i injected both my substrate jars at the same time but only 1 turned white (colonized), the other seemed to have just stayed the same, should I discard it and move on to casing the colonized jar and dump bulk substrate on it or should I include the other one as well, since the bulk substrate might help "boost" it?
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innoculated both jars, but only one became colonized, is the other no good?
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trippin_titties
Bluelighter
did you innoculate the second jar close to the edge or in the centre?
trippin_titties
Bluelighter
If you innoculated the second jar in the cente there could be mycillium on the inside you just can't see it..
Just wait a little longer and see who wins the war. By war I mean the colonization by your inoculation versus the colonization of possible contaminations. If there is absolutely nothing happening in there I would start to wonder if you inoculated correctly... if you have sufficient inoculant maybe you could add extra spores... you never know: if you worked clean enough maybe there is nothing in there to 'win the war' so just send extra soldiers...
i would just wait it out a bit more. jars are really different from one another. i had 3 jars at a time: one was fully white, the other had a few mycellium spehres inside, the other was empty. in the end, they all came to fruition, and no problems were had, but the last jar was fruited... 5-6 weeks after the first one.
greenmeanies
Bluelighter
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one thing that you MUST NOT do is open the uncolonized jar. THat will quickly turn it into a contaminated love-fest and destroy all your hard work.
How long has it been? I'd give them a minimum of two weeks preferably a month or more, but I throw away contaminated jars. The center could be colonizing. It wouldn't be a bad idea to separate them though. Give it some time. And make a shroomery profile.
but the thing is the colonized jar might get "over colonized" if I wait for the other jar to turn white as well. should I go ahead with the colonized jar and put it in a chamber and dump bulk substrate on top of it then add the other jar later when it turns white?
another thing, out of 8 of my "grow bags" only one is turning white, the others seem like there's nothing happening just yet. I innoculated all just about the same time and procedure.
did you wait for all 3 to turn white before you chambered them and bulk substrated them? did you fruit them each separately?
another thing, out of 8 of my "grow bags" only one is turning white, the others seem like there's nothing happening just yet. I innoculated all just about the same time and procedure.
did you wait for all 3 to turn white before you chambered them and bulk substrated them? did you fruit them each separately?
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For what reason - other than general convenience - would you want to fruit them at the same time? Just make sure to write stuff down to keep track of what is what and how long it's been etc.
And I agree don't open any (birthing) before fruiting, if you re-inoculate it is the same as initial inoculation: indeed keep it closed and clean and use specially designated injection sites. In the future I would not inoculate the center but rather 4 spots on the outer side so that you can see what's happening. Spread 1 ml of a normal spore syringe over 4 places.
Colonization time can differ more and more if the myc misses it's chance and the substrate dries out a bit and condenses at another place. Unevenness of moisture can cause extra hold-up. Without enough water it will just grow slower but wet patches and water droplets etc will usually actually be actively avoided.
And I agree don't open any (birthing) before fruiting, if you re-inoculate it is the same as initial inoculation: indeed keep it closed and clean and use specially designated injection sites. In the future I would not inoculate the center but rather 4 spots on the outer side so that you can see what's happening. Spread 1 ml of a normal spore syringe over 4 places.
Colonization time can differ more and more if the myc misses it's chance and the substrate dries out a bit and condenses at another place. Unevenness of moisture can cause extra hold-up. Without enough water it will just grow slower but wet patches and water droplets etc will usually actually be actively avoided.
ok good point. I'm not sure if my heat in my apartment (set at 75 degrees) might have caused the other jar (the one that didn't turn white) to look dry. I hope this has nothing to do with it. It's not anywhere near heat, it's hidden in the dark, under my kitchen cabinet.
the reason why I wanted to fruit them at the same time was convenience and because I only have one 10-pound bag of bulk substrate and since I think I'm going to need to use all of this to fruit the colonized jar, I didn't think I could re-use this again to fruit the other jar. Can I? Wouldn't the bulk substrate be contaminated after I just fruited the first jar with it and picked the fruits? Can bulk substrates be used over and over again or it depends?
the reason why I wanted to fruit them at the same time was convenience and because I only have one 10-pound bag of bulk substrate and since I think I'm going to need to use all of this to fruit the colonized jar, I didn't think I could re-use this again to fruit the other jar. Can I? Wouldn't the bulk substrate be contaminated after I just fruited the first jar with it and picked the fruits? Can bulk substrates be used over and over again or it depends?
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Sounds fine even if a bit on the hot side for the colonization stage - but still within recommended parameters. Everything is probably ok with the dryness since the other jar did quite well, but who knows. Try to check by just looking at it. Maybe you didn't add enough water in the first place. Not sure.
the reason why I wanted to fruit them at the same time was convenience and because I only have one 10-pound bag of bulk substrate and since I think I'm going to need to use all of this to fruit the colonized jar, I didn't think I could re-use this again to fruit the other jar. Can I? Wouldn't the bulk substrate be contaminated after I just fruited the first jar with it and picked the fruits? Can bulk substrates be used over and over again or it depends?[/QUOTE]
You sound confused, but maybe it's me.
First of all is this a pre-sterilized bag sold that way? I take it it doesn't have an inoculation site so what do you plan on doing, crumbling your jar into it then mixing and closing the bag again? I don't know what is wise to do or not unless I get a good picture of what you're doing. Let me read back in this thread.
I don't know how big your jars are but it sounds like way too much bulk substrate to colonize with a jar. Re-using bulk substrate? Well no either you succeed in colonizing it or you don't and it contaminates before that. With a jar - like I was saying - it is possible that just nothing really happens for a length of time. This can be if you worked clean so there is no contamination whatsoever, but you also did something wrong with inoculating like using too little spore suspension. In that case add more spores as soon as possible before it contaminates.
With bulk substrate the chance is really quite low that you won't get it contaminated if it won't colonize - especially 10 pounds! I am really wondering what kind of substrate you are talking about here and how you planned on making it sterile and keeping it sterile.
the size of my substrate jar is about the size of a can of soda. I injected it with 2 ml of spore as required by who sold me the substrate jars. The jar that is already white/colonized, I am trying to put this "cake" inside a chamber (Hydroshroom) and dump bulk substrate on top of it, about 10 pounds (I guess I could use 5 pounds less? but hopefully the more bulk susbtrate I use, the more it'll fruit?). The bulk substrate I have is pasteurized, ready to be used. I bought it from Sublicious Compost. From what I know, I'm supposed to remove by hand (with gloves and sterile environment) the colonized substrate (aka "cake") out of the jar and place it in a chamber for fruiting. I was going to let it sit on top of hydrotons in a chamber (this came with my Hydroshroom kit), but I think dumping the bulk substrate on top of the colonized substrate (aka "cake") is better off?
You sound confused, but maybe it's me.
First of all is this a pre-sterilized bag sold that way? I take it it doesn't have an inoculation site so what do you plan on doing, crumbling your jar into it then mixing and closing the bag again? I don't know what is wise to do or not unless I get a good picture of what you're doing. Let me read back in this thread.
I don't know how big your jars are but it sounds like way too much bulk substrate to colonize with a jar. Re-using bulk substrate? Well no either you succeed in colonizing it or you don't and it contaminates before that. With a jar - like I was saying - it is possible that just nothing really happens for a length of time. This can be if you worked clean so there is no contamination whatsoever, but you also did something wrong with inoculating like using too little spore suspension. In that case add more spores as soon as possible before it contaminates.
With bulk substrate the chance is really quite low that you won't get it contaminated if it won't colonize - especially 10 pounds! I am really wondering what kind of substrate you are talking about here and how you planned on making it sterile and keeping it sterile.[/QUOTE]
You sound confused, but maybe it's me.
First of all is this a pre-sterilized bag sold that way? I take it it doesn't have an inoculation site so what do you plan on doing, crumbling your jar into it then mixing and closing the bag again? I don't know what is wise to do or not unless I get a good picture of what you're doing. Let me read back in this thread.
I don't know how big your jars are but it sounds like way too much bulk substrate to colonize with a jar. Re-using bulk substrate? Well no either you succeed in colonizing it or you don't and it contaminates before that. With a jar - like I was saying - it is possible that just nothing really happens for a length of time. This can be if you worked clean so there is no contamination whatsoever, but you also did something wrong with inoculating like using too little spore suspension. In that case add more spores as soon as possible before it contaminates.
With bulk substrate the chance is really quite low that you won't get it contaminated if it won't colonize - especially 10 pounds! I am really wondering what kind of substrate you are talking about here and how you planned on making it sterile and keeping it sterile.[/QUOTE]
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I would not dump bulk substrate on top of cakes, that way it takes relatively the most time for the mycelium to colonize the bulk substrate and the more time passes the bigger the risk of contamination in the substrate. Does the hydroshroom chamber have a sterilized/filtered ventilation system or is it possible for contaminants to get in through the air flow? I guess if the substrate is really sterile and you absolutely minimize exposure and your fruiting chamber is filtered then you could be well protected from contamination. But still, it is not the most effective thing you can do - also, I assume your substrate is somewhat fluffy and porous to gas exchange but dumping 10 pounds on a cake might smother it.
Commonly used methods to spawn to bulk involve crumbling the cake into little pieces, I would not make the chunks smaller than like an inch in diameter. You can either use jars again for colonization of the bulk, or you could mix the mycelium pieces throughout the substrate in the bag it came in. With the jars the mixing of mycelium bits throughout the substrate remains the same, I guess you don't have that many reasons to choose jars over just using the plastic bag, though one argument that is always valid is that with jars you have potential contamination isolated in and limited to the jar.
So crumbling and mixing definitely has it advantages but one of the major things to realize is that you will have to work as clean as possible so that no contaminants are mixed into the substrate together with your spawn.
If you crumble a cake, it will not grow for maybe like 3 days because it messes up the coherence of the mycelium. It needs a little time to readjust and consolidate before growing/colonizing again. But when it does, it should go way faster than when dumping a pile of substrate onto an intact cake because it can colonize starting from numerous spots and cover more ground in less time.
You can use the fruiting chamber to store the colonizing substrate like you were basically already planning - especially if the chamber gets filtered air. If you use the bag, remember that it needs to breathe -I have used filter bags in the past that have a special patch for air exchange. Obviously be careful with the opening in the bag for air exchange and minimize exposure to outside elements.
Ah I see that the substrate from Sublicious is in fact specifically meant to use for things like mushroom growing, that's good.
About the amount of substrate: my initial reaction was that 10 pounds is way too much but actually it could be okay. The weight of the spawn/colonized substrate you mix in should be no less than 10% of the weight of bulk substrate used. I'm not really sure if one cake amounts to 1 pound (I would guess so) but you can adjust the amount of bulk substrate used accordingly if it falls short.
let's see, so I crumble the colonized cake and mix them with the bulk substrate so it spreads out evenly? seems like a better idea compared to my original idea which was to let the cake sit in the middle of the grow chamber and dump bulk substrate on top of it. is "layering" another good idea meaning I put bulk substrate on the bottom of the grow chamber first, then let the colonized cake sit in the middle, crumbled and spread, then dump another bulk substrate on top of it, thus the colonized substrate/cake is in the middle covered with bulk substrates? 5 pounds on the bottom and 5 pounds on top?
even though my grow chamber (Hydroshroom) gave a different growing approach, which was to dump hydrotons on the bottom of the grow chamber, add water (for moisture), then let the colonized cake sit on top of it, cover the grow chamber, have the thermometer that came with it set at appropriate temperature, have the air exchanger equipment do what it's supposed to do, etc.
Sounds complicated. Other strategies I know was simpler. Maybe I should just crumble the colonized cake and mix it with the bulk substrate bag (10 pound), close it and leave it be? The bag does have some kind of patch. Is this what you were talking about?
even though my grow chamber (Hydroshroom) gave a different growing approach, which was to dump hydrotons on the bottom of the grow chamber, add water (for moisture), then let the colonized cake sit on top of it, cover the grow chamber, have the thermometer that came with it set at appropriate temperature, have the air exchanger equipment do what it's supposed to do, etc.
Sounds complicated. Other strategies I know was simpler. Maybe I should just crumble the colonized cake and mix it with the bulk substrate bag (10 pound), close it and leave it be? The bag does have some kind of patch. Is this what you were talking about?
if I had injected NOT in the center, would't the center/middle then be the area NOT as colonized as where I injected them or if I had injected on 4 sides, the entire jar gets colonized much quicker?