• 🇳🇿 🇲🇲 🇯🇵 🇨🇳 🇦🇺 🇦🇶 🇮🇳
    Australian & Asian
    Drug Discussion


    Welcome Guest!
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

Immunising kids against drugs?

CouncilScribe

Bluelighter
Joined
Nov 17, 2004
Messages
60
A group of Queensland Nationals say the Federal Government may be asked to investigate giving an "anti-junkie" vaccination to children under the age of 12 months.

The vaccination would render children immune to becoming smokers and drug users.

Federal Health Minister Tony Abbot is yet to be approached about the radical plan, which is also being considered by British MP's.
-source sky news-
Anyone know anything about this?
 
Haven't heard of anything yet... But for that to happen Nerves n receptors would need to be closed off for those sorts of things....

If they don't want smokers why don't they just ban cigarettes... Also I think it is anyones right to consume something, but I spose it's illegal too!!! Who knows what they will do???

SpecTBK=D
 
Yeah great! I've got a 4yr old. I wouldnt let them come near her with that fucking needle. We all know that in 10 years time they'll realise that all of the kids who got this shot ended up with cancer or something .
Like someone said earlier, If smoking & drinking is so fucking bad & addictive, why not ban it? ha! The government works in mysterious ways. 8o
 
There have been threads on this before, and there are plenty of news stories if you search google. Here is one from the CCLE:

Children to get jabs against drug addiction
Ministers consider vaccination scheme. Heroin, cocaine and nicotine targeted


Sophie Goodchild and Steve Bloomfield, The Independent (UK), July 25, 2004

A radical scheme to vaccinate children against future drug addiction is being considered by ministers, The Independent on Sunday can reveal.

Under the plans, doctors would immunise children at risk of becoming smokers or drug users with an injection. The scheme could operate in a similar way to the current nationwide measles, mumps and rubella vaccination programme.

Childhood immunisation would provide adults with protection from the euphoria that is experienced by users, making drugs such as heroin and cocaine pointless to take. Such vaccinations are being developed by pharmaceutical companies and are due to hit the market within two years.

The Department of Trade and Industry has set up a special project to investigate ways of using new scientific breakthroughs to combat drug and nicotine addiction.

A national anti-drug immunisation scheme is one of the proposals being put forward by the Brain Science, Addiction and Drugs project, an expert committee of scientists appointed by the Government earlier this year.

Professor David Nutt, a leading government drugs adviser who sits on the committee, told the IoS that anti-drug vaccines for children are likely to be among the panel's recommendations when it reports next March.

Professor Nutt, head of psychopharmacology at the University of Bristol and a senior member of the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs, said: "People could be vaccinated against drugs at birth as you are against measles. You could say cocaine is more dangerous than measles, for example. It is important that there is a debate on this issue. This is a huge topic - addiction and smoking are major causes of premature death."

According to the Government's own figures, the cost of drug addiction - through related crime and health problems - to the economy is £12bn a year. There is a strong incentive for the Government to find new ways to halt spiralling addiction. Last week, the IoS revealed that cocaine use had trebled in Britain with increasing numbers of users switching to highly addictive crack cocaine.

Scientists are already conducting trials for drugs that can be used by doctors to vaccinate against cocaine, heroin and nicotine addiction.

Xenova, the British biotechnology firm, has carried out trials on an anti-cocaine vaccine which showed that 58 per cent of patients remained cocaine-free after three months.

Meanwhile, experts at the Scripps Research Institute in San Diego, California, have developed a super-virus, harmless to humans, which produces proteins that can block or reduce the effects of cocaine.

The team at Scripps tested the virus on rats by injecting it into their noses twice a day for three days.

On the fourth day, the rats were given a shot of cocaine. The researchers found that cocaine had more effect on the rats not injected with the virus than those that were. Scientists hope that the virus will help stop the cravings experienced by cocaine users for the drug by blocking the pleasure they normally associate with cocaine. This anti-drug medication is expected to be available to users within the next two years in the form of a nasal spray.

Proposals to introduce a national anti-drug vaccination programme have been given a cautious welcome by MPs and experts.

Ian Gibson, head of the Commons Science and Technology Committee, said the Government would have to carry out public consultation. "There is no reason to think this would not be a starter or beneficial," said Dr Gibson, Labour MP for Norwich North. "But ... proper consultation with the public needs to happen well in advance."

David Hinchliffe, chairman of the Commons Health Committee and Labour MP for Wakefield, said: "This could have a huge impact on society in terms of preventing damage to others and dealing with addicts. [But] the ethical perspective does need to be looked at closely."

The National Treatment Agency, which manages drug-addiction programmes, welcomed any new ways of treating addiction but said there was no "magic bullet".
This kind of vaccination denies the right of free choice by the child, and puts drug use in the same category as a disease. I recognise that while addicition is a disease, drugs used in moderation is not. Pharmacology gone wrong.
 
^^^
I agree with you 100% everyone has the right to a free choice.
 
This sort of stuff makes my blood boil

What's next then? Immunising against depression, social irritability and work sickies?

Of course no list of injectable compliances would be complete without eradicating the most evil of all evils i.e. having any tendency to vote for something other than 'real liberal' cleansing :p

FFS, if a government wants to play God then why at least not start with some real life improvement for terminal patients by allowing broader genetic research. Be humane even if that requires using human embryos at this – the embryonic stage of the science.


What should be realized of course, is that if this was to somehow eventuate, like the immune program incentives previously introduced, those who complied would naturally expect something of a 'direct' financial pat on the back.

1984; it's come and gone, hasn’t it?

If this is the way conservative governments are to apply new technology, then one ought to think very carefully about being a part of the next medico-technical revolution. Nano machines could be used as mini doom stars of infinite capability. They could be reprogrammed remotely with each incoming government. In principle, it would not much different to current political strategy - especially with a 'no recompense' plan of intentionally broken promises, aye Johnny ;)


"How does this program look sir"

"Very good James, It looks as if we can really improve public acceptance of us, the new government. All that from simply through instilling [installing] a subtle confidence steeped in public awe, thereby ensuring an optimal degree of social compliance. Don't you just love nano technology James?... may as well upload it to the masses"

"Certainly sir" ...Cllliiick


Of course, with nano-immunized citizens, individual longevity would also need to be preselected in accordance with rising public health costs (i.e. if there is any future benefit scheme). But in a Right –> Further Right world, a few extra paid tax dollars may make all the difference to your family's life expectancy.....


Sure it's all seems like a wildly paranoid fantasy, but technology wise, it's all within foreseeable reach. Just remember, most earthly bound inhabitants are followers, and like fodder for hungry sheep, immuno-nano tech will, in all likelihood be something society at large embraces with open arms. What do you think the next big money application for molecular docking (SAR predicting- drug discovery) software will be, if not in areas of bio-nano-programming? It's already happening.

If you are to become a part of this Behaving New World, just make sure you're connected enough to get prototype copies with manual override and a hackers port.... 8(

Step up for your compliance shot. You only need one, and in the eyes of the great leaders, you'll be set for life
19.gif

8)
'
'
'


>> Back to the Present <<<<<<<<<


Of course the irony, if drug immunizations were to be endorsed by governments, is that it will lead to criminal groups developing and marketing new drugs. Authorities might be able to immunize against heroin, but they couldn't block all the actions of all opioids because other opioids are used in medicine. So any effort to strip the market of heroin, cocaine etc, would simply result in new types, or uncommonly seen forms of the drugs being sold on the street.

What governments need to remember is that the direction the illicit market heads in, doesn't necessarily only reflect consumer demand. It may have done in the past, but the market is vastly bigger today and numbers of crime lords abound today. And like successful networking seen in the bootlegging days of prohibition, collaboration does go on (or there would be more deaths from rivalry - which proportionally speaking, we don't see)

IMO, the National market is far from saturated. The efficient internal structure which appears to exist, and the huge profits made from drugs will very likely mean the problem won't go away over night. Reducing demand is essential, but immunization is NOT the way to go about it.

Any idea of reducing the market this way is bullshit. There's just too much money earned by too many smart crooks who've got way too many resources at their disposal...It ain't gonna happen, people will always want to get high :\
 
Last edited:
Immunising or genetically engineering humans to reduce susceptiablity to the effects of illegal drugs reminds me of GATTACA.

I know that I'd want my children to have the free range of human possibilities, which includes the right to make mistakes and even suffer from addiction. These sorts of initiatives are worrying because it puts us on a very slippery slope, addiction to shopping, gambling and so on are human problems, that need human solutions.

Engineering such problems out of the human landscape is nothing short of zombification.

:\
 
^^ yeap. were studying GATTACA in english rite now at school. sounds exactly like that.
everyone has freedom of choice and how they want to live their own lives and the government is basically saying "we dont want you to grow up taking those things even though we probably smoke and drink" pffft to that. I think its a stupid idea, people have to experience things for themselves, otherwise they never learn. How are kids meant to learn if theyre fucking vaccinated from something that might be inevitable to try? for fucks sake!! its a bit ridiculous and over the top i think. its like theyre trying to get to the source of the next generation of smokers and drug-takers before they can even walk! fucked up! what do they think this is going to achieve? a "cleaner" world? i dont think so! its like theyre trying to sweep all the "shit" in this world out of the way! pffffft.
 
i think this is so dumb.
in 10 years they will find out that a derivitive of heroin or something is the cure for cancer and all these people wont be able to get it.....*dumb*
 
has anyone read Tintin and the Picaros?

Cos this so reminds me of the bit where Prof calculus invents that stuff that makes alchohol repulsive to people, and then gives it to captain haddock! :D
 
I give it 50 years.

try 10-30 years


From: Nasa-Indian biotech to collaborate


Abstract:


Tuesday, 22 June , 2004, 15:04

The National Aeronautic and Space Administration (Nasa), USA, is looking for collaboration with Indian industries in order to transfer its spin-off technologies, especially in the bio-medical field, for the benefit of the common man, a Nasa scientist has said.

"Nasa is working on nano-biotechonologies for the astronauts who will undertake manned Mars Mission 30 years from now," Dr Robert W Mah, director, Smart Systems Research Laboratory, Ames Research Centre of Nasa in California, said on Monday.

He was addressing reseachers from the Indian pharmaceutical industry at the first World Congress on "nano-biotechnology".

As the scientists had found that the astronauts were likely to suffer with bone loss 10 times more than normal (loss of calcium), risk of fracture, painful kidney stones, motion sickness (confusing signals sent to brain), back pain, muscle atrophy, fluid shifts, eye injuries and other diseases like breast cancer, Nasa has taken up projects to solve these problems, Mah said.

Some of the technologies of Nasa include CNT microscopy for better imaging (which is already commercialised in US), nano-based gene sequencing technique, nano-biosensors currently used by National Cancer Institute in US), nanotubes, nano mechanics, smart tools for virtual treatment and suggestive probes, he said.

A few US companies which have Indian base have already come forward to collaborate with Nasa in promoting technologies developed by NASA, he added.

NASA began its nano-biotechnology work in 1997 and has 50 scientists working. With a current budget of $645 million, the nano-biotechnologists of Nasa are expected to get around $781 million by 2006, he said.

Stating that nano-biotechnology would revolutionise the world economy to a great extent, he opined it would make better social and economic sense.

Describing the smart software that learns from experience (from space craft motions), Mah said, "Nasa has already began working on the new technologies which would help the astronauts undertaking Mars mission - to maintain their biological functions on a sustainable basis."

Asked whether Nasa is going for commercialisation for their facilities, Mah said, so far only the Jet Propulsion Lab (JPL) in California is commercialised. There are about 11 more units of Nasa and commercialisation of these have not been worked out so far.

"May be in the near future," he said.

Asked about funding for biotechnology research, he said there are venture capitalists who are providing for private research projects and "the funding is comparatively less”.

Speaking on the occasion, Dr Pawan Saharan, founder CEO of Biomix Network, said his company is interested in collaboration with Nasa for taking these spin-off technologies (smart tools) to remote areas of the country, especially in the field of virtual treatment.

The Artificial Intelligence Knowledge Acquisition Tool (AIKAT) developed by Biomix network would be useful in developing new drugs by reducing the time taken for development and replacing millions of Petri dishes used conventionally.

With AIKAT, the amount of money spent on drug development could be virtually reduced from $8-15 billion to just $300 million, Saharan said.



Chatter around is that NASA may be forced to review options for a 2014 manned flight to Mars as conditions are so perfect and won't be again for many years. If this turns out to be so, it will mean nanotechnology is closer than we think.

Check out this PP for some interesting insight into some of NASA's planned activities.

Space flight in the 21st century
 
Last edited:
This is the most stupidist thing ive ever heard... kids will be kids and explore all kinds of stufff.... will they immunise agianst sex so we cant get STD's??? Let the kids decide... i dont know if it will be compulsary for the children though? maybe parents choice?
 
I've been digging through some of the many citations returned from searching 'addiction immunization' and have found an interesting one on the ethical principles of immunizing adults.

Immunization for prevention and treatment of cocaine abuse: legal and ethical implications1

Peter J. Cohen

Medications Development Division, National Institute on Drug Abuse, National Institutes of Health, Rockville, MD, USA

Received 14 October 1996; accepted 21 May 1997. Available online 7 September 1999.


Abstract

A previous cocaine vaccine, currently under investigation by several laboratories, would be an innovative and exciting means of treating and preventing previous termcocainenext term addiction. However, an approved vaccine will raise at least two major areas of concern. (1) Loss of privacy: previous cocaine antibodies might be used as a marker to identify, penalize, and stigmatize vaccinated individuals. (2) Selection for previous vaccination: should immunization be voluntary or compelled; should immunization be restricted to addicts, to those at risk of addiction, or should it be universal; should immunization be used in children? I propose to analogize cocaine addiction to an infectious disease which poses a major public health problem. This approach can provide an ethical and legal foundation on which we may begin to formulate a societal approach to the use of the cocaine vaccine.

Looks as though Meth addiction hasn't been left out

VMAT2 Blockade and Methamphetamine-Induced Neurotoxicity: Implications for Medications Development

On December 5, 2003, in Bethesda, MD, Dr. Nathan Appel, DTR&D, chaired a consultants meeting entitled "VMAT2 Blockade and Methamphetamine-Induced Neurotoxicity: Implications for Medications Development."

Dr. Frank Vocci presented the Medications Discovery Program to the consultants, describing its history, organization, accomplishments, and current undertakings.

Dr. Bryan Yamamoto (Boston University) then spoke on effects of methamphetamine on brain neurochemistry and neuroanatomy, Dr. Annette Fleckenstein (University of Utah) spoke on effects of methamphetamine on brain membrane monoamine transporters and VMAT2, Dr. Raul Gainetdinov (Duke University) spoke on effects of methamphetamine in VMAT2 knockout animals compared to wild types, and Dr. Linda Dwoskin (University of Kentucky) spoke on biochemistry and behavioral pharmacology of lobeline. A group of listening consultants - consisting of experts in toxicology, pharmacokinetics, and pathology related to medications discovery - provided feedback to NIDA. The consultants recommended in vivo animal studies and a number of endpoints that NIDA could use to evaluate the safety of a potential methamphetamine abuse medication whose effects include VMAT2 blockade.



I've several papers on drug immunization if anyone is interested. And if the above nano-tech stuff made no sense, you might like to read this E-book on Ultimate Computing: Biomolecular Consciousness and NanoTechnology [warning: 272 pages]
 
huhu...

Clockwork Orange

While we're at it with these "immunisations", lets wipe out violence and "deviant" sexual behaviour.

Then society would be perfect!

8|
 
bio-nano-programming - cyber punk here we come! I can't wait to hack into my conciousness and alter it through new means. No amount of effort to control conciousness will ever prevail. That is just no the nature of our changing complex world.

:D
 
SIM-1 said:
Yeah great! I've got a 4yr old. I wouldnt let them come near her with that fucking needle. We all know that in 10 years time they'll realise that all of the kids who got this shot ended up with cancer or something .
Like someone said earlier, If smoking & drinking is so fucking bad & addictive, why not ban it? ha! The government works in mysterious ways. 8o

lol as if there gonna ban it.. you know how much cash they make of ciggys n alcohol.. but ur right.. if they really did give a fuck they would ban ciggaretts..
 
What effect do these immunisations against junkies drugs do to our bodies to stop us wanting any other sort of drug??? Surely the effects they are going to have on pigs are going to be different to that of an effect on a human as i have never heard of a junkie pig... What sort of a idoit will put their child up for a vaccination trial, sure maybe if your child had cancer and there was a new treatment out you might volunteer but for a injection to stop your child doing drugs and no one know if it is going to rip your head aprt by shutting off the nerve controllers that react and make us want drugs, i dont think i would let my child or any one elses child near that needle. But this is tony abbot the man who is so religious and against abortion and embryo research that he has a child 25 years ago and adopts it out, what sort of a good guy is he? waits till the child is self supportive till he speaks to it again so it doesnt fuk up his pollitical career instead we (austrlaia) congratulate him on reconecting with his son wtf...
 
I had read of this before in the UK, but hadn't heard about it in Australia until the weekend. Scary times indeed and social engineering at a technological level that is far beyond our understanding of the human psyche.

Many thanks for the research, phase-dancer, though it has served to increase my concerns. Neurological research is not yet at a stage where we understand the complexities of the human brain, yet we are rapidly proceeding through an era where we are happy to tinker with our neurological systems to merely satify temporary social trends. Fuck me!

I sincerely hope that this doesn't get off the ground, but I am astounded how far this research has progessed without an ethical red flag being waved. We wont allow stem cell research on unused human embryos, but we will allow permanent alteration of basic human neurological functioning? Unbelievable. And very, very scary.

The comparison of cocaine addiction to an infectious disease is most alarming - this is a false comparison! There are no parallels between addiction and disease infection, neither in transmission or impact. Why have we abandoned the notion that intoxication is about choice, rather than a genetic flaw, an inherently negative weakness?

I read an article on this in the paper. The conservative imbecile behind the Australian call refers to drugs as a scourge on society. Such gross public ignorance is the most powerful force driving these lunatic directions in the impotent "war" on drugs and human nature.

<tangent> Rest assured, citixens of the future, that your night's sleep will never be disturbed due to pain, fear or duress. Be certain that your productivity will never suffer in the face of the pure joy of living or the desolation of loss. We shall medicate you against your own humanity so you may be good little consumers, worker-drones for the greater good of the corporate government </tangent>

Angry!
 
Top