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Immigration discussion
- Thread starter swilow
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Asylum seeker hotel worker, 27, stabbed to death 'with screwdriver' as man, 18, charged with murder - LBC News
This is the UK. Worker at one of the 'migrant' hotels, stabbed in the neck with a fucking screwdriver after leaving work, and over a dispute about a packet of biscuits.
Note the underlined words:
- 'Killed', not murdered
- '18 year old', not '18 year old illegal immigrant/migrant/refugee'
- 'Residents', not 'Other illegal immigrants/migrants/refugees'
- And all over a packet of fucking biscuits
And then you have these MSM liberal shitheaps like LBC, that can't even report on the story with accurate language. Fucking disgrace.
Examples of subtle ways that narratives get shifted to increase or dampen the emotional response of readers. We have less of a filter for that sort of stuff when reading text-based communication vs. hearing someone speaking about it. In the past, news was communicated orally, often in person, or through radio/television. Non-verbal communication is more easily recognized in those contexts. When communication becomes increasingly shared through text-based mediums, those non-verbal cues get hidden and we are left to simply read the words presented to us without necessarily having a way to gauge how honestly or misleading those terms are unless careful inspection occurs.
Propaganda.
I was just in a meeting with colleagues of mine discussing city updates and issues we're facing with our homeless/unhoused folks. One of my colleagues was talking about having just returned from visiting Costa Rica - a place widely seen as a shining example of a modern Latin American state that has less of the problems related to cartel violence and political instability as some of it's neighbors.
She talked about a disturbing increase in acts of horrible violence against people sleeping outside, since their new administration took power. People are setting homeless/unhoused folks on-fire, and there is messaging about how these people are 'sub-human'/'animals'. This has been invigorated by messaging from elected leaders who have taken a hard line against poverty.
Blaming the victims of poverty is not going to solve the problem, though it is more than reasonable to hold individuals accountable for their actions. The actions of this 18 year old kid are unfathomably fucked up - and it's horrible to hear that someone who was trying to do public good was murdered. My goal is always to move beyond rhetoric and work towards solutions for individual and systemic ills. Often, our elected leaders (and former reality television stars ) - particularly those who are most interested in power (looking at you DJT) - are most satisfied with stirring the pot through rhetoric while passing the buck down as to not take on responsibility for solving these problems.
All those isolated news stories of immigrants being violent are incongruent with the reality if the situation. Immigrants in the US are 35% less likely to commit a crime compared to a naturalized US citizen.
News titles are drifting further and further away from reality as the US internal propaganda machine has sharpened it's teeth from decades of manipulative practice.
I think we do need immigration reform, and to slow it down a bit. I think illegals, in most cases, should be deported. Yet, making scare stories that cause people to be afraid of or to hate other humans is the wrong way to go about it.
I used to hang out with illegal aliens near the border. Met several from all over, Mexico, Honduras, El Salvador, etc. They aren't going out and trying to vote, or trying to rape people. They keep their damn heads down and avoid police and government at all cost... because they spent every last penny and risked their life getting here. They don't want to bring any attention to themselves that would jeopardize that.
They don't vote, and are less violent than your neighbor. But that doesn't necessarily mean I think we should allow them to stay.
I dig for the truth in all things.
Stop. Believing. Everything. You. See. On. TV.
News media is more interested in ad revenue than actually giving you unadulterated information.
News titles are drifting further and further away from reality as the US internal propaganda machine has sharpened it's teeth from decades of manipulative practice.
I think we do need immigration reform, and to slow it down a bit. I think illegals, in most cases, should be deported. Yet, making scare stories that cause people to be afraid of or to hate other humans is the wrong way to go about it.
I used to hang out with illegal aliens near the border. Met several from all over, Mexico, Honduras, El Salvador, etc. They aren't going out and trying to vote, or trying to rape people. They keep their damn heads down and avoid police and government at all cost... because they spent every last penny and risked their life getting here. They don't want to bring any attention to themselves that would jeopardize that.
They don't vote, and are less violent than your neighbor. But that doesn't necessarily mean I think we should allow them to stay.
I dig for the truth in all things.
Stop. Believing. Everything. You. See. On. TV.
News media is more interested in ad revenue than actually giving you unadulterated information.
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Setting homeless citizens on fire is one thing. Allowing in completely unvetted foreigners and paying for them to be put up in hotels at tax payer expense, is another thing entirely. The two are not comparable and actually what you just wrote, even if sincere and based in compassion, only fans the flames of this nonsense. You do see that, right?
This person should not have even been allowed into the country in the first place. Countries don't allow other people to enter without documentation, or without going through a stringent approval process. The only exception is refugees fleeing war, and the definition of that is seeking refuge in the closest available state.. not travelling across two entire fucking continents to seek out the most economically generous soft-touch nations for personal gain.
Moreover, what sort of person fleeing any sort of violent state would stab a completely innocent citizen in the back of the neck, with a screwdriver, over a packet of biscuits. A person who was trying to help them no less. Genuine refugees do not engage in that sort of behaviour.
Stop the boats and have a proper border policy? It's not fucking rocket science.
First duty of a functioning government that cares about its citizens is to ensure the physical safety of them. That means enforcing border quality control. Period.
I apologize if that's how it came across - I was connecting two examples of how our current context creates needless violence. It wasn't meant at all to be a 'whatabout'. I am agreeing that both are terrible and examples of larger systemic failures. To me, what's happening in the UK is an example of the failures of liberal democracy, while what's happening in Costa Rica is an example of the failure of autocracy - the unfulfilled promises of one and the emboldening of our worst impulses in the other.
Not a comparison to say one is worse/better/different than the other.
And realistically until there's a global effort - that will probably continue to happen. I live in a state in the US with robust social services. That leads us to hosting a large amount of undocumented immigrants who come here because they know they'll get health insurance and SNAP (food) benefits without needing to be a citizen. It's a perverse incentive to come here which leads to increased overall systems burden. The alternative, eliminating socialized health care and in-kind benefits, would adversely effect our own populace.
It may be worth considering citizenship requirements or maximums before benefits automatically end? I think it's a good time to revisit the limits of what progressive idealism can reasonably sustain, because the alternative is people setting homeless folks on fire, and that's probably not too far off in the US if DJT wins the election and moves forward with his mass-deportation plans.
Someone who's hungry and traumatized is my guess. It's fucked up that it happened.
Also - *behaviour* - your British is showing! (just being playful, I love how the English language has permutations influenced by culture)
how long until we're in the 'Children of Men' version of Britain?
That makes me upset as a voting democrat.
I have had major issues getting SNAP and medicaid in conservative states, even during years I was below the federal poverty line. One time it was because I couldn't find my original birth certificate, and couldn't afford to order a new one. Another time I was disqualified simply because I had a car title registered under my name.
I'm not trying to make a point, other than our immigration system needs a major reform. I think we should make sure all US citizens have health care before we start giving it for free to immigrants. Just socialize it already! FFS, we are so backwards on healthcare and education.
It should make us upset - my worry with our current body politic is the lack of willingness to hold members of one's own party accountable (or the party closest to one's voting preferences). We've become comfortable voting for the lesser of two evils, but uncomfortable criticizing the evil within one's own side of the dichotomy.
This is very true on both sides
The world is polarized more now than I can remember in the last 80 some years I have experienced.
I'm of the opinion that the internet is generally to blame for a variety of reasons, but particularly because it acts as conduit for the ultra wealthy to pit us against each other. Keep them looking left stage, while on right stage they line their pockets with a level of wealth and power we haven't seen since the days of monarchies.The world is polarized more now than I can remember in the last 80 some years I have experienced.
With the modern internet, it's almost effortless and instantaneous for them to influence people en masse.
The alternative is that we have forums like this one to cross-connect perspectives with less influence (theoretically) by those parties.
I've long felt that drug use is an pathway to intersect with a variety of social structures - from Yale to Jail as we used to say in the recovery community - and just as the elite can influence us plebs at scale, it cannot always focus in on the nitty gritty of peer to peer communication.
It's tricky to navigate this brave new world, but I appreciate the access we have to connecting across political ideologies, cultural backgrounds, and country of origin.
It's not all bad, but as Boards of Canada once opined: The Internet is Evil.
It's the same in the UK. The NHS is a free service, so we have 'health tourism' as a result.. where people deliberately fly over here to get treatment that they would either have to pay for or not even have available in their own country. On top of that you have a large settled immigrant base, primarily Muslim's, who can't even speak English after being here for years and so we have to fork out millions on translation services as well as slowing down the treatment queue for everyone else as a result.
Then on top of all that, you have a population that is so beaten down and unloved by the ruling class here, so poisoned by life, that we can't feasibly treat everyone to begin with let alone immigrants. Then on top of that we're not training up our own talent, or paying sufficiently to attract native workers, so we pilfer staff from foreign countries and staff lower level care based roles with people who can barely speak English.
In the event that I make it to 60 and we're still all here, and nothing has changed, which is unlikely in itself, I will be killing myself. There is no way in hell I'm going into old age and potentially spending my final moments in hospital or care surrounded by people who can't even communicate with me. Fuck. That.
I owe my social awareness to it. I could have spent decades trying to find the resources I have, or forced to travel far and wide to find obscure books and people. That's the positive side of the internet, it has reduced distance to zero.
The negative you covered. I mean technically we should have had the internet back in the 1920's with Tesla's Wardenclyffe system, and the system we have now is just DARPA's inverted, perverted,
No absolutely. That's the infuriating about all of this, these things are bloody terrible and clear indications of failures at the highest levels. I have no qualms about calling it a deliberate conspiracy, at least in the case of the UK, because incompetence like this should not be being replicated in parallel in other western nations simultaneously, which is what we can see with our eyes (UK, EU, USA, Canada, Auz, Nz).
Moreover, the actual fix to the problem is unbelievably simple, again especially in the UK; we're an island, you could have military vessels in our waters tomorrow and turn the boats away or tow them back - yes some may die in the process, but so be it if it serves to stop others from attempting it; people are dying anyway attempting it.
The thing is, we should have had the conservation in the UK back when Tony Blair started to flood the country by changing the rules up. It could have all been prevented by simply following a stringent immigration policy that requires you speak English after a set period, for example. It's bullshit. I had a friend who got a degree here but couldn't stay because he couldn't get a graduate salary above the £30k threshold and had to go back home, and yet there's people coming here who don't even want to work at all!
You could still affect those that are here now; if you have been here longer than 5 years, are claiming benefits and not a net tax contributor, and you can't pass an English literacy test, then you should be deported because you are clearly here to just milk the system. You could deport the massive number of foreign nationals in our prisons tomorrow. Etc.
I don't think we'll get the point of setting homeless people on fire, at least natural born citizens. Those who are stuffed up in hotels though.. well, the Southport incident showed just how close we came to setting the hotels on fire. In Ireland people have already been setting fire to places that would soon be housing immigrants. If the establishment actually enforced a deportation policy that would reduce the boiling pressure IMHO.. people are angry because they see nothing being done, not because they hate the immigrants - that sentiment is dwindling though, with every stabbing and violent incident.. which is unfortunate, but as I've said elsewhere when it comes down to self-preservation it's tough fucking luck I'm afraid, the native population has to look after its own regardless of how we ended up here.
Again, we should never have gotten to this point. This is ideological and geopolitical game playing by the ruling class for ulterior motives. They have deliberately censored and stifled any discussion going back decades using their weaponized 'political correctness' and complicit media. You only need look again to the Southport incident, we still don't know the motives of the killer and I'll bet money on it that they knew he was radicalized [Islam] but enforced a gag order to prevent serious societal disorder.
Behavior is the permutation. Color me surprised
The English language is such a ball ache, so convoluted.
I'm trying to find more info on that, seems off. The brief ICE report is all I can find, and the 2 news sites quoting that report. But it gives little info.
How much was his bail? Was some sort of chain of custody mistake made? Why was he released onto the streets instead of back to ERO?
My guess is either his bail was stupid low, or very high and paid off by gang buddies? And/or they mistakenly released him on the streets, which isn't that uncommon. FUBAR either way.
I'm guessing Massachusetts doesn't publicize their arrest/court records.
Oh, they're a sanctuary city. Here is an almost identical story with contextual info: https://www.foxnews.com/us/ice-find...-500-bond-after-being-charged-raping-child-ma
They ignored ICE and released him on $500 bond after raping a child... wtf?? $500?? Ignore the fact he's an alien, $500 is way too low for a raping a minor.
Furthermore MA law allows bail or bond to be withheld in the case of raping a minor.
They ignored ICE and released him on $500 bond after raping a child... wtf?? $500?? Ignore the fact he's an alien, $500 is way too low for a raping a minor.
Furthermore MA law allows bail or bond to be withheld in the case of raping a minor.
Mr. Krinkle
Bluelight Crew
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What's hilarious about the situation in the UK is that the woman (Rhiannon Skye Whyte) who was stabbed in the back of the neck with a screwdriver over some biscuits has gotten virtually no media coverage over the past week, when in another decade it would have been massive news.
And at the same time, the entire media spent days jerking off over this gangster dickhead Kaba who was shot by police literally two years ago. The media, the Mayor of London, many celebrities, we even had people protesting about it, about this "my son was an angel" bullshit.. trying to have a George Floyd moment. The police officer has a gang bounty put on his head and has gone into hiding.
Turns out Kaba was a notorious gangster. A serious gun toting murdering gangster. So, we spent a week having to listen to all that bullshit only to find out what everyone already knew.. meanwhile an innocent woman just becomes a statistic. Apparently being black is still higher in the oppression hierarchy than being a woman, or something. Fucking joke country.
And at the same time, the entire media spent days jerking off over this gangster dickhead Kaba who was shot by police literally two years ago. The media, the Mayor of London, many celebrities, we even had people protesting about it, about this "my son was an angel" bullshit.. trying to have a George Floyd moment. The police officer has a gang bounty put on his head and has gone into hiding.
Turns out Kaba was a notorious gangster. A serious gun toting murdering gangster. So, we spent a week having to listen to all that bullshit only to find out what everyone already knew.. meanwhile an innocent woman just becomes a statistic. Apparently being black is still higher in the oppression hierarchy than being a woman, or something. Fucking joke country.