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I'ld like to hear from anyone who uses an opioid to fight depression.

crazyhairman said:
Well, chronic pain can most definitely cause depression on its own.
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It gets circular. Sometimes I think I'ld have a happier mental state, if I wasn't so achey, especially when I can't physically do as much in a day as I used to. On the other hand, I often think I wouldn't pay so much attention to my pains and aches, if I weren't depressed. I'm sure both are true. I can get more done in a day, by taking more doses of Vicodin. This was real apparent when I did more gardening. I'ld get such satisfaction when I had the unruly rose bushes beautifully trimmed, which I could only do with extra doses of Vicodin. It is also true that taking an opioid definitely lowered my pain threshhold. Once you get used to the comforting effect of the opioid, you won't feel okay without it. My tablets don't help as much as they used to, due to tolerance, but I still move around more easily after taking a tablet. I was put on an anti-inflammatory (Indocin) that was a lot more effective than hydrocodone. But I developed bleeding ulcers, so I can never take Indocin again. (It's an NSAID.) Non-opioid pain killers (even OTCs like aspirin, Motrin or Tylenol) are actually more toxic in some ways than opioids.
 
someguyontheinternet said:
I've also experienced the antidepressant effects of opioids. I actually think it may at least be partially related to the kappa opioid receptor, ketamine is an antagonist at kappa and iirc so is kratom
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It's definitely more related to dopamine and to a lesser extent serotonin release, and other related downstream effects. Most pharma and popular street opioids have negligible effect on KOR (kappa opioid receptor).

Salvia mainly and strongly effects the KOR, and is very well known as an acutely dysphoric drug. Ketamine's benefit as an antidepressant has nothing to do with activating kappa as far as I know.
 
Snafu in the Void said:
It's definitely more related to dopamine and to a lesser extent serotonin release, and other related downstream effects. Most pharma and popular street opioids have negligible effect on KOR (kappa opioid receptor).

Salvia mainly and strongly effects the KOR, and is very well known as an acutely dysphoric drug. Ketamine's benefit as an antidepressant has nothing to do with activating kappa as far as I know.
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I was talking about antagonism at kappa. There are dynorphin projections to the ventral tegmental area and the dorsal raphe nucleus and those regions are highly involved in affective state, the DRN being highly serotonergic
 
someguyontheinternet said:
I was talking about antagonism at kappa. There are dynorphin projections to the ventral tegmental area and the dorsal raphe nucleus and those regions are highly involved in affective state, the DRN being highly serotonergic
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Right, but most opioids are not KOR antagonists, they act as light agonists. Buprenorphine being the exception. (To my knowledge, never really looked into KOR that much)
 
Opiates affect the way your brain functions desert. All users start to experience the need a pill or hit to get out of bed problem etc. I was on scripted opiates for twenty years and didn't even know I had depression they were so effective in that regard. I functioned normally and even went to the gym on huge amounts of mprphine.
Now doctors know more about the damage they do to body .sometimes permanent they're obviously a lot harder to get.
I fell into the trap a few times of self prescribing but it's the kid in a sweet shop effrct. Why wait twelve hours .I'll just buy more etc. Stronger etc.
If it matters to how u read this yes I am just starting reduction yet again.

Like snafu said u have two choices keep taking more and more till u damage ureself or go skint. Or come off them and try to address the underlying problem. Many of us use for the numbing / serotonin boosting effect but if he better off on ecstasy than opiates long term. (Not a recommendation).

I found kratom had its own health affects but yes it's a boost of energy and serotonin that some ppl find enough after the wds . As long as it doesn't start things off again.

Its hard man. Try as many new things as I can for the underlying issue but address the coming off then first.

Hope this helps .any q feel free.

Phall.. Uk
 
I agree completely with the above post.

I think Kratom can help you stretch out your doses of hydros that way you can treat yourself to 20mg and not feel bad about it...or use it to aid with withdrawal, your choice.

and amanita gummies(I'm always going on about these, I'm sure lots are exhausted lol) have helped me immensely with my anxiety and depression. But maybe you should try even low dose psychedelic trip..probably for your circumstance I would look into micro dosing psilocybin mushrooms as this has proven to be a great tool to fight daily chronic anxiety, depression, and I think even chronic migraine?

Either way I hope this was somewhat helpful..there is always more substances out there that can be had that may make all the difference in the world to you..as I joined this forum I have learned great things about MEMANTINE(can't fuckin wait to try this seems like it's right up my alley) or phenibut(tried one 200mg dose and was WAY too much for me, still have a shit ton laying around that I need to try again with much lower dosage.
 
Microdosing is likely no better than placebo, or rather the effect that people get from microdosing 2a agonists could be well explained by the placebo effect. People take something and expect to feel better so they do, not due to the action of the drug

elifesciences.org

Self-blinding citizen science to explore psychedelic microdosing

The anecdotally reported benefits of psychedelics microdosing can be explained by the placebo effect.
elifesciences.org elifesciences.org
 
Fun fact, a few decades back before all the anti-opium laws, both extract of opium and morphine were not uncommonly used in psychiatric practice to treat acute depressive and panic states. It was a fairly standard clinical practice, and also already much debated at the time.

The crucial factor for effective treatment without encouraging addictive behaviour was generally agreed to be two things, 1. do not extend treatment beyond the acute phase and 2. patients whose depression is reactive (in response to life events or emotional instability) rather than endogenous (neurochemical imbalance) are poor candidates.
 
phall said:
Opiates affect the way your brain functions desert. All users start to experience the need a pill or hit to get out of bed problem etc. I was on scripted opiates for twenty years and didn't even know I had depression they were so effective in that regard. I functioned normally and even went to the gym on huge amounts of mprphine.
Now doctors know more about the damage they do to body .sometimes permanent they're obviously a lot harder to get.
I fell into the trap a few times of self prescribing but it's the kid in a sweet shop effrct. Why wait twelve hours .I'll just buy more etc. Stronger etc.
If it matters to how u read this yes I am just starting reduction yet again.

Like snafu said u have two choices keep taking more and more till u damage ureself or go skint. Or come off them and try to address the underlying problem. Many of us use for the numbing / serotonin boosting effect but if he better off on ecstasy than opiates long term. (Not a recommendation).

I found kratom had its own health affects but yes it's a boost of energy and serotonin that some ppl find enough after the wds . As long as it doesn't start things off again.

Its hard man. Try as many new things as I can for the underlying issue but address the coming off then first.

Hope this helps .any q feel free.

Phall.. Uk
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Thanks, Phall. I appreciate the input from all of you. Thanks for taking the time to read my posts and share your experience.

I'm in a bad way mentally right now. I haven't been going nuts with taking my prescription hydros ahead of time . . . because I don't want to run out and withdraw. I did slide in an extra dose 3 or 4 times, but I'll stretch out my doses when the end of the month's supply is drawing near.

My problem is depression. It's gotten really out of hand. Popping a hydro helps me feel a little better, but it's not a big boost and doesn't last long. I don't want to sound dramatic, but I think often about suicide. There's no one big problem that I can point to. I'm alone almost all the time, and I have had little interest in doing anything about that because I feel like too much of a misfit.

I'm going days without leaving my house or even getting dressed. My place is becoming messy because I don't clean up after myself, like in the kitchen. I just want to lie down. I look forward only to sleeping. I'm nothing like who I used to be. Getting professional help was something I did for years. It never helped me. I'm so sick of trying. I don't know how I'm going to end up. It just doesn't look good. I'm embarrassed for anyone to even see the condition I'm in. That's the worst - feeling just ashamed of myself.
 
i did, then it turned into a horrendous fentanyl addiction. there are far more sustainable ways to battle depression. you just end up chasing a dragon and having a 20 stone monkey on your back if you’re using opiates/opioids.


i will say, kratom was quite an interesting one as a few alkaloids have anti-depressant qualities in rats, so there’s that! i still take kratom daily but exercise, sunlight & good diet battle my depression these days. i never nap anymore due to existential dread, and my quality of life is wonderful post-addiction
 
DesertHarp said:
Thanks, Phall. I appreciate the input from all of you. Thanks for taking the time to read my posts and share your experience.

I'm in a bad way mentally right now. I haven't been going nuts with taking my prescription hydros ahead of time . . . because I don't want to run out and withdraw. I did slide in an extra dose 3 or 4 times, but I'll stretch out my doses when the end of the month's supply is drawing near.

My problem is depression. It's gotten really out of hand. Popping a hydro helps me feel a little better, but it's not a big boost and doesn't last long. I don't want to sound dramatic, but I think often about suicide. There's no one big problem that I can point to. I'm alone almost all the time, and I have had little interest in doing anything about that because I feel like too much of a misfit.

I'm going days without leaving my house or even getting dressed. My place is becoming messy because I don't clean up after myself, like in the kitchen. I just want to lie down. I look forward only to sleeping. I'm nothing like who I used to be. Getting professional help was something I did for years. It never helped me. I'm so sick of trying. I don't know how I'm going to end up. It just doesn't look good. I'm embarrassed for anyone to even see the condition I'm in. That's the worst - feeling just ashamed of myself.
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HI , I have battled depression for most of my adult life and I am teetering on 57yo. In retrospect, I am quite sure that the very same afflicted me as a child, but this wal way before Prozac. I may not can give any 'really WISE' words of comfort but I can tell you a little of my story in hopes that it may help somewhat. I have been in pain since I was around 12 yo, but doctors would just call it growing pains. As an adult, it was labeled either "chronic fatigue syndrom' or fibromyalgia. These are just catch all words to cover fwhat they dont know. I have definitely taken my share of hydros, tramadols, tylenol #3, #4, cough syrup, all of the SSRI's. I am in a hole and that means that I am not eligible for any type of government health care and I cant afford to pay out of pocket. So, I never go to the doctor at all and try to manage my pain and depression illegally. Through the course of my life to this point, I have found 1 thing that makes me feel better and that is volunteering. Take the opioids for depression if you have to and pleasse do not feel guilty about it because you are the only one that has to live in your body. Take your hydros and do some volunteer work. I guarantee you that it will help in some way. Please, give it a try before ending your precious life.
 
DesertHarp said:
My problem is depression. It's gotten really out of hand. Popping a hydro helps me feel a little better, but it's not a big boost and doesn't last long. I don't want to sound dramatic, but I think often about suicide. There's no one big problem that I can point to. I'm alone almost all the time, and I have had little interest in doing anything about that because I feel like too much of a misfit.
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Sounds tough, my friend. I know you said you have back issues, but are you able to do some exercise? That's been the biggest single relief for my problems. I started lifting weights and felt much better within months. With a back problem, weights may be out of the question for now, but what about walking even, or cycling? It sucked for me at first, but once I saw/felt the gains I was all in.

I don't really like suggesting more drugs, but for treatment resistant depression, ketamine may also be something to investigate.
 
tokayeahok said:
i did, then it turned into a horrendous fentanyl addiction. there are far more sustainable ways to battle depression. you just end up chasing a dragon and having a 20 stone monkey on your back if you’re using opiates/opioids.


i will say, kratom was quite an interesting one as a few alkaloids have anti-depressant qualities in rats, so there’s that! i still take kratom daily but exercise, sunlight & good diet battle my depression these days. i never nap anymore due to existential dread, and my quality of life is wonderful post-addiction
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That's great that you were able to turn your life around. I wonder if Kratom might help me out a little. I guess there's only one way to find out. Years ago I was put on a bunch of psychotropics. The stuff was useless. I'm not looking to get more dependent than I already am. My chronic problem with depression has just gotten way worse. I thought I had it in hand and was managing it fairly well. Then it escalated.
 
angie66 said:
HI , I have battled depression for most of my adult life and I am teetering on 57yo. In retrospect, I am quite sure that the very same afflicted me as a child, but this wal way before Prozac. I may not can give any 'really WISE' words of comfort but I can tell you a little of my story in hopes that it may help somewhat. I have been in pain since I was around 12 yo, but doctors would just call it growing pains. As an adult, it was labeled either "chronic fatigue syndrom' or fibromyalgia. These are just catch all words to cover fwhat they dont know. I have definitely taken my share of hydros, tramadols, tylenol #3, #4, cough syrup, all of the SSRI's. I am in a hole and that means that I am not eligible for any type of government health care and I cant afford to pay out of pocket. So, I never go to the doctor at all and try to manage my pain and depression illegally. Through the course of my life to this point, I have found 1 thing that makes me feel better and that is volunteering. Take the opioids for depression if you have to and pleasse do not feel guilty about it because you are the only one that has to live in your body. Take your hydros and do some volunteer work. I guarantee you that it will help in some way. Please, give it a try before ending your precious life.
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I'm sorry you can't access proper healthcare. For years I had no health insurance because it was so expensive. Luckily my health was good during those years. Now I have Medicare, so I get what I need. But psych treatment was never very helpful. I take an antidepressant, which proved better than nothing. Over the past two years I have been getting treated for bleeding ulcers. (Blood transfusions and iron infusions.) I think they've healed up. I would be willing to give some time to volunteering. I need something constructive to do that gets me around other human beings. I might feel less bad about myself, if I were getting out and being useful somewhere.
 
swilow said:
Sounds tough, my friend. I know you said you have back issues, but are you able to do some exercise? That's been the biggest single relief for my problems. I started lifting weights and felt much better within months. With a back problem, weights may be out of the question for now, but what about walking even, or cycling? It sucked for me at first, but once I saw/felt the gains I was all in.

I don't really like suggesting more drugs, but for treatment resistant depression, ketamine may also be something to investigate.
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Thanks for your post. Since it's been so hot, I haven't wanted to do anything. This weather will change. I think my back got worse from lack of doing anything. If I can get myself up and out of the house, any kind of moving around helps me.
 
DesertHarp said:
That's great that you were able to turn your life around. I wonder if Kratom might help me out a little. I guess there's only one way to find out. Years ago I was put on a bunch of psychotropics. The stuff was useless. I'm not looking to get more dependent than I already am. My chronic problem with depression has just gotten way worse. I thought I had it in hand and was managing it fairly well. Then it escalated.
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have you considered ketamine therapy?

it’s done a lot for a lot of people who aren’t traditionally helped by standard SSRIs/SNRIs
 
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