Injecting at raves/dance parties/nightclubs

[TheYellowDart]

ANDO420: I haven't ground my teeth while on MDMA in years, I trained myself not to do this so I'm sure similar self training is possible for people on different drugs to different effects.

 

[Oceanboy]

The ethics/view & discrimination of administration methods.


Dear fellow people,
please don't get me wrong. I am advocating safe substance use, and harm minimization.
I am concerned that people discriminate against certain methods of of substance administration especially when used in a safe, clean & hygienic pure setting. What if someone wanted to inject a mix of glucose and caffeine or other "safe" and legal injectable substances, what are peoples reactions to that?
However IV or IM administration is not for everyone, especially not for the faint-hearted or under-educated person in these matters. I feel it needs proper training & education to safely administer a substance to the body via syringe. I assume that that up to this point in time, that perhaps most people, don't fully know the method of correct, safe and totally hygienic methods of IV/IM administration; and so because of that, I don't feel anybody should be doing it unless they really know what they are doing. The relevant health information pertaining to correct administration may be garnered via education from BL, Ravesafe, Vivaids(and other state injecting advocate groups), as well as professional medical education literature via web and other library media formats.
I am concerned that having syringe disposal boxes at clubs and raves, may increase the rate of incorrect administration of substances, and so I am not at this moment so comfortable with the existence of these yellow boxes at raves and clubs, as it may pull ignorant people into dangerous practices. We must look after the "newbies" and not get them involved in anything that they and their whole entire life circumstances may not be able to handle at that point in time.
I also don't prefer to see syringes lying around, - I mean if one is going to inject, please don't litter/pollute/offend by discarding device on floor, for that is obviously a disrespectful practice and also has seemed to perhaps not give injecting such a quite good reputation which is not so heartening; and so therefore proper & safe (YET DISCREET) disposal methods I feel must be encouraged. -like that put it in a bottle, cap the bottle idea & discreetly dispose of that in a bin. That is a good idea. Maybe there can be a disposal bin at the ravesafe stall if there is one. Some "fitpacks" come with an inbuilt disposal section within them. To be placing those blatant yellow boxes or not in particular spots is perhaps a complicated issue.
Regarding whether it is safer in a club/rave or in your car, I would propose that for substances that the user knows the strength of, It probably is safer in a car ( except for H, because with H there may be a risk of OD and should only really therefore be taken with a babysitter.)
(i don't know why anyone would want to do H at a rave or club anless they are trying to comedown from excessive stimulant imbibation, and even then I would prescribe (and only for that instance, not for days or weeks) a dose of benzodiazepine such as alprazolam or diazepam or a beta-blocker such as clonidine.)
[/COLOR=seagreen]
RaveSafetyFirst!

O.
FÉDÉRATION INTERNATIONALE DE 13:20:33 PLUR RAVESAFE
P.S. Magnesium can decrease teeth grinding and so can a pacifier but I myself don't have a teeth-grinding problem. Sweating is natural and I sweat normally on anything.
PEACE!

 

[twominds]

That is completely irrelevant. Mirrors in bathrooms are there for a purpose, not for drug use.

My personal opinion is, that if there are safe needle disposal units in bathrooms/toilets, it is giving the IV user a place where it is seen as acceptable to use needles for drug use. Having these units available is definitely NOT discouraging the use of needles in nightclubs or at raves.

I think that only the people who need insulin or other diabetic medicine should be provided with these safe disposal units, and seeing them in public toilets and in bathrooms at nightclubs are CERTAINLY not there for that purpose.

I am completely against intravenous/intramuscular drug use, for my own personal reasons and my status on this will not change.
I'm not out to ruffle the feathers of the IV/IM users out there, so please dont take it that way.

Patrons who attend raves or clubs are such a diverse group of people and obviously there are IV users among us. Why should someone need to be discouraged in using needles? I think the priority should be the safety and well being of the individual. We are all there for the same reasons, to party and feel free as long as we aren't harming others. I understand you being against IV use and I am comfortable with it. I just believe the needle disposal units are just catering for those who are IV users. Its not as there are yellow bins every where you look. There In private places, such as toilets. So people with strong feelings against it don't have to be around. And the yellow bins doesn't mean there is a shooting gallery on site. Most users are considerate to others and its not done blase and no one is the wiser.

 

[ANDO420]

ANDO420: I haven't ground my teeth while on MDMA in years, I trained myself not to do this so I'm sure similar self training is possible for people on different drugs to different effects.

Ok maybe that came across the wrong way.

I know you can train yourself not to grind and chew (you can also use magnesium supplement's) but I was only using the grinding as an example, Im sure if you had a good Md** pill there would be some visable affects, (If not I think it is time to have a little break ) did you train pupils not to get big???

posted by Oceanboy

I am concerned that having syringe disposal boxes at clubs and raves, may increase the rate of incorrect administration of substances,

So injecting in the car is a "Safer" and increase's the rate of correct administration? how does this work?

I am not at this moment so comfortable with the existence of these yellow boxes at raves and clubs, as it may pull ignorant people into dangerous practices

If Ignorant people are going to do drugs, they are going to do drugs, yellow box or no yellow box.

ppl don't just say "hey look theres a needle disposal box I think I might start shooting up"

please don't get me wrong. I am advocating safe subsatnce use, and harm minimization.
I am concerned that people discriminate against certain methods of of substance administration especially when used in a safe, clean & hygienic pure setting. What if someone wanted to inject a mix of glucose and caffeine or other "safe" and legal injectable substances, what are peoples reactions to that?

I don't care what ppl do or where, they can snort ajax or shoot H I don't particualy care,(whatever get's you off) aslong as it doesn't put "safer" users and non users at risk, Thats why I think they should have a "Safer" way to despose of the needles.

sorry for the long post

 

[sonicnature]

If Ignorant people are going to do drugs, they are going to do drugs, yellow box or no yellow box.

ppl don't just say "hey look theres a needle disposal box I think I might start shooting up"

What you are saying is either a poor attempt at humour or you need to read the full thread.

'Ignorant' users need to be educated on the dangers of IV/IM administration in my opinion, not encouraged to do it in areas seen as acceptable injecting areas. Why else would the club owner/local council provide safe disposal units in toilets if they disagreed with injecting? Why not put a notice on the wall saying, 'if you choose to inject drugs, please dispose of your waste safely in .... area' (away from public places). I completely understand that there are quite a lot of IV/IM users out there who are safe and responsible, and are educated on their choice of administration. But there is no denying the fact that more people contract diseases and illnesses from using needles than ANY other method of administration, and a lot of those people have an 'I dont care anymore' attitude, why does the public have to put up with this?

I'm not saying that the 'yellow boxes' are going to encourage new users to try IV/IM administration, just because they see them on the wall of a cubicle/bathroom. I am saying that these boxes encourage current users to administer their drugs in these areas, which may be a widely used public place (which public toilets and club toilets are).

 

[ANDO420]

Why not put a notice on the wall saying, 'if you choose to inject drugs, please dispose of your waste safely in .... area' (away from public places).

Yes I agree, this is a very good idea.

I'm not saying that the 'yellow boxes' are going to encourage new users to try IV/IM administration, just because they see them on the wall of a cubicle/bathroom. I am saying that these boxes encourage current users to administer their drugs in these areas, which may be a widely used public place (which public toilets and club toilets are).

It still sound's like you are discriminating against iv/im users, who cares where or what they inject, if they use the yellow boxes only the user is at risk from it, and it's there choice to iv/im in the first place, they know the risk

Why else would the club owner/local council provide safe disposal units in toilets if they disagreed with injecting?

"Some" ppl are going to inject in the toilets at raves and clubs regardless, so the club owner or local council put the yellow boxes in there so they don't have needles laying around, and if they do they know they have tried to stop it as best they can.

a lot of those people have an 'I dont care anymore' attitude, why does the public have to put up with this?

ppl who take pills and speed have that attitude, taking 10 pills a night and or a g of speed, why do public have to put up with this? (don't get me wrong, I take pills and speed to, and have never iv/im )

But there is no denying the fact that more people contract diseases and illnesses from using needles than ANY other method of administration

That can be attributed to lack of education imo.

 

[sonicnature]

It still sound's like you are discriminating against iv/im users, who cares where or what they inject, if they use the yellow boxes only the user is at risk from it, and it's there choice to iv/im in the first place, they know the risk

I'm not discriminating against the users themselves, I disagree with their practise and the associated health risks to the general public. I dont really care what they inject, its where it occurs that is a problem to me.
Here you are saying that it is the USER's choice to IV/IM and that they know the risks, when that is highly incorrect and contradicted by your last statement. The reason people contract HIV/AIDS or Hepatitis is because they are ignoring the risks associated with needle use. The risks are decreasing now due to further public awareness of the dangers.

ppl who take pills and speed have that attitude, taking 10 pills a night and or a g of speed, why do public have to put up with this? (don't get me wrong, I take pills and speed to, and have never iv/im )

I completely agree with you here, but the dangers associated with the administration and disposal of waste with IV/IM use are incomparable to oral consumption, plugging or snorting (is this called insufflation? please correct me if i am wrong).

 

[Flexistentialist]

I'm not discriminating against the users themselves, I disagree with their practise and the associated health risks to the general public.

I assume you mean the risks of a member of the public getting a needle stick injury? If so, it's quite clear that installing sharps bins where necessary will reduce that risk. You're assuming that installing sharps bins causes an increase in injecting. Have you got any evidence to support this claim?

Also, for the record, the risk of acquiring a blood borne virus from an unsafely disposed syringe in a community setting (park, beach, nightlcub toilet etc) is extremely small. There's never been a reported case of someone catching a blood borne virus from a community acquired needle stick injury.

 

[sonicnature]

I am not just singling out needle stick injury, also inclusive is sharing and reuse of needles, being the reason I said I diasgreed with the practise and associated health risks to the public.

I dont have evidence to support my claim, as they are of my personal opinion and experiences. I welcome corrections if you can prove my statements wrong though. After all, thats what a discussion board is all about.

 

[Flexistentialist]

Here's some useful reading on the topic of unsafe disposal:

* National Injecting Equipment Disposal Study (424KB pdf)

* Community Sharps Management Guidelines for NSW Councils (394KB pdf)

* www.communitysharps.org.au has comprehensive info on the use of public disposal units. Have a look at some of the "case studies".

If you read through these sources, you'll notice there's no evidence suggesting an increase in injecting drug use after public sharps bins are installed. If you can find some sources, I'd be very interested to read them.

There's heaps of evidence showing a decrease in unsafe disposal after public sharps bins are installed. This reduces potential harm to the public that might come from injecting drug use, and that includes people who work in or go to nightclubs / dance parties.

 

[sonicnature]

Excellent links there Flexistentialist. Very informative reading.

 

[SteveElektro]

Sonic Nature, The fact is that the driving force behind your opposition to IV use is moral, not rational. This explains the contradictions in your supposed concern for public health and your opposition to the provision of safe disposal solutions.
Rationality is abandoned when morality is the true driving force, because morality defies rationality, that is its nature. The sooner you stop trying to mask your moral stance with inconsistant and inherently flawed pretentions of rational concern for public safety, the sooner we can all just agree to disagree.

 

[ANDO420]

I am not just singling out needle stick injury, also inclusive is sharing and reuse of needles, being the reason I said I diasgreed with the practise and associated health risks to the public[/i].

But how is the public at risk from users sharing and/or the reuse of needles?

If users use the disposal boxes, what is the risk to the public?

 

[Prince Planet]

Not sure if this has been posted. Recent guidelines.

http://www.druginfo.adf.org.au/article.asp?ContentID=filtering_licit_and_illicit_dr

 

[ANDO420]

WOW old thread, I actualy made sence in some of my post's - yay for me...

 

[zaineaol.nu]

Per seeing people shoot up at raves.

this is unlikely in any sense, but ive caught someone shooting outside, when i was alot younger.

you wont see it inside, they have toilets and locks for that sort of thing. I guess people would go out to their car to do it. But it is done. It's nieve to think any route of administration isnt being used when a population of drug users fill a venue.