IM heroin vs IV heroin (poor veins caused a miss)

[n0use]

I am on methadone (85mg) and have quite a high tolerance to heroin. When I do use I typically shoot it by the .5g (white powder heroin from NE part of USA) - typically this is enough to cut through the methadone and actually get me high. Often I will do a .5 and then wait two or three hours and do another .5 (at which point I'm very high).

My problem is I have shit veins. I just did a .5g shot and missed 2/3 of it, which I suppose would now count as a subcutaneous injection (or Intra Muscular if you prefer, although I think subcut is probably more apt, since where I missed was very near the top of the skin on my hand).

My dilemma is - I want to get a rush! I want to get a real IV shot. I have another half gram and I can't decide if I should wait 15-30 minutes to see if I feel the first shot come on, or if I just go for the glory and bang up the rest of it right now.

Compared to IV injection what is the bioavailability of IM/subcutaneous heroin? I think its pretty obvious that the bioavailability of an IV shot is 100% (please correct me if I'm wrong). Will all the dope that was missed in the previous hit me? In my experience an IM shot / a miss would get me well (back in the good ol' days before methadone maintenance..) but it wouldn't get me high like an IV shot.

Is there a distinct difference between how much of the dope will make its way back to my brain (and those hungry little Mu receptors) between an IV shot / IM shot, accounting for time? I've had many people tell me the only difference is the lack of rush, which is obviously true. However..its been my subjective experience that its not JUST the rush which you don't get but also that the shot in general is weaker. But I'm not sure how much of that is psychosomatic.

Anybody got the straight dope on this? (pun intended)

 

[aq.]

homeless > bdd

 

[deidara]

I feel for ya for having shitty veins, luckily I was blessed with one fatty that hasn't gone out on me yet. But really there are more veins in your arm than you think. I would suggest looking at a detailed picture of the cardiovascular system and find a fat one near the surface somewhere. Sometimes you have to dig deep8( but imo its worth it to get that rush. The main difference I've noticed between IV and IM is you lose the rush. And it takes like 2-3 minutes to hit you instead of 20 seconds.

 

[Crankinit]

Is there a distinct difference between how much of the dope will make its way back to my brain (and those hungry little Mu receptors) between an IV shot / IM shot, accounting for time? I've had many people tell me the only difference is the lack of rush, which is obviously true. However..its been my subjective experience that its not JUST the rush which you don't get but also that the shot in general is weaker. But I'm not sure how much of that is psychosomatic.

Firstly, I feel your pain with the shitty veins. I just cannot reliably hit anything other than the crook of my elbow, everything else is too deep and/or thin and/or prone to rolling. If I go further than an inch from the crease in the crook, I end up with missed shots, split veins, shots that pull back fine but then leak out into a big lump no matter how slowly I press the plunger, or just a whole bunch of holes and an arm covered in blood because I can't hit anything at all. Same goes for my legs. Eventually I gave up and just applied the best HR I could to my elbows, but they've still taken a beating, I suspect portions of the right elbow are collapsed permanently, and the last time I shot up (morphine in the left), it just leaked out. I could feel the shot leak out into my elbow muscles and joints, like someone pouring a cup of water on my elbow inside my body. Weird feeling, though I still got most of the effect. But that's life - certainly motivates me to stick to my subs and not get on.

Anyway, enough vein bitching, to the point - with a proper IM shot (IE: injected deep into a muscle intentionally), the difference in BA is minimal (you could argue maybe a few percent, but nothing anyone would notice). Of course the rush is missing, and because it kicks in over a period of 10 - 20 minutes instead of instantly, the high tends to be slightly longer and also to peak slightly lower. In other words, you get the same amount of heroin, just a little more spread out. I have extensive experience with this, for obvious reasons.

Missed shots are different. I think the problem is bruising, swelling, they often happen in places where veins are already in bad shape and a bit mangled, so your H might get caught up in all this mess and take even longer to kick in, meaning it will spread out in the same manner as the IM shot, but substantially further, leading to a substantially lower peak in the high (although also in theory, an equivocally longer duration - so it should keep you well longer, hypothetically).

Although if you're going to IM, please use a wheel filter. You can order them online quite cheaply. Doing so without is just asking for an abscess.

Oh and read up a bit on good areas to IM, don't want to accidentally split a vein or hit a nerve or an artery.

 

[JackiePeyton]

Sometimes there is a vein hiding in plain site. I had terrible veins too. I also had been a waitress for a long time. I had a wee little bump on my inner knee, never thought much of it, could only see it standing up. Well damn if I didn't realize it was a big fat vein. All I had to do was jab that needle straight in there standing up. No more problems ever. Check your veins in your legs while standing.