I just asked on the Valerian root because you mentioned not taking it long term?

I’ll google EFT, haven’t heard of it.

Heuristic- On the Seroquel I just take it when I’m done with my work for the evening and wait for it to kick it, so I might be on BL, I might be writing, it depends. But I’m still stimulated mentally, so sometimes it takes longer to kick in, and that might have something to do with it taking longer I think.

If I’m trying to fall asleep naturally, I usually read (that tends to make me tired if I’m in bed) and then force myself to lie down and sleep. I know that a lot of it is anxiety, which is why the kpins work so well. I don’t like lying and just lying down, my mind starts running and I get super anxious, so I’ll avoid it (part of why the Seroquel works so well, it just knocks me out so there is no lying down). But there have been many nights where I’ve decided, fuck it I’m just going to try and sleep, and lain there for 8-9 hours and not slept.

My therapist always tells me I have horrible sleep hygiene, which is true. But the problem is that I can’t just not take anything for days on end and hope that things will start to become normal—I won’t be a functioning human being. So I don’t know how the best way to re-train myself for sleep would be. Right now it seems like switching to a more natural sleep aid, and less intense, (from what sunyatas saying Melatonin again) and trying some exercises might be the best way?

sunyata- its weird, when I come off meth I can usually sleep really well for a couple days, and then I have horrible insomnia. You’d think it would be the opposite…

I wish there was an anxiety med I could take, besides these antidepresents that my psychs always claim affect anxiety and haven’t, from my experience anyway (I’ve been on Zoloft, Celexa, LexaPro, Prozax, Effexor, and Cymbalta) benzos are all that I’ve found helps. I don’t particularly enjoy benzos and just use the kpins for my anxiety attacks but they help wonders with sleep. But I agree with you and both my psych, I don’t want to become habitual with them.

Right now I’m not off the meth so that’s partly why my sleep cycle is so fucked up. I know until then becoming even slightly normal with sleep is a ridiculous hope. But I hope I will be able to get my shit together and get clean soon, so after that happens… 8)
 
But the problem is that I can’t just not take anything for days on end and hope that things will start to become normal
The problem is you believing this. You will fall asleep before you die. Each time you do something, you reinforce that action. Like taking sleeping meds since you were 8. Your doctor sounds like a piece of shit.

I sleep far less than the average person, but I can only imagine what it's like not even being able to sleep and crying of exhaustion because of it. I had severe insomnia at ages 13-15 because my mind never shut the fuck up. Things like melatonin never worked, because I was just too stimulated. Anxiousness and depression to the extreme 24/7. I think with things like melatonin and other 'natural' sleeping aids, you have to actually want to sleep. I had some wierd complex about not ever sleeping. I eventually go that under control, and learned to direct my excessive thoughts through lots of obnoxious practice and effort.

Good luck mia.
 
I haven't been on sleeping meds since I was eight-- I started having trouble with insomnia around that age. Then I started going to "sleep therapy" but, mostly my parents were annoyed I was always awake and so in middle school (11 or 12) I started sleep meds. I've had a lot of different doctors since then, the one I have now I've only had since October.

I know that I would eventually fall asleep, but the problem is being so unregulated I don't go to work, hence no $ hence I'm in big trouble.

What do you do to get your thoughts under control?
 
I just asked on the Valerian root because you mentioned not taking it long term?

Ah okay, well the thing is with herbs, is that (in most cases) your body sorta gets used to them after awhile. So if you take it every single day it doesn't have the same effect. I take it a few times a week when I want to sleep really deep and have cool dreams. :)
 
Mia-

I had chronic insomnia off and on since around age 6. I once went 7 consecutive nights without sleep, despite taking massive amounts of melatonin, diphenhydramine, alprazolam, etc. No help.

Have you looked into acupuncture? It is the one thing that ever worked for me, and it worked INCREDIBLY. It took about 3 sessions over a two-week period, and only the occasional "tweak session" since then. I went into acupuncture a total skeptic, but I'd tried everything else, and was desperate. I'm so glad I did, it helped me not only with my insomnia, but with a host of other ailments as well: mild anxiety/depression, addiction issues, even a funny pain in one of my back muscles that had baffled "western" doctors, chiropractors, etc.

Please look into acupuncture. It is a truly amazing therapy for so many things, and the main thing it helped me with was long-term insomnia. 5000 years of Chinese medicine can't be all wrong. ;)

And yes; cutting out the meth might help, too. ;) <3
 
Okay... well a few things.

First, stop using the internet before going to sleep. Turn off the computer an hour or so before you want to sleep.

Second, when you get in bed the first time, just focus on how comfortable the bed is. Don't worry about falling asleep. If you don't, you'll be a little tired the next day, that's all. That's it. Just a little tired. So you're focusing on how comfortable the bed is, and you're daydreaming about something pleasant and interesting, having a little fantasy, etc. If you don't fall asleep within half an hour or so, get out of bed, and sit down somewhere with a book, and read for a little while. Then just go back and repeat.

Third, get up, no matter what, at about the same time. I don't care if you're tired. Get out of bed, shower, get dressed, and go outside.

Fourth, yeah, you can't keep doing meth. That's going to have to stop.

Fifth, you can look for work and so forth even while you're tired. You can do work while you're tired.

Sixth, and finally, your body remembers how to fall asleep. It does it on a daily basis. You're worried about a lot of things, which may make it more difficult to fall asleep. I doubt all the problems can be solved in the space of a day. So problem-solve, figure out what you can accomplish today, accomplish it, and realize that you'll do what you can tomorrow.
 
Have you tried doing EFT on it? Actually, maybe you have a misconception of sleep. Consider this- sleep isn't something you DO, it's something that DOES YOU. You do nothing; it takes over on its own.

Related to the EFT- don't hate your insomnia. Perhaps it's there for a reason (not that it's ultimately a good thing, but it's something to be accepted...)
 
^interesting, although I'm yet to come up with one good thing it's brought me..

junctionalfunkie- interesting. I know nothing about acupuncture... is it expensive? :\

heuristic- I think that's the best response I've ever gotten to my meth addiciton :D saving that.

I always hear the opposite, that doing work keep your awake and stops your body from naturally becoming tired?
 
^Do you have a comfortable bed? Does it always have clean sheets, no clutter on it or around it, and your mattress and pillows are supporting your body well?

I posted about this a lot of times in other sleep threads. My bed is SO important....when I had insomnia before (I've had it on and off since I was a teen) I have noticed some consistent things about my sleeping habits in relation to my bed. (might sound kooky to some, but hey, it works for me lol.)

1. Everything white, I cannot sleep on colored sheets. I make sure to change them every two weeks.
2. Same goes with what Im wearing. I cannot ever EVER fall asleep wearing clothes I have worn outside , or dark shirts. I always wear a clean white shirt and just underwear or my boxers to sleep. I have never had a good sleep wearing dark shirts...its odd, but true.
3. I make sure there is nothing on my bed, no books, no nothing...it just has to be me on top of it. Again , I have noticed MANY times before that whenever I would accidentally leave a book or magazine on my bed, I had very disturbed , light sleep.
4. Maybe you can put a basin of water with lots of sea salt on a corner of your room to suck up the negative energy. Do you smoke in your room? What else do you do in your room?


Worth a try, and its literally taken me YEARS to find the environment conducive to the most restful sleep.
 
No, work definitely won't stop you from becoming tired. It will actually help you sleep better, since you'll have the sense of having accomplished something during the day, and you'll be more tired by the end of it.

Keep in mind that falling asleep naturally isn't like falling asleep while on ambien, or, I imagine, seroquel. You won't get incredibly drowsy and relaxed beforehand. You might even feel, getting into bed, that you're still "too awake" to sleep. But you're not "too awake," in all likelihood (the meth complicates things obviously). Your brain will start shifting its state from an awake-state to a sleep-state, in which certain neural activity changes, certain functions are disabled so that you don't hurt yourself as you sleep, etc., as you lie in bed and transition. Sometimes just focusing on being comfortable, closing your eyes, and letting your mind wander pleasantly, day-dreaming, helps that transition take place.

I don't want to pry, but do you want to quit the meth? I know that doing so is difficult, but I also know that those who have done so experience a better quality of life, and, I'd imagine, sleep better at night.
 
I've moved a LOT and lived in many different beds ;) and been homeless and sleeping in a different place every other night, so I'm pretty flexible when it comes to beds. My room has been a complete mess the last week though from moving back in here so there's been shit everywhere, but it's super clean/organzied now, it's been a bit easier to go to bed not feeling like there's so much I need to do around me.

Heuristic- I want to get off the meth. Eventually. It's been more than 6 yrs of abusing meth/coke so it's going to be a long battle to get off of it. Right now I don't feel strong enough to do it.
I've been doing work before I get to bed and it's made things a bit easier, but I've realized sometimes I just have to lie down and force myself to try and sleep even if I'm not tired. And try and get on a more regular wake up/going to bed schedule. I've been waking around the same time everyday and it's made going to bed at a more reasonable hour easier.
 
me too mia
lately ive decided just to live with it
tina's the gift that keeps on giving i guess
 
Mia, it sounds like it would be tough, but lots of other people have done it. Moving towards quitting might be a little anxiety-provoking at first; why not make out a plan, with a series of specific steps, for how someone in your situation might quit? I'm not talking about doing this on your own, but making a plan or list consisting literally of what numbers to call for help, what centers would be useful, etc. Whether you want to act on it is then a further decision for you to make. This way, though, you'd at least have the information in front of you should you opt to take the next step.

Hang in there.
 
One thing they taught us in old Bio 350 was that sleep medications are the number one cause of insomnia in the USA.

I wish I hadn't sold the book back, but if you're still in school go to the book store, look for the biology of brain and behavior book, and check out the index for pages on insomnia. It'll probably take about 5 minutes once you're there.

I'm almost absolutely certain that it said sleep medicines, everything from OTC pills to ambien, can tweak your sleep equilibrium for a maximum of three months after taking them regularly. (The maximum date is all that I'm unsure of). The problem with sleep medications is that they're only approved for isolated use, like no more than one day in a row. When people use something to make them go to sleep even two days in a row, they start to become dependent on them, and will show reduced REM and stage 4 sleep if they don't take pills for 2-3 days afterwards. That three month maximum date would only be for someone who took shit every night for a long time, though.

But if it is your only option, what can you do, right?

One thing you could try would be having a sleep study done, I don't know how much they cost though. Or go for the accupuncture. I bet that is cheaper.
 
^ some meds, Lunesta and Ambien CR I believe, are approved for long-term use, however, no?

That 3-month tweak must be for a very small percentage of people. Is there anything available online about that? Maybe in pubmed?

I've only used sleep medication sporadically, but on my first nights without use I recall---and who knows whether this actually reflects the amount of REM sleep I got---having more vivid and frequent dreams.
 
One thing they taught us in old Bio 350 was that sleep medications are the number one cause of insomnia in the USA.

I wish I hadn't sold the book back, but if you're still in school go to the book store, look for the biology of brain and behavior book, and check out the index for pages on insomnia. It'll probably take about 5 minutes once you're there.

I'm almost absolutely certain that it said sleep medicines, everything from OTC pills to ambien, can tweak your sleep equilibrium for a maximum of three months after taking them regularly. (The maximum date is all that I'm unsure of). The problem with sleep medications is that they're only approved for isolated use, like no more than one day in a row. When people use something to make them go to sleep even two days in a row, they start to become dependent on them, and will show reduced REM and stage 4 sleep if they don't take pills for 2-3 days afterwards. That three month maximum date would only be for someone who took shit every night for a long time, though.

Man....this seems to be so true (from my experiences...)
I was very sick last weekend, terrible cold, and I took a shitload of antihistamines (I took them Thursday, Friday, Saturday) I slept very well on Thurday/Friday but by Saturday night I was wide awake, like I was literally NOT able to sleep at all despite having taken so much cold medicine. Same old cycle again....I didnt sleep very well on Sunday either (very light....havent taken any meds since Saturday) and by Monday night I was sleeping a bit better, but not my normal, restful, deep sleep.

This always, always happens everytime I take anything to induce sleepiness, like clockwork.

I hope I sleep well tonight :( Although knowing me, it will take me a week to go back to deep sleeping....Yeah...anything used to aid sleep IME always tends to backfire just a couple of days after , and I hate nothing more than not being able to sleep well.
 
Mia, a number of people have used very soft soothing music using earplugs, with a tape that rewinds itself over and over. It sooths and appeals to the deeper part of your self and meditates you to sleep. Every person who I know who has tried this has worked for them, just try it!
 
Specific soft music that sooths you and works subliminally is a great help for insomnia.
There are products ready made to work but you can choose any soothing music from certain stores, just go and see what suits you best, and work it on a self rewinding cd or tape!

Also, a blender mix or banana and milk, and avoid coffees and cafeine in any other drinks.
Below is a combination of herbs you may take or try alone and in combination. Also some information on brain waves and certain music to assist your sleep.

Try to go for cycling or a run or some form of exercise before you are ready to sleep.

Don't sit on the same position if you can't go back to sleep, whalk around for a bit until you tire or change the usual place of sleep, go on the floor, or the couch etc.

I hope any of this helps you!


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What Brainwave Entrainment Is

Brainwave entrainment means that a particular beat or rhythm will guide your brain's electrical pulses, which are called brainwaves, into a new rhythm. Your brain, when it "hears" the new beat will follow it and begin to pulse at the same rate.

When brainwave entrainment is used to cure insomnia the brainwaves we want to guide you into are the waves of sleep. When you are sleeping your brainwaves slow right down. The brainwave entrainment audio you are listening to will guide your brainwaves into the rhythm of sleep. When this happens you will fall asleep.

brainwave patterns
This Is What Happens When You Sleep

As you most likely know your brain uses electrical signals to communicate with all the systems in your body. The rate of these electrical pulses, or brainwaves, can be measured using an EEG (electroencephalograph) machine. The pulses vary in their rhythm depending on what you are doing.

When we are alert and busy the activity in our brains is fast and the waves are closer together. When we are relaxed the wave pattern is much slower. As we begin to go to sleep, the brain waves become slower still.

If you can't sleep when you go to bed your brain waves are most likely not slowing down. If you have a busy mind and can't stop thinking, then you are not relaxing. Your brain waves will just keep on going fast like the beta waves shown above.

But what you want is for them to slow down like the alpha waves. Brainwave entrainment can slow them for you automatically just by listening. Relaxation is necessary for sleep. Without that relaxation and slowing down of the brainwaves sleep will not come.

When your brainwaves slow down, your heart rate, blood pressure, body temperature, breathing and muscle tension all relax too. As you listen you become very deeply relaxed and will fall asleep. This process is used in the 'Go To Sleep' CD and the 'Relax into Sleep' CD to send you to sleep.

The idea is to get the brain waves to slow right down to alpha and then slower still to theta and then delta waves. As this happens you drift gently into a natural sleep.

If you would like to know more about brainwave entrainment just click here- it will open in a new window. Learn More About Brainwave Entrainment

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It's the blend of ingredients that assists night sleep

Calcium - sleeplessness has been associated with calcium for centuries. People who don't have enough calcium have two sleep-related problems. First, they have great difficulty falling asleep. In most cases this occurs because low tissue calcium produces irritability. They're just too upset to be able to fall asleep. Second, people with low calcium levels are plagued with muscle cramps at night. These painful cramps occur even without any real exertion during the day. A calcium to magnesium imbalance causes these muscles to remain in a constant state of contraction.

Chamomile - Chamomile flowers are used in alternative medicine as an anodyne, anti-inflammatory, antispasmodic, nervine, stomachic, tonic, vasodilatory. The herb has pronounced anti-inflammatory activity, promotes wound healing, combats certain bacteria on the skin, and has a mild tranquilizing effect. Chamomile has been known to treat anxiety and sleeplessness.

Jujube -The jujube originated in China where they have been cultivated for more than 4,000 years. Jujube is widely used in Chinese traditional medicine for the treatment of sleeplessness and anxiety; it relieves nervous tension and apprehension. Also, compounds in jujube prevent damage to nerve cells.

Magnesium - Magnesium supplements may be helpful for relieving restless leg syndrome (RLS) and for treating sleeplessness. Magnesium is a mineral that is needed by every cell of the body. Magnesium is needed for bone, protein, and fatty acid formation, making new cells, activating B vitamins, relaxing muscles, clotting blood, and forming ATP - the muscle's energy source. Melatonin also regulates the heart by maintaining normal heart rhythm; converts blood sugar into energy; and promotes deep sleep.

Melatonin - Melatonin is a hormone made by a part of the brain called the pineal (say: "pin-ee-all") gland. Melatonin may help our bodies know when it's time to go to sleep and when it's time to wake up. Melatonin deficiency may cause sleep disorders, immune deficiency conditions, and depression. Melatonin has been found to alleviate sleep disorders and boost the immune system.

Niacin - Niacin is a member of the Vitamin B-complex, otherwise known as Vitamin B3. Like most of the B-vitamins, niacin is primarily required for energy metabolism, specifically converting carbohydrates into energy. Other than energy metabolism, proper intake of niacin keeps the skin healthy. It can also be used therapeutically to control cholesterol levels, maintain proper circulation, act as an anti-inflammatory to ease arthritis symptoms, balance blood sugar levels for the prevention of diabetes, and finally, it can be used to stimulate a healthy nervous system, thus easing symptoms of depression, anxiety and sleeplessness. (For people who can't take Niacin please order Great Night Sleep 2™, it contains zero niacin.)

Passion Flower - Passion Flower is the herb of choice for treating intransigent sleeplessness. Passion Flower is a naturally grown medicinal herb, approved by the German Commission E in the treatment of sleeplessness and nervousness. It is also used as a sedative in nervous disorders (including gastrointestinal complaints of nervous origin), difficulties in sleeping, and anxiety or restlessness. The sedative effect of Passion flower has made it popular for treating a variety of ailments, including nervousness and sleeplessness. Research had indicated that passion flower has a complex activity on the central nervous system (CNS), which is responsible for its overall tranquilizing effects. Also, it apparently has an antispasmodic effect on smooth muscles within the body, including the digestive system, promoting digestion.

Valerian - Valerian, a member of the Valerianaceae family, is a perennial plant native to Europe and Asia and naturalized in North America. Used for thousands of years as a folk remedy, tranquilizer, and sedative for disorders such as restlessness, anxiety, and sleeplessness; scientifically proven to be a safe and effective anti-anxiety agent and sedative. Valerian is a common ingredient which is used as a mild sedative and sleep aid for nervous tension and sleeplessness. Many chemical constituents of valerian have been identified, but it is not known which may be responsible for its sleep-promoting effects. It is likely that there is no single active compound and that valerian's effects result from multiple constituents acting independently or synergistically.
 
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Personally, melatonin has always given me really vivid dreams or nightmares. I almost always woke up the next day feeling groggy or hungover. I don't think everyone experiences those effects, but from what I've read it is common. I like reading a boring book before going to bed. Also, hot herbal tea-doesn't matter which one- is always relaxing. Good luck
 
OP, has the issue been resolved?

Yes, tea is bad for sleep (unless it is decaffeinated). A tisane (more confusingly called "herbal tea") that I find relaxing is rooibos. As for mint, I never noticed it being either stimulating or relaxing, but it tastes good. :)

I also suggest trying brainwave entrainment sounds as mentioned above. Ionno what OS you use on your computer, but with some searching on the Web you should be able to find some software for it. There are also some premade sound files available if you look.

I almost always woke up the next day feeling groggy or hungover. I don't think everyone experiences those effects, but from what I've read it is common. I like reading a boring book before going to bed. Also, hot herbal tea-doesn't matter which one- is always relaxing. Good luck

This reliably happens (to me) when after taking melatonin but not getting enough sleep.
 
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