I'm quitting methadone

[Jabberwocky]

Isnt this kind of like an out the pan into the fire kinda thing? I mean I'm guessing you got on methadone to get off heroin and now your getting on heroin to get off methadone. My question is where are you going to find the heroin? There is no more heroin. Heroin gone the way of the dodo. U mean your switching to fentanyl?

I think cj was talking about "heroin" heroin, meaning basically anything sold as "heroin." So in his situation there would likely be a lot of fent and who knows what else in the dope.

From having the pleasure of observing cj's process as all this evolves, I get the feeling that he isn't going to go into anything this serious half cocked. If he genuinely feels like he'll be able to find less harmful ways to control urges to use stuff like heroin, I've got confidence in his process.

To put things in a little perspective, cj has been through a lot with this whole thing over the last year, but he's also made a hell of a lot of progress in terms of accomplishing some of his goals. In particular I'm thinking about your opioid use. It seems like he's been able to get some quality time in stabilizing on methadone after going through some unpleasant stuff with the stimulant binge(s) and the psychosis/psychotic episode (I'm not sure if I'm describing it quite precisely, but you get the idea) that happened a ways back.

Regardless of whether he gets off methadone, he's been gaining some significant momentum in the right direction. I get the distinct feeling like he is continuing to get a better grasp of what does and doesn't work well for him in his efforts with this, so it doesn't surprise me that he is more ready now to take advantage of a shitty situation/supper opperunity than he would have been a year ago.

 

[Soso78]

Reducing 10ml a week will be a piece of piss while your still taking over 100ml
As it starts to get down to 80 70 60 it will be too much of a drop too quickly, you will prob find you just feel shit pretty much all the while.
If you drop 10ml a week the reduction percentage of the total dose keeps increasing.
10 ml out of 100 is easier than 10ml out of 20 as that's a 50% reduction.
If that makes sense.

 

[cj]

Thanks for the kind words and advice from everyone. My friend sells fent and u 4770 so no its not heroin but I dont really care on some level an opiate is an opiate. But I plan to stay away from that if I can. My new plan is too taper down low as possible them jump to Kratom or another weak short acting opiate if I can find enough of one.

But that's just idle speculation at this point as I am a LONG way from there at 160mg. It may be in my head but I felt slight anxiety and discomfort this afternoon. But weirdly I got a glow off my dose for the first time in months this morning. I think my body is telling me it needs a ltitle time to adjust. Still pushing for a week which is Monday to drop too 150 bit I am going to really listen to my body.

I feel motivated but like someone else said I don't want to jump and end up strung out on "heroin" again. I know this is going to be a brutal drawn out process but I am motivated right now. If I get down to a lower dose and loose motivation then I'll stay there for awhile at a different clinic. The one thing I know for certain is my days are numbered at my current clinic. My counselor told me today I have 3 months to show significant improvement which means passing UA and that ain't happening. There's another clinic owned by separate folks I plan to transfer to in the coming months. They have the same policy but I feel it will buy me time. My ultimate goal is to be moved out of state by August so I can get a medical green card and if I find a good clinic maybe I'll stay on longer.

Methadone saved my life and I'm scared to let go of it but Alabama is forcing my hand. If I move somewhere with a reasonabe policy I might stay on at a more reasonable dose. Regardless I'm tired of the side effects of high doses so coming down is win win as long as I don't relapse or hurt my mental health severly.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I noticed more and more regular glowing experienced throughout my taper too.

All your feelings about coming off methadone are totally normal. I mean, it will be a huge change (you've been on it for years after all). I definitely went through everything you've described in terms of how I felt when I thought to much about tapering.

 

[d3athadone]

So wait your not aloud to smoke weed on methadone? What kind of hick backward ass shit is that. I don't think you need a "geographical cure" I think you need to get the fuck outa hicks vill man that sounds awful!

I see people struggling with this health care shit and its just like another layer of fucked. Best of luck bro I'm sorry these so called healers are just a bunch of fat cats exploiting the system. Geographical cure to canada!

 

[Jabberwocky]

^exactly. Welcome to treatment in the South 8)

 

[PriestTheyCalledHim]

CJ, please stay safe and do not start using heroin, fent, u 4770, or any of those opioid research chemicals. Can you quit opiates cold turkey or in a detox or rehab, or go back onto suboxone?

 

[alpha_centauri]

Thanks for the kind words and advice from everyone. My friend sells fent and u 4770 so no its not heroin but I dont really care on some level an opiate is an opiate. But I plan to stay away from that if I can. My new plan is too taper down low as possible them jump to Kratom or another weak short acting opiate if I can find enough of one.

But that's just idle speculation at this point as I am a LONG way from there at 160mg. It may be in my head but I felt slight anxiety and discomfort this afternoon. But weirdly I got a glow off my dose for the first time in months this morning. I think my body is telling me it needs a ltitle time to adjust. Still pushing for a week which is Monday to drop too 150 bit I am going to really listen to my body.

I feel motivated but like someone else said I don't want to jump and end up strung out on "heroin" again. I know this is going to be a brutal drawn out process but I am motivated right now. If I get down to a lower dose and loose motivation then I'll stay there for awhile at a different clinic. The one thing I know for certain is my days are numbered at my current clinic. My counselor told me today I have 3 months to show significant improvement which means passing UA and that ain't happening. There's another clinic owned by separate folks I plan to transfer to in the coming months. They have the same policy but I feel it will buy me time. My ultimate goal is to be moved out of state by August so I can get a medical green card and if I find a good clinic maybe I'll stay on longer.

Methadone saved my life and I'm scared to let go of it but Alabama is forcing my hand. If I move somewhere with a reasonabe policy I might stay on at a more reasonable dose. Regardless I'm tired of the side effects of high doses so coming down is win win as long as I don't relapse or hurt my mental health severly.

Quit all drugs now while you are still alive and still can, otherwise you risk death from overdose, winding up in a mental hospital, or in a jail or prison or dead.

Do you even read and comprehend what you are writing and doing? How dangerous it is? You're in crisis mode and a danger to yourself. I read a post where you said you were going to check into a mental health facility, do this while you still are able to and are not out of control with the drugs like you always get in these threads when you post updates.

Does your family know that you are using heroin and other drugs?

 

[Jabberwocky]

I'm as certain as I can be that going inpatient to detox anywhere is going to end up causing more problems that it has the potential to solve. Down the road when he's about to jump off to 0mg, at that point going inpatient for detoxing wouldn't be a bad idea at all. But we're far, far off from that point ATM.

One should however also take into concern how most service providers in the OP's region are less than proficient in providing most the services they offer. Finding a place that would actually provide a basic quality of clinical care would probably be a challenge unless he were to go outside his region.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

CJ, please stay safe and do not start using heroin, fent, u 4770, or any of those opioid research chemicals. Can you quit opiates cold turkey or in a detox or rehab, or go back onto suboxone?

I always love to see you come out of the woodwork and post in a thread

Yeah, perhaps suboxone for the temporary interim is best. What do you think of that CJ?

 

[cj]

When I get down lower than sub is an option. Like I said I'm still at 160mg a day. This is all idle speculation until I get down to what 80mg? Maybe lower.

I appreciate the concern from some of you but there's no way on earth I'm willingly checking into a rehab or detox with a 2 year large methadone habit. The whole point of tapering is to get down to where I have more options. Most reputable rehabs and detoxs wouldn't take someone off my dose of methadone because it's dangerous physically but mostly mentally.

I got my ass kicked jumping off suboxone without a proper taper I refuse to do that to myself again. So for now it's slow and steady. I had a rough night last night was feeling anxiety and restless. I am hoping my body will adjust soon. It's worrying that a 6 percent dose drop is hurtin already but I'm going to ask for clonidine and a muscle relaxer next time I see my primary dictor. Otherwise I am going to blow through my kolonopin script.

My parents are supportive but I haven't told them about my taper. I don't need any outside pressure plus there is a lot going on with my grandmothers deteriorating health. So hopefully today is a better day then yesterday.

 

[alpha_centauri]

I'm as certain as I can be that going inpatient to detox anywhere is going to end up causing more problems that it has the potential to solve. Down the road when he's about to jump off to 0mg, at that point going inpatient for detoxing wouldn't be a bad idea at all. But we're far, far off from that point ATM.

One should however also take into concern how most service providers in the OP's region are less than proficient in providing most the services they offer. Finding a place that would actually provide a basic quality of clinical care would probably be a challenge unless he were to go outside his region.

Are you kidding me? You just posted horrible advice. So it's better for this guy who is in crisis mode to not go to rehab or detox for opiates or benzos and he should just instead use heroin and fent?

Have you even ever been to rehab or detox or known anyone who has? They have trained medical professionals there who will monitor him and look after him, and even if he's on a large dose of methadone he can still get off of it safely. I don't care what region or state he's in, you can do this no matter where you are but you have to make the decision to go to rehab/detox and you have to have a desire to get clean and sober, and quit all drugs. Smoking herb or using hash is not sobriety, and it will only lead him back to using the drugs he's addicted to.

Going to a rehab or detox is a far better thing to do than using heroin and fent. That's a sure recipe for dying and overdosing, and it's not going to help him get off of opiates.

 

[Jabberwocky]

No one is saying that it is better to use heroin, fent or RCs than going to detox or rehab. Whether or not I've experienced inpatient treatment has nothing to do with the OP's situation.

Why don't you ask the OP what his experiences of treatment have been where he lives so far? That might help you get a better idea of what his situation actually is, as opposed to assuming it's just like your own.

I'm not sure the OP would label their current situation as in "crisis mode." The situation is certainly forcing his hand in terms of what he might otherwise be doing with his treatment, but the OP has also clearly aware that their current situation posses at least as much promise as it does concern. There is no ticking time bomb scenario here either: he has six months to taper off methadone. That kind of taper, though not ideal, actually puts him in a very advantageous position once it actually comes time to jump off to 0mg.

Going inpatient (especially for 7-90 days) now, as opposed to at least waiting until he's completed his taper in six months, would be infinitely more difficult for any one person to manage than if he'd taken more care to come off the very powerful drug that methadone is. The withdrawal symptoms would be significantly more distressing if he were simply to detox from the high dose he's currently on. That is why I suggested that what you propose is not entirely appropriate in the OP's case. It probably wouldn't be such a bad idea to go inpatient for a seek of detox once he has tapered off methadone, assuming it's practical and whatnot.

Other things could be discussed, but this enough for now.

 

[alpha_centauri]

No one is saying that it is better to use heroin, fent or RCs than going to detox or rehab. Whether or not I've experienced inpatient treatment has nothing to do with the OP's situation.

Why don't you ask the OP what his experiences of treatment have been where he lives so far? That might help you get a better idea of what his situation actually is, as opposed to assuming it's just like your own.

I'm not sure the OP would label their current situation as in "crisis mode." The situation is certainly forcing his hand in terms of what he might otherwise be doing with his treatment, but the OP has also clearly aware that their current situation posses at least as much promise as it does concern. There is no ticking time bomb scenario here either: he has six months to taper off methadone. That kind of taper, though not ideal, actually puts him in a very advantageous position once it actually comes time to jump off to 0mg.

Going inpatient (especially for 7-90 days) now, as opposed to at least waiting until he's completed his taper in six months, would be infinitely more difficult for any one person to manage than if he'd taken more care to come off the very powerful drug that methadone is. The withdrawal symptoms would be significantly more distressing if he were simply to detox from the high dose he's currently on. That is why I suggested that what you propose is not entirely appropriate in the OP's case. It probably wouldn't be such a bad idea to go inpatient for a seek of detox once he has tapered off methadone, assuming it's practical and whatnot.

Other things could be discussed, but this enough for now.

Have you read this entire thread? Or the posts where the OP CJ wrote about how he's going to use heroin and fent instead of taking methadone or going to rehab?

You did recommend that he not go to rehab and that he should use heroin and fent in post #29:

I'm as certain as I can be that going inpatient to detox anywhere is going to end up causing more problems that it has the potential to solve. Down the road when he's about to jump off to 0mg, at that point going inpatient for detoxing wouldn't be a bad idea at all. But we're far, far off from that point ATM.

One should however also take into concern how most service providers in the OP's region are less than proficient in providing most the services they offer. Finding a place that would actually provide a basic quality of clinical care would probably be a challenge unless he were to go outside his region.

CJ is an actual person who is a polydrug addict and he is making the extremely foolish decision to not get help for his addictions and to use heroin and fent instead of checking into a rehab.

If the OP continues to use drugs or make the fatal and foolish decision to use heroin and fent instead of going to rehab, will either die, wind up in prison, or in a mental hospital. I hope his parents and relatives Baker act or have him committted to a mental hospital since he's a danger to himself, and he's shown that he cannot get off drugs himself.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Have you read this entire thread? Or the posts where the OP CJ wrote about how he's going to use heroin and fent instead of taking methadone or going to rehab?

Yeah. I also happened to read through the rest of the thread, to the subsequent posts where cj indicated that he had become interested and motivated to use kratom (and if that doesn't work buprenorphine) as opposed to a more dangerous opioid like heroin or fent:

If I go 10mg a week then 5mg a week after that I can be at 75mg by then if all goes the way I want it with my body. I'm gonna try and get some kratom in the coming weeks to flatten out any rough spots as I'm gonna have to go faster then I want too more than likely

I guess [hightlight]my plan as it stands today is taper as low as possible then jump to kratom. If that doesn't keep the cravings away and I relapse due to physical discimport then I'll get on sub and taper way down with it.[/highlight]

[...] Because at the end of the day I know I'll die if I get back on heroin and methadone is the only thung that has worked for me.

My friend sells fent and u 4770 so no its not heroin but I dont really care on some level an opiate is an opiate. But I plan to stay away from that if I can. My new plan is too taper down low as possible them jump to Kratom or another weak short acting opiate if I can find enough of one.

[...] I feel motivated but like someone else said I don't want to jump and end up strung out on "heroin" again. I know this is going to be a brutal drawn out process but I am motivated right now.

You did recommend that he not go to rehab and that he should use heroin and fent in post #29:

Yes, I did recommend he taper instead of going to rehab right now. Rehabs would demand he detox from the methadone, which without a proper taper will be difficult and uncomfortable (and there are other issues with just jumping into abstinence right now in cj's case). Totally unnecessarily so. There is no ticking time bomb here.

Did you notice where I have consistently suggested that rehab/detox would be such a bad idea when he's finished as much of a taper as is possible? So I haven't even been saying that the issue is whether or not he should go to rehab/detox. I've actually been saying the issue is when going to rehab/detox would be most appropriate.

The fact of the matter is, right now it's not very advisable (I mean, intentionally trying to use heroin to get off methadone or something would certainly be a far more problematic idea that getting immediate inpatient treatment, but that is not at all the current situation).

And no, nowhere have I stated he should start using heroin or fent. Not in the post you're quoting, not anywhere else in this thread. Please, show me where I tell him to use heroin and fent...

CJ is an actual person who is a polydrug addict and he is making the extremely foolish decision to not get help for his addictions and to use heroin and fent instead of checking into a rehab.

You seem to forget that cj is currently getting help, he is still part of a program where he works with a counselor/case manager, doctor and nurses. He is being held accountable by regular drug testing. He is getting monitored help organizing and maintaining his taper off the medication.

This might not be the ideal situation regarding the type of treatment they provide, you might not think it ideal, but cj has regularly expresses how it has been the right treatment for him, that it has saved his life.

This is particularly why it is so unfortunate the situation his clinic's/state's backwards policies has put him into.

If the OP continues to use drugs or make the fatal and foolish decision to use heroin and fent instead of going to rehab, will either die, wind up in prison, or in a mental hospital.

Thanks for reminding us. You don't seem to understand that that kind of confrontational shaming technique doesn't work very well. And that this is a harm reduction forum, or what the rainbow of harm reduction entails? Did you know that abstinence from harmful behavior is a core part of harm reduction?

I hope his parents and relatives Baker act or have him committted to a mental hospital since he's a danger to himself, and he's shown that he cannot get off drugs himself.

Yes. And while we're at it, we should also make sure we give him electroshock therapy for his mental illness. Or better yet, we could lobotomize him a little bit - he'd become so much more manageable then!

8)

 

[cj]

Wow where to begin. I would hardly call my situation a crisis. I've been suicidal before I've spent time on a phych ward so I know crisis this isn't it. As far as my parents not that it's anyone's business but they pay for my methadone and doctors appointments for benzos. They where against methadone at first but the proof has been in the pudding and they are big proponents of methadone now. I have used illicit opiates under 20 times in the 2 years I've been stable on methadone after 9 years of addiction that's a miracle in my book.

OK rehab. I was on suboxone for 5 years before methadone. My dose was 2mg some shit happened I got arrested and my lawyer cut a deal with the DA which included 30 days of rehab. The detox i went too didnt have any specialized plan for getting someone off long term maintenance. They just gave me a 5 day suboxone taper then cut me off. I didn't sleep for 12 days and was sick the entire 30 days i was in rehab. It was a waste because I couldn't work on my issues in the condition I was in. So I came home relapsed on heroin and was on a run until I got on methadone 2 years ago. That whole debacle set me back years. It also taught me a valuable lesson rehabs will say anything to get you in the door because once your there your stuck and your leverage is zero. So yeah my faith in rehabs is pretty fucking low. Also Alpha many rehabs will not take pepole who are on more than 80mg of methadone because it is dangerous mentally and they can't deal with someone in that deep of withdrawals. A hospital would be different I'm sure but why would I do that to myself or my family? It would vastly raise my risk of relapse as well as being unbelievabley expensive.

I'm not planning to get back on heroin once this taper ends. I am just going to see how I feel and make a decision about Kratom or buprenorphine. Much depends on how low I am able to taper. On that front I got good news yesterday I passed my last drug test so that bought me at least another month added to the 6 I already had. So I have 7 months to taper at worst.

Overall I have no plans to ever go to another inpatient rehab. I am not in crisis. I am just taking this taper day by day week by week. If there comes a time I am thinking of using heroin I'll pause or reverse the taper. Alpha maintenance is a different animal to normal illicit opiate use. There is less danger of mortality and morbidity which is plainly spelled out in research. I appreciate your concern your opinion is noted but I respectfully disagree with your assesment.

Every situation is different mine is a little more complicated then most. The plan is for another 10mg drop on Monday 47 hours from now. I feel stabilized at my current dose though I am expecting a bumpy couple days after this drop. I may even consider 10 days between drops going forward. A lot will depend on how I feel tommorow.

 

[Erikmen]

I have been through coming off of methadone. All I can say is that you should try to decrease but do it slowly or else it's going to be counterproductive from experience. Try that as slow as you can even though you feel right now that you can do it faster - thing about the long term results. Especially when you have to cut 5 mg at a time.

Hope you get that right and out of your system as time goes.

 

[simco]

Congrats on the clean drug test, cj. Must be a relief to get a little more breathing room.

I've been on the sidelines with this post, but I'm following it carefully and wishing you the best every day.

Sim

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Wow where to begin. I would hardly call my situation a crisis. I've been suicidal before I've spent time on a phych ward so I know crisis this isn't it. As far as my parents not that it's anyone's business but they pay for my methadone and doctors appointments for benzos. They where against methadone at first but the proof has been in the pudding and they are big proponents of methadone now. I have used illicit opiates under 20 times in the 2 years I've been stable on methadone after 9 years of addiction that's a miracle in my book.

OK rehab. I was on suboxone for 5 years before methadone. My dose was 2mg some shit happened I got arrested and my lawyer cut a deal with the DA which included 30 days of rehab. The detox i went too didnt have any specialized plan for getting someone off long term maintenance. They just gave me a 5 day suboxone taper then cut me off. I didn't sleep for 12 days and was sick the entire 30 days i was in rehab. It was a waste because I couldn't work on my issues in the condition I was in. So I came home relapsed on heroin and was on a run until I got on methadone 2 years ago. That whole debacle set me back years. It also taught me a valuable lesson rehabs will say anything to get you in the door because once your there your stuck and your leverage is zero. So yeah my faith in rehabs is pretty fucking low. Also Alpha many rehabs will not take pepole who are on more than 80mg of methadone because it is dangerous mentally and they can't deal with someone in that deep of withdrawals. A hospital would be different I'm sure but why would I do that to myself or my family? It would vastly raise my risk of relapse as well as being unbelievabley expensive.

I'm not planning to get back on heroin once this taper ends. I am just going to see how I feel and make a decision about Kratom or buprenorphine. Much depends on how low I am able to taper. On that front I got good news yesterday I passed my last drug test so that bought me at least another month added to the 6 I already had. So I have 7 months to taper at worst.

Overall I have no plans to ever go to another inpatient rehab. I am not in crisis. I am just taking this taper day by day week by week. If there comes a time I am thinking of using heroin I'll pause or reverse the taper. Alpha maintenance is a different animal to normal illicit opiate use. There is less danger of mortality and morbidity which is plainly spelled out in research. I appreciate your concern your opinion is noted but I respectfully disagree with your assesment.

Every situation is different mine is a little more complicated then most. The plan is for another 10mg drop on Monday 47 hours from now. I feel stabilized at my current dose though I am expecting a bumpy couple days after this drop. I may even consider 10 days between drops going forward. A lot will depend on how I feel tommorow.

You didn't sleep for 12 days? The longest I've gone is 7, and I was on meth. 8( I imagine it was quite unpleasant?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

If the OP continues to use drugs or make the fatal and foolish decision to use heroin and fent instead of going to rehab, will either die, wind up in prison, or in a mental hospital. I hope his parents and relatives Baker act or have him committted to a mental hospital since he's a danger to himself, and he's shown that he cannot get off drugs himself.

If you continue to derail OP's thread I'll issue a warning. Stop posting passive aggressively.