Illicit tablet market in Victoria, 2004-2007

[Keseyman05]

Does it not just come down to money? As previously mentioned it's not easy getting base chemicals into Oz and therefore it gets cut to stupidly small amounts. I took my first pill in 89 at a rave in South London, I took one and after 30 minutes of not particularly nice rushing was on the go for the next 12 hours.
After returning to Oz in 99 and having about 30 or so pilling experiences here I just gave up on getting decent pills compared to what i had been used to in the UK, I especially hated anything flecked, I must have tried about 200-300 different types of pills during 8 years in the UK and not a one was ever flecked.
I'm heading over again in 2 weeks and hoping to "dabble" again, at least if they are crap over there you've spent f... all moneywise to find that out!

 

[ayjay]

^12 hours? Probably not MDMA - sounds like methamphetamine...

As has been pointed out - the most common adulterants found in 07 MDMA-containing pills were MDA and MDEA (about 90% of case) - not necessarily a bad thing... better than getting wizz or K in your pills anyway. So the pills are on the whole getting better - if that's not your personal experience, switch dealers or take a break.

Kingpin - your suggestion that the police are making a dent in the drug trade is laughable (sorry - no personal insult intended) - policing definitely affects the way drug markets operate, but they sure as shit don't stop them from operating. Busts are a cost of business for drug importers in the same way shoplifting is a cost of business for Kmart.

 

[cassandragemini]

what exactly do they mean by 25%? is this the amount of mdma in the pill relative to weight? obviously there is going to be binders in pills so.. i mean i just dont really understand how they measured it, perhaps if they had mdma powder/crystals that was 25% pure by weight i could grapple it, which i understand is pretty unlikely unless the cook is a total retard.

 

[Tronica]

what exactly do they mean by 25%? is this the amount of mdma in the pill relative to weight?

I believe this is correct. So, clearly, it would not be possible to have a pill with 100% MDMA as this would contain no binders and would not be in pill form. You can see this from the 'maximum purity' in any one year, which does not get near 100%.

If anyone out there knows more, feel free to correct me!

Re the effect of supply inventions on the market - I think they do have some effect. Why else do Australian pills cost so much more than in Europe? Because it's harder to get them and the precursor chemicals into the country, because we are an island with strict border control and we have relatively tough laws and regulations around these things. Of course stuff is still imported and made here, but not to the extent it is in other parts of the world with less policing and less regulation.

You can read more about the Oz ecstasy market here - an interesting read I thought!

 

[ayjay]

^Yes they have an effect - just not a very strong one.

As far as prices - this is a complex issue and not simply about supply. For one thing - all drugs in Australia are by and large more expensive than in other countries. This is as much to do with what people are prepared to pay, as it is about difficulty of procuring said drugs. Ecstasy is an interesting example - the average price of ecstasy hasn't really changed in 20 odd years, stricter border controls notwithstanding..

 

[mushi mushi 88]

I have found that the price of ecstasy has dropped in the last 4 years about 10 dollars in Brisbane and I see it dropping another 5 dollars very soon... People are getting cheaper pill's all the time I have found but I also have noticed that pretty much every pill you get these days are fucking shit... I don't do pill's and that is the reason why because they are all crap.

I have found that what people call high dose pills these days are actually just medium compared to the pill's 2 - 4 years ago. What is up with people putting lower doses into them? Aren't they being made in our backyards these days, just like meth, and hence not needing to put low doses in them...

But I guess you get those dealers who will buy say 10 000 pill's of a high dose pill or even just mediums one's and say they cut it up a little so that they can repress 15 000 or even 20 000 pill's just so they can make a bit more money but not realize that doing this will lead to such things as crime because people will need more to get a hit.... Or they will even move away from that drug onto other one's because the quality is just getting so crap....!

 

[OND43X]

^Yes they have an effect - just not a very strong one.

As far as prices - this is a complex issue and not simply about supply. For one thing - all drugs in Australia are by and large more expensive than in other countries. This is as much to do with what people are prepared to pay, as it is about difficulty of procuring said drugs. Ecstasy is an interesting example - the average price of ecstasy hasn't really changed in 20 odd years, stricter border controls notwithstanding..

i dont agree with you. xtc here has halfed here in sydney in price in the last 6 years or so.i think also the quality on a whole worldwide has decreased since canada became the main xtc expoter. i remember being in canada in 06 and trying some pills over there and thinking, "fuck these are cheap but there not that good, its good we dont have pills of this low quality back in australia" lol now canada is where australia gets its mdma.

[EDIT: Stop posting prices, last warning. hoptis]

 

[phase_dancer]

what exactly do they mean by 25%? is this the amount of mdma in the pill relative to weight?

A standard analytical result usually refers to the weight/weight or weight/volume amount of active substance in a given sample e.g. 0.25mg/1mg or 1g/ml. This may be stated as a percentage, but analytical measures and methods including procedural parameters should also be included in the report e.g. methods of extraction and analysis, weight of the pill etc, and where appropriate, relative and absolute error of measurement.

However, tablet reports from forensic and similar labs don't seem to release this information to the public, possibly due to a fear they might inadvertently promote a particular pill. Often, the percentage of MDMA stated in a sample relates to the total amount of active ingredients, which, for particular intents and purposes previously alluded to, may be regarded as more appropriate information to release.

Still, I also believe Tronica is correct when she says the amount of MDMA in the above reports is related solely to the weight of the pill. Again, this prevents users from instantly knowing just how much MDMA is in the pill, at least without having the said sample and weighing it.

It's is also potentially confusing, as many people would interpret this to mean that a pill with 25% MDMA was not pure when in fact the MDMA could be 98% pure but only present as 25% of the weight of the pill. However, it could also mean the 25% percent MDMA was only 80% pure, with 'leftovers' from the synthesis etc. accounting for the other 20%.

So these figures don't reveal everything. A major gripe for me is that it's these impurities from synthesis that are most concerning. Several MDMA synthesis intermediates and a few starting materials are significantly toxic - safrole is regarded as a probable human carcinogen - yet this information is never included in publicly released reports. I'd be willing to bet these impurities still aren't even qualitatively analysed in most cases, as the work load for the lab would increase markedly.

If we were to be given full descriptive details of each pill or powder sample along with percentage of each active ingredient and impurity present, users could then make an informed decision. This also needs to include variations in levels from several samples from a given batch. Giving users only half the information, does not in my opinion allow users to make an 'informed decision'. Giving users only half the information is designed principally so it acts as a deterrent. Just how effective it is remains to be seen.

 

[ayjay]

i dont agree with you. xtc here has halfed here in sydney in price in the last 6 years or so.

In other words you DO agree with me - I was arguing against the effectiveness of supply control measures; a previous poster had suggested that supply interdiction was working, and that you could see that in the increase in prices. As you and others rightly point out - prices have actually dropped. I guess I'm wary of quality of cheaper product - the gooduns still cost much the same now as 20 years ago - and that is a reduction in price in real terms...

 

[OND43X]

wellt then i agree with u heaps! price has gone down and so has quality. but u have to expect that. why would some1 keep making something of a high quality if there going to get less for it. and paying less makes the person think that the buyer wont mind to buy two or three for alot cheaper

 

[Tronica]

Giving users only half the information, does not in my opinion allow users to make an 'informed decision'. Giving users only half the information is designed principally so it acts as a deterrent. Just how effective it is remains to be seen.

I share your concerns. I personally don't see how knowing about general trends in purity is supposed to aid drug users in making informed decisions about a specific instance of obtaining or consuming a specific pill. It might make people more aware in general - which as you mention, may have some general deterrence effect... but it doesn't really sit right for me.

I'm glad that Vic Pol and NDARC have written and released this information, absolutely. It's a good start and it was good to update the 2004 report with recent information. An improvement would be having a real idea of the actual weight of MDMA and other ingredients. Perhaps this is a feasible idea for the future?

[insert idea light bulb]

 

[OND43X]

e's are dieing and the ppl making them and the ppl selling them in mass no this.. thats why they just seem to get cheaper n cheaper every time i buy.

[EDIT: No prices. Lil Angel15]