In vivo LSH conversion?

[Mr. White]

Many know of the LSA + Acetaldehyde + ethanol => LSH conversion.
LSA containing seeds are ground and soaked in water, supposedly extracting the "good" alkaloids and leaving the more sedating and nauseating alkaloids left in the seed pulp. This mixture is then filtered and an acetaldehyde source is added (commonly peppermint oil) and a small amount of ethanol. This supposedly causes the LSAs to form an adduct with the acetaldehyde and form a new, more visual, less sedating amide with the ethanol making it stable enough to reach the brain.

The Wizard has done extensive testing of this and swears by it in the "big and dandy lsa thread" and the "does anyone thing lsa just plain sucks?" thread in PD, as have I. It gives a much "better" experience for me, with much less nausea.

On one of my early experiences was eating 10 seeds and going out to a party, where i had some drinks. As the night wore on, my night got MUCH more visual. Flowing patterns overlayed across everything, like looking through a morphing stained glass window, strobe lights were almost incapacitating, my entire visual field became a fractal beauty, it also sounded as if there was a phaser on all my audio input, a kindoff swirling background noise.
10 seeds does not usually do this to me. Not by a long shot.

So my theory is that the LSH is formed in vivo. Ethanol is metabolized into acetaldehyde and then to acetic acid. My best guess is that the acetaldehyde combines with the LSAs into the LSH and is stabilised by the ethanol in my system. leading to a much more intense (and fun) experience.

How does this sound to the more learned and experieced?

 

[dye1337]

I for whatever reason cannot see acetaldehyde turning into acetic acid in vivo. Also, the "goods" in those seeds have been found to be various ergotines, not just LSA. To make it just iso-LSA and LSA you would have to hydrolize them (simple enough, but no where near worth it for the high) and then convert to LSH.

Just my 2 cents...

 

[Hammilton]

I really doubt this, but someone will have a better idea.

 

[Mr. White]

I for whatever reason cannot see acetaldehyde turning into acetic acid in vivo.

Thats how ethanol is metabolised
From wiki: Ethanol within the human body is converted into acetaldehyde by alcohol dehydrogenase and then into acetic acid by acetaldehyde dehydrogenase

And by LSAs i meant lysergic acid amides, as in a class of compounds.
The Wizard knows more than me about the conversion but LSH is lysergic acid hydroxyethylamide. The acetaldehyde forms an adduct.

The LSAs + peppermint oil + ethanol has been tried by several here and is definetly different and (for me) more visual than just the seeds

 

[fastandbulbous]

I for whatever reason cannot see acetaldehyde turning into acetic acid in vivo.

A reason like not checking in a biochemistry text book?

Personally though, I can't see the conversion taking place in vivo as the concentration of both LSA & acetaldehyde in blood plasma is going to be too dilute to form the adduct without an enzyme to shufty it along (the required concn. of acetaldehyde to form enough adduct would probably result in a feeling like you're dying - as in drinking on top of disulfram/Antabuse). Doing it in a container first though does have quite a good chance of forming the adduct.

As a cautionary note though, remember that if you're unfortunate to be found out to be doing that by the forces of law & order, you're leaving yourself open to a drug manufacturing charge - manufacture of a Class A drug in the UK carries a potential life jail term

 

[IGNVS]

Doing it in a container first though does have quite a good chance of forming the adduct.

holding down the froth of pepermint oil ethanol and seed water is a whole other story...

if you tought the seeds were gross wait until youve tried drinking THAT!

 

[dye1337]

"A reason like not checking in a biochemistry text book?"

I should have elaborated, I meant as in I doubt it would react with the LSA. My bad

 

[fastandbulbous]

holding down the froth of pepermint oil ethanol and seed water is a whole other story...

if you tought the seeds were gross wait until youve tried drinking THAT!

Not a problem for a 3rd dan black belt in consuming vile brews, who has successfully got down a couple of hundred millilitres of psychedelic elephant snot (boiled san pedro)

 

[Mr. White]

holding down the froth of pepermint oil ethanol and seed water is a whole other story...

if you tought the seeds were gross wait until youve tried drinking THAT!

it is pretty gross haha
i usually mix it with some OJ or something, it hides that woody, mouthwash taste

 

[hamhurricane]

i really hope someone proves/disproves this soon as it beginning to pique my interest, on another forum someone suggested using fresh orange juice instead saying it would contain more acetaldehyde, has anyone tried this?

 

[Solipsis]

Is the jury still out on in vitro LSH conversion, according to ADD attendees?

I thought myself that I after I read up about the subject (much of which at DMT Nexus) what I could conclude was that there was no scientific basis at all to consider LSH as the candidate for any possible conversion although an overwhelming amount of anecdotal evidence says that there is at least something happening... It may be placebo, it might be conversion to something not yet discovered, suggested or proven.

I am posting because we are discussing it in this very young thread over at PD:

http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthread.php?t=560689

edit:

Apparently the opinion I formed at the time was based upon convincing arguments others made, right now I don't think it's that silly at all that LSH conversion can take place. It seems to be explainable in fact, but I am afraid that I cannot say why because it would be synthesis discussion right?

Interesting reading material: https://www.dmt-nexus.com/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=69683#post69683

 

[Allylbenzene]

An old thread I know... whether this happens in-vivo or in-vitro who knows but here are some papers on the matter:

[Indole-nitrogen is able to form aldehyde adduct]
Tryptophan analogues form adducts by cooperative reaction with aldehydes and alcohols or with aldehydes alone: possible role in ethanol toxicity.
Proc Natl Acad Sci USA 1992 Sep 15;89(18):8439–8442
doi: 10.1073/pnas.89.18.8439
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC49935/

[Amide-nitrogen is able to form aldehyde adduct]
Aldehyde—Amide Condensation. I. Reactions between Aldehydes and Acetamide
J. Am. Chem. Soc.1933, 55, 8, 3493–3494
doi: 10.1021/ja01335a085
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/ja01335a085

Shroomey user mixes MG seeds with sassafras roots, he seems aware of the LSA/aldehyde dynamic.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/12216856/

Here's one of the dmt nexus mods promoting the use of aldehydes with MB/HBWR seeds:

Of course, with a sample size of one, my anecdotal data isn't worth terribly much; it may also be worthy of note that my one successful excursion with these seeds was a counterpoint to what amounted to something of a preceeding alcoholic binge including consumption of brandy to wash the seeds down. This sort of ties in with the still-controversial, not to mention somewhat tainted, acetaldehyde hypothesis - although I would recommend in vitro combination of the extract with an acetaldehyde-rich beverage (or, very possibly, one with any of various other aldehydes) such as brandy or peppermint tea prior to consumption, rather than relying on the in vivo reaction of the lysergamides with endogenously produced acetaldehyde which is obviously rather hard on the body.