In the end all that matters is relationships?

[socko]

...
Loneliness is so incredibly powerful. That deep drive to be seen and heard and acknowledged can make us individually and collectively completely lose our bearings (and end up with the horrendous world of image over authenticity, possessions trumping knowledge and compassion, etc, etc). But In my experience loneliness, when fully embraced, can be the most liberating learning experience of this whole little set of years we call a life. I feel like most little kids don't feel lonely unless they are abused or truly neglected. I never remember feeling lonely as a young child. It was comfortable, even desirable, to be alone and I was as happy playing by myself as I was playing with my siblings or a friend. But adolescence changed all that and suddenly loneliness became so threatening that without even realizing the change, I would do anything to avoid feeling it. I would hang out with people that made me uncomfortable, stay with a boy that I didn't really care for and do anything I could to create the image that I was never alone--all the while feeling more and more lonely.

Do you think the desire to create the image of never being alone is behind the success of social media taht make someone look popular but don't seem to be based on any kind of deep and meaningful relationships like "Facebook?" Behind the popularity of Fraternities and Sororities in college?

Looking back now I see that it wasn't so much that I wanted to feel loved as it was that I wanted the world to see that I was loved. That is probably when I started to lose that deep and unconscious relationship to myself, when image started to replace substance. I think my whole trajectory is pretty common for young people in modern cultures and I feel lucky to have had interventions that derailed it. I know plenty of people my age that seem to be still stuck in that rut.
.....

Do you think most people in modern cultures go through this? I felt horribly lonely as a child, but I got over it in college. I realized that I don't like being around most (99 % ) people for various reasons. I have never had a FAcebook account or been in a Fraternity, and I've tended to not care what anybody thinks about me irl. I don't mind being the person who sits alone with a notebook or sketchpad or whatever. Since then, I can spend a year alone in a cabin in the desert and not feel lonely.

Even where I am now, I don't care what if I project the image of a loner ... but this is the first time since childhood that I felt lonely and I've really felt the need to have a friend or two. I had to learn the language, and I find myself doing social activities all the time and have made a few friends.

Of course, I am extremely selective about who I make friends with - even more now than when I was in college. I think because I'm in a city without daily access to nature other than something like le jardin du Luxembourg. The nearest thing to the wilderness I'm used to is 4 hours away by train.

 

[Ninae]

"In any new relationship, when the two are very much in love with each other, the energy of beginning is surrounding and protecting them – because love is sacred. But, with time, we get used even to love. We get used to one another and the magic disappears. We forget to keep the intimate and empathic contact with each other.

We continue to make love, but without the sparkle, without the magic – without the sacred. That is why misunderstandings, conflicts, fights appear – because we do not treat love like the only thing to live for. We disregard the sanctity of the feeling, the sanctity of our relationship. The relationship that we have is a sacred place: we must offer it love and respect, humility. The relationship teaches us about life and about ourselves, so it deserves the best of ourselves.

The alternative to the ordinary couple is the spiritualized couple, who continuously maintains the contact with divinity. Such couples get to be strengthened, rejuvenated, happy. “One of the secrets is to learn to love without expecting to be loved in return, because then you become free and you can do a lot with this freedom.”

- Omraam Mikhael Aivanhov

 

[Ninae]

This makes me not waht to get into any new relationship (and if I do would like it to be celibate).

 

[88dood88]

I had similar relevations I'd say a few years ago. It happened when I was out of school and pretty much alone in my house for like 9 months, and I was vaping spice all the time to relieve the terrible boredom. I had nothing to do, I was depressed, stopped working out and wasn't working anywhere, so literally almost completely alone, as even though my parents came home after work I still isolated myself from it in a haze of drugs.

If anyone has had profound thoughts or realizations while being high on weed, these thoughts on spice were pretty much the same except obviously the experience itself was a lot more intense and there was no lying about how you really felt about things. Well naturally during this time I tried to numb my thoughts with internet and gaming usage, but the thoughts still slipped through when I was very stoned.

It wasn't a cathartic experience, it was actually quite terrifying because it completely seeped through the emotional barrief I had put up long before I had even been in high school. It made me take a look at lots of memories in my life and how I reacted to it sober. I had been blaming everyone else for my problems when I realized that it was me, I was the problem. I had shunned away everyone from getting to know the true me, and if you block one emotion, love/intimacy in this case, then you block them all. My personality had become a mask I was wearing.

I had socially isolated myself from my family without ever considering what they felt or saw when I did this. I thought about how it effected my two younger brothers, who both were starting to develop psychological issues, and how I was a flaky and unreliable friend in the past - only doing things when I would benefit from it. The whole ordeal made me aware of how my actions very much upset other people and how it stemmed from deep rooted insecurity.

The other reason it was terrifying was that an even darker realization was made - that I would never choose to open up to another individual and experience a true relationship. Living in ignorance was almost better, as I know what will eventually happen.

Anyways, sorry for the rant. Youre topic resonated deeply with me.

 

[socko]

"In any new relationship, when the two are very much in love with each other, the energy of beginning is surrounding and protecting them – because love is sacred. But, with time, we get used even to love. We get used to one another and the magic disappears. We forget to keep the intimate and empathic contact with each other.

We continue to make love, but without the sparkle, without the magic – without the sacred. That is why misunderstandings, conflicts, fights appear – because we do not treat love like the only thing to live for. We disregard the sanctity of the feeling, the sanctity of our relationship. The relationship that we have is a sacred place: we must offer it love and respect, humility. The relationship teaches us about life and about ourselves, so it deserves the best of ourselves.

The alternative to the ordinary couple is the spiritualized couple, who continuously maintains the contact with divinity. Such couples get to be strengthened, rejuvenated, happy. “One of the secrets is to learn to love without expecting to be loved in return, because then you become free and you can do a lot with this freedom.”

- Omraam Mikhael Aivanhov

In the first case, the ordinary couple, a lot of that is only hormones. It feels like a drug. It wears off after the "Honey Moon phase". The couple gets bored with the relationship. Maybe real love is like Ivanhov's spiritualized couple. It takes work and effort to survive and grow. Both people need to understand that and try to mainitain contact with divinity. If they do, they get more out of life, enhance and complement each other, and grow spiritually. How many people realize this in the modern world? How many people does one even meet who understands what 'higher consciousness' is or who has raised theirs and seen from an elevated viewpoint? With a divorce rate of around 60%, and countless more unhappy marriages, maybe not so many.

As far as staying celibate, they would both need to understand taht is expected and have similar sex drives or they're not going to be happy.

 

[-=SS=-]

I had similar relevations I'd say a few years ago. It happened when I was out of school and pretty much alone in my house for like 9 months, and I was vaping spice all the time to relieve the terrible boredom. I had nothing to do, I was depressed, stopped working out and wasn't working anywhere, so literally almost completely alone, as even though my parents came home after work I still isolated myself from it in a haze of drugs.

Anyways, sorry for the rant. Youre topic resonated deeply with me.

When you remove all social stimulus your mind begins to turn inwards on itself. That's great if you're pursuing philosophical and psychological self-knowledge.. not so good if you're just the average joe. I went through a similar state to yourself when I was 19. I dropped out of uni, played games and smoked weed for an entire year in my room, facilitated by my soft parents.. having said that I would have crashed and burned if they chucked me out. So naive.

Your post resonated with me and upset me actually.. as alone as I felt at that time clearly many others have been through it too. That hurts, for me, for them, for society that is clearly failing a lot of young people. I've shared this revelation here before, but: Once I smoked some weed, had been a year clean, was A++++ stuff grown by a dude who did a Masters in Horticulture (mad weed!), I had to go lay down because I started tripping. Anyway I saw all these faces in my minds eye and then mine appeared.. I felt a deep sorrow and pain because I saw who I really was in that instant, a mask covering all this emotional pain, and that my actions towards others were not great. I hadn't hurt anyone intentionally but I was just a weak person really.. in some respects I still am, but I acknowledge that and am working on it.

The other reason it was terrifying was that an even darker realization was made - that I would never choose to open up to another individual and experience a true relationship.

We're all broken to a degree here, it is no ones fault.. but there are so many people out there who still carry the flame, though it seems far and few between. The more you open and accept yourself the more you'll see it in other people. It only takes a smile sometimes. I would strongly urge you to consider the notion that that particular revelation was not coming from "you".. no one genuinely believes they are beyond a true relationship, that is fear and pain speaking not you. I've seen my insecurities in visions and heard them taunt me (during altered-states).. it's a horrible experience but it always makes it clear who I am and what I am not. Don't let the darkness cloud your judgement.

 

[-=SS=-]

88dood88: I would also like to recommend a piece of music to you, might get you thinking or inspire you. It's relevant to this topic of relationships, in particular empathy. 'Echoes' by Pink Floyd. Enjoy.

 

[swilow]

Strangers passing in the street...

 

[herbavore]

Do you think the desire to create the image of never being alone is behind the success of social media taht make someone look popular but don't seem to be based on any kind of deep and meaningful relationships like "Facebook?" Behind the popularity of Fraternities and Sororities in college?

I do think that facebook contributes to the shallowness of friendships. I also think it can be an addictive "substance" for some people. I do think it is also useful though and can foster connection. An example: I know I've talked about the little experimental hippie school I went to back in the 70's before. It was a radical experiment with about 60 kids on an old farm on 300 acres. It only lasted 2 years and my boyfriend and I dropped out and ran away anyway so I had lost contact with all those kids, never expecting to see most of them again. Through FB however someone managed to start contacting people and now here we are a whole bunch of people in our 60s that shared this amazing formative experience at 14, 15 and 16, reconnecting. Without the internet and social media this never would have happened.

Do you think most people in modern cultures go through this? I felt horribly lonely as a child, but I got over it in college. I realized that I don't like being around most (99 % ) people for various reasons. I have never had a FAcebook account or been in a Fraternity, and I've tended to not care what anybody thinks about me irl. I don't mind being the person who sits alone with a notebook or sketchpad or whatever. Since then, I can spend a year alone in a cabin in the desert and not feel lonely.

Even where I am now, I don't care what if I project the image of a loner ... but this is the first time since childhood that I felt lonely and I've really felt the need to have a friend or two. I had to learn the language, and I find myself doing social activities all the time and have made a few friends.

Of course, I am extremely selective about who I make friends with - even more now than when I was in college. I think because I'm in a city without daily access to nature other than something like le jardin du Luxembourg. The nearest thing to the wilderness I'm used to is 4 hours away by train.

And yes, sororities and fraternities, (not to mention the many gangs where I live) seem to be at least partially a need to define oneself within a smaller group (and these groups have both perceived power and perceived safety). And here again I think is our need to be seen--it's like we just can't quite accept that we are these little insignificant ordinary human beings among many other insignificant ordinary human beings. The paradox is that when you accept that about yourself and perceive others that way, no matter what letters they have after their names or how many 0's are contained in their salaries or whether they have a best selling novel or a perfect body, you simultaneously begin to perceive yourself and others as actually mattering very much on a deeper level. And this I think was the point =ss= was making: relationships give meaning to life. I think we are mostly talking about human relationships but I would expand it to include relationships between different species and the mother of all relationships, the relationship to nature and the earth itself.