I'ld like to hear from anyone who uses an opioid to fight depression.

[Kellsee]

Finally we have someone with Tourette here who can confirm that opioids help against that condition. That's exactly what the author of opioids in mental illness wrote but it sounded rather hypothetical to me. We have the first anecdotal evidence now.

I was just being silly to help yall laugh lol but I should have read more of the thread first. That was rude of me. I’m sorry. I need to remember that this is serious stuff sometimes.

I’ve not read all 11 pages but I’ve read enough now to know some of the factors involved and the issues you’re having.

I don’t wanna repeat things yall have already talked about. But has anyone mentioned how opioids affect your dopamine base line and the receive/ reward circuitry in your brain? Or anhedonia? That and the effects from having low dopamine can mimic the same symptoms of depression.

Our brains begin to down-regulate our own dopamine production and transmission in order to compensate for how the opiates are affecting our brain's reward pathway to ease our pain by making us feel pleasure. Pleasure and pain are processed in the same part of the brain and work on opposite sides of that balance. This means there is a cost for pleasure. That cost is pain aka depression….anhedonia



Supplements can be helpful for some people

L phenylalanine which is a precursor to dopamine and l tyrosine

Magnesium…. magnesium threonate is more for cognitive health….. magnesium glycinate for relaxation and muscle support but both are beneficial for dopamine replenish

 

[someguyontheinternet]

There are presynaptic kappa receptors in the NAc on the dopaminergic terminals that project from the VTA. Increases in dynorphin signaling are thought to cause reduced release of dopaminergic vesicles through hyperpolarization of the presynaptic terminal. Many drugs of abuse, particularly ones that increase dopamine release in the NAc have been shown to increase dynorphin signaling. This is a major player in the signaling pathway leading to anhedonia and its the reason that kappa antagonists are under investigation for substance abuse disorders and depression

 

[Jen X]

For me opioids works great for depression as long as i have a steady supply and don't take a weeks worth in a day. I've tried mirtazipine and it helps me sleep but does nothing for depression. Morphine or hydromorph makes me feel great. Tolerance and abuse is the only down sides to using it as an antidepressant .

 

[DesertHarp]

I was just being silly to help yall laugh lol but I should have read more of the thread first. That was rude of me. I’m sorry. I need to remember that this is serious stuff sometimes.

I’ve not read all 11 pages but I’ve read enough now to know some of the factors involved and the issues you’re having.

I don’t wanna repeat things yall have already talked about. But has anyone mentioned how opioids affect your dopamine base line and the receive/ reward circuitry in your brain? Or anhedonia? That and the effects from having low dopamine can mimic the same symptoms of depression.

Our brains begin to down-regulate our own dopamine production and transmission in order to compensate for how the opiates are affecting our brain's reward pathway to ease our pain by making us feel pleasure. Pleasure and pain are processed in the same part of the brain and work on opposite sides of that balance. This means there is a cost for pleasure. That cost is pain aka depression….anhedonia



Supplements can be helpful for some people

L phenylalanine which is a precursor to dopamine and l tyrosine

Magnesium…. magnesium threonate is more for cognitive health….. magnesium glycinate for relaxation and muscle support but both are beneficial for dopamine replenish

Thank you for explaining about the dopamine and the down regulating. In 2016, I stopped taking hydrocodone for a few weeks. At first, all my pains and aches came back with a vengence. I believe the pills had lowered my pain threshhold. But that changed over the few weeks. That over-sensitivity went away.

 

[DesertHarp]

Well, I see I'm far from alone in using an opioid to try and battle depression.

From the scientific info posted above, I might be just aggravating my problems. Thanks for explaining that. It's food for thought, but I don't see me giving up Vicodin anytime soon. I always feel a bit better physically and mentally, when I take it.

 

[DesertHarp]

For me opioids works great for depression as long as i have a steady supply and don't take a weeks worth in a day. I've tried mirtazipine and it helps me sleep but does nothing for depression. Morphine or hydromorph makes me feel great. Tolerance and abuse is the only down sides to using it as an antidepressant .

I was on mirtazepine. It helped my depression somewhat and also helped me to fall asleep. But it gave me weird, complicated, vivid dreams that involved anxiety. I couldn't go through that every night.

I've known people who disliked how prescribed opioids affected them, so much that they preferred putting up with the pain. I guess people can differ greatly in how opioids affect them. For some of us, they feel like a blessing that heaven intended us to have.

Tolerance, I agree, is the bugaboo. The stuff doesn't work as good as it used to, but it's a help. Vacuuming my floors gave me a back spasm this morning. One Vicodin eased it nicely. Plus I feel a lot less depressed than before I took it.

 

[Dextro .45]

It's all very subjective really. For example many of the people in my clinic don't find Polamidon (Levomethadone) euphoric, even if mainlined, but for me it's the second most euphoric opioid right after Tilidine. Everyone reacts differently to opioids which is why every opiophile has their DOC.

Levo-Methadone IS euphoric

Its a FULL mu-opioid receptor agonist, just like Heroin, Oxycodone, Hydromorphone

racemix Metjadone also possesses NMDA receptor antagonist properties and can f@ck with the heart electric beat rhythm


Both doses/drugs are equal in analgesic potency....

Levo-Methadone 40mg
Methadone 80mg

I've been on Methadone 80mg for over 10 years and it's Very euphoric and pleasurable (starting out at 30-50mg, then became tolerant and accustomed to its effects but is still nice)

2.5mg to 5mg dose for opioid naive individual

10mg can be slightly too strong depending on body weight, liver enzyme/genetic makeup and DDI

20-30mg could be fatal, especially combined with Diazepam/Xanax, Lyrica and ethanol/alcohol

Oxycodone however IS the most euphoric. Not subjective. Proven by many studies and even states this fact in the original Eukodol (Oxycodone) patent in Germany in early 1900's .....theBaine has stimulant effects making Oxycodone similar to Cocaine in dopaminergic euphoric pleasure

Why you think Sackler family Perdue Pharma selected it ?, sexy sales reps, doctor incentives, trips, bonuses, etc

I've done every opioid almost, oral, IV, etc.

Oral Oxycodone was superior to all. Even orally its the most pleasurable opioid I've ever had. Dilaudid potent as f@ck but sedating and nodding off, sleepy narcotic



.

 

[AutoTripper]

As always well the previous version of myself anyway buy hey, I still feel people must at least be aware of this avenue even if no bueno or tried flopped, or unaware too too too (lol) often of potential reverse tolerance and never over-surfed it

But Kava. I have a chemical natured depression, NS damage, so much OG Exstacy I'm proof it isn't THAT bad lol cos if so I should be a category 5 plumb forever, anyway

I have needs. I struggle, past good cannabis food sleep life was plenty.

Life changes you. Shit tonne of raw acid too, with separate severe physical nerve damages not my fault too

I swear no kava, as yes un-much I like actually drinking it, still though I would go spare.


Kava takes some time for some remember, maybe 7 days 14 possibly, or anywhere.

Day 1 me, and many not all though.


Look at the 6 main Kavalactones in Kava, eg Kavain...

See their actions. Each raise positive brain neurotransmitters in variety. Serotonin etc.


It's an amazing "adjunct" lol, I'm a Kava Adjunctoholic, for washing depression back and any physical pain, injuries too.

I use so much high q cannabis too though, 60-110 grams Kava a day addish, is enough.

 

[Hexenstahl]

Oxycodone however IS the most euphoric. Not subjective.

I'm sorry but which opioid someone finds to be the most euphoric IS entirely subjective. There is a reason why neuropharmacologists can't figure out what exactly it is that causes a stronger euphoric response in some people but not others. I personally never found oxys to be very euphoric. Tilidine takes the cake for me (only with no tolerance which is why I can't benefit from it anymore). I even dedicated an entire thread to my favorite opioid Tilidine.
Or ask PsychloneJack. He always preferred Morphine, which most people actually consider rather non-euphoric.

The subject matter of euphoria is unfortunately not clear cut, otherwise we'd be able to synthesize opioids that either don't cause any euphoria at all, or cause an incredibly strong euphoria.

 

[AngelsandFairiesarereal]

As always well the previous version of myself anyway buy hey, I still feel people must at least be aware of this avenue even if no bueno or tried flopped, or unaware too too too (lol) often of potential reverse tolerance and never over-surfed it

But Kava. I have a chemical natured depression, NS damage, so much OG Exstacy I'm proof it isn't THAT bad lol cos if so I should be a category 5 plumb forever, anyway

I have needs. I struggle, past good cannabis food sleep life was plenty.

Life changes you. Shit tonne of raw acid too, with separate severe physical nerve damages not my fault too

I swear no kava, as yes un-much I like actually drinking it, still though I would go spare.


Kava takes some time for some remember, maybe 7 days 14 possibly, or anywhere.

Day 1 me, and many not all though.


Look at the 6 main Kavalactones in Kava, eg Kavain...

See their actions. Each raise positive brain neurotransmitters in variety. Serotonin etc.


It's an amazing "adjunct" lol, I'm a Kava Adjunctoholic, for washing depression back and any physical pain, injuries too.

I use so much high q cannabis too though, 60-110 grams Kava a day addish, is enough.

Wow has kava really helped your physical pain? I don’t know much about kava
I’m always interested in things that can help with pain

 

[AutoTripper]

Wow has kava really helped your physical pain? I don’t know much about kava
I’m always interested in things that can help with pain

Hi, and I will say uncategorically Yes.

Strangely until about 2020 I never sought psychoactives specifically for localised nor systemic pain ailments as such, nor ever really talked about pain or identified myself as a pain Sufferer.

I mean the harshest allergies thunder can inflict okay can be called pain, but it's different and vital feedback, temporary ultimately harmless majority cases still like hot fire days, weeks even, guaranteeing don't go near again.

For example one single clean 250 mg Psilocybin capsule which up to Lyme in 2005 I grew and ate for free leisure like snacks on top ketamine LSD and still mindblowingly good exstacy...

1st time tried since Lyme, allergic reaction so extreme can't describe or portray, if had repeated gosh was hard enough 3-4 weeks recouping anyway

Once daily, it's lights heading out some near how and not on my terms too.

So I truly have to be so realistic, disciplined honest strong stepping this allergenic minefield in life, listening always to me alone vitally too.


I could quickly produce however many you want examples of any old you name it, food herb supplement anything, same must-avoid status.


Anyway. I spained my R knee well hard Sept 2020. Every day I swear, kava taken, mmm, no notice.

Awareness, not pain though. Nicely numbed.


Then tragedy befell, Oct 31 2021 accidental large benzo powder OD, Bath accident followed by black out sleep walking tripping real danger to own life no recall, but broken back which madly was zero problem, amazingly fast recovery like new but...

To today still outscrapping the cursed internal system injuries sustained alongside.


Many incidents since, both hands broken both feet in time maybe each since accident, left hand though worst actual break ever 7 weeks back, seriously affected my previous perfect still hands/arms etc.

Take for granted!


Detoxing AI Nanotechnology too has been surprisingly painful & arduous.

Hands all sliced open few times by selves, 1st time tonnes AI Morgellons Nano fibres exiting, 2nd time no fibres but every finger key edge points like huge papercuts way hurtier take 4 weeks to heal, and any slight water is Oww Oww Oww.


So last 2 + years pain management has been my business.

Incl horrific backfire haemorrhoids then severe fissures almost healed atm, v nearest yet 2 years of surviving sicker than death somehow spirit will ingenuity miracle prevailing.



So, all of these pains, kava so totally helps. It's indispensable there for me.

Originally I never sought it for that, latter 2019, for anxiolysis, relaxation, healthy recreation compliment cannabis.


But when pained it's vital for me now.

Not technically a pain killer too it won't coat nerve endings stall body healing just eases it enough to barely matter, daily.

 

[Cheddar_Bob_313]

From my perspective I think depression is the main reason why people abuse opiates or any drugs for that matter. Once you start doing opiates to "feel good" you just dig yourself deeper and once you're hooked the depression you originally had is like child's play. You literally lose yourself - your respect and self worth all goes down the toilet and all you're left with is shame. Addiction knows no bounds.

 

[chippermonk]

From my perspective I think depression is the main reason why people abuse opiates or any drugs for that matter. Once you start doing opiates to "feel good" you just dig yourself deeper and once you're hooked the depression you originally had is like child's play. You literally lose yourself - your respect and self worth all goes down the toilet and all you're left with is shame. Addiction knows no bounds.

I definitely do opiates for depression for sure, but I stick to really small doses (so far: it's a slippery slope, of course) I haven't gotten to the point of shame and poor self worth re my drug use, I have other things that cause that. But the thing I notice, let's say today I feel depressed and take an oxy: great! I feel much better! But almost guaranteed, when it wears off, I'm going to feel worse the next day. If I take 2 oxys, I'll feel even more worse following that. That's the thing, it's really hard to really use opioids to successfully control depression for the long run. I think the comedown always causes greater depression for me, unless it's a teeny little dose. Bottom line, I know I have to put up with suffering through the hangover of a small dose rather than try to escape it with a bigger dose. I have to always try to remember to not let the drugs damage the other things in my life that can make me less depressed, like relationships, health, security, etc. And honestly, I can feel the subtle effect of a small dose that someone else might not even notice, it helps me. But for sure, if I had good access to drugs, I'd probably be doing more. I love getting high.
Of course now I've discovered how easily I can get kratom and that it seems enjoyable...slippery slope here

 

[Cheddar_Bob_313]

I

I definitely do opiates for depression for sure, but I stick to really small doses (so far: it's a slippery slope, of course) I haven't gotten to the point of shame and poor self worth re my drug use, I have other things that cause that. But the thing I notice, let's say today I feel depressed and take an oxy: great! I feel much better! But almost guaranteed, when it wears off, I'm going to feel worse the next day. If I take 2 oxys, I'll feel even more worse following that. That's the thing, it's really hard to really use opioids to successfully control depression for the long run. I think the comedown always causes greater depression for me, unless it's a teeny little dose. Bottom line, I know I have to put up with suffering through the hangover of a small dose rather than try to escape it with a bigger dose. I have to always try to remember to not let the drugs damage the other things in my life that can make me less depressed, like relationships, health, security, etc. And honestly, I can feel the subtle effect of a small dose that someone else might not even notice, it helps me. But for sure, if I had good access to drugs, I'd probably be doing more. I love getting high.
Of course now I've discovered how easily I can get kratom and that it seems enjoyable...slippery slope here

I understand where you're coming from and hope that everything works out for you in the end.

Everyone's story is different but pretty much all the same when it comes to drug addiction. Here's my truth - I lost my mother at age 9 due to a cocaine overdose, I also lost my girlfriend of 4yrs to a fent overdose. my father was a useless junkie for almost half my life until he got on the methadone clinic and straightened himself out. After seeing my entire family and the people i love virtually destroyed by drugs I was dumb enough to get hooked on fent and ended up going to the same methadone clinic my dad frequented for almost 20yrs. I beat myself up every day over it, pondering to myself how I ended up here. I felt like such a piece of shit and had thoughts of suicide. Sometimes we're our own worst critic and especially hard on ourselves. Anyways take care of yourself friend, like I said I hope everything works out for you.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I get severe anhedonia on buprenorphine (a kappa antagonist) that I don't get from regular full agonists.


So I'd say the research going into kappa antagonism for substance use & depression is futile I think.



Fun daily reminder for everybody that it's totally legal & socially acceptable to get shit face wasted at the bar & then drive home (putting others at risk on the road)....But if you enjoy opioids because they help your depression/pain/whatever, then you're a "criminal" and a "junkie". Even though alcohol is a hundred times more toxic to the body than opioids.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Using any recrarional drug that is reinforcing (ie addictive)

Is a horrible way to a manage depression that will likely make you end up far more depressed and with a whole new world of problems in addition to the depression

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Fun daily reminder for everybody that it's totally legal & socially acceptable to get shit face wasted at the bar & then drive home (putting others at risk on the road)....But if you enjoy opioids because they help your depression/pain/whatever, then you're a "criminal" and a "junkie". Even though alcohol is a hundred times more toxic to the body than opioids.

The idea of people that abuse alcohol think themselves above any other type of addict is delusional to me.

They are so lost in this aspect that they had to seperate themselves from NA. By having AA and NA as separate things

The alcoholics in AA can’t even say the words “ I am a drug addict” which is exactly what they are. They never even made it past step 1.

Granted AA where I live is full of plenty of poly drug addicts where alcohol was the worst one for them so they understand; but even within the addict world this separation of a drug as hard as alcohol from all other drugs as being “less hard” is straight up delusional.

You would think in the recovery world they would ba w the balls to say to alcoholics that you are a drug addict just like a cocaine addict is a drug addict; even within that world they can’t. So in society where everyone is an alcohol abuser, forget it

 

[DesertHarp]

I definitely do opiates for depression for sure, but I stick to really small doses (so far: it's a slippery slope, of course) I haven't gotten to the point of shame and poor self worth re my drug use, I have other things that cause that. But the thing I notice, let's say today I feel depressed and take an oxy: great! I feel much better! But almost guaranteed, when it wears off, I'm going to feel worse the next day. If I take 2 oxys, I'll feel even more worse following that. That's the thing, it's really hard to really use opioids to successfully control depression for the long run. I think the comedown always causes greater depression for me, unless it's a teeny little dose. Bottom line, I know I have to put up with suffering through the hangover of a small dose rather than try to escape it with a bigger dose. I have to always try to remember to not let the drugs damage the other things in my life that can make me less depressed, like relationships, health, security, etc. And honestly, I can feel the subtle effect of a small dose that someone else might not even notice, it helps me. But for sure, if I had good access to drugs, I'd probably be doing more. I love getting high.
Of course now I've discovered how easily I can get kratom and that it seems enjoyable...slippery slope here

I have some Kratom capsules. I didn't find them helpful. Maybe I should try them again.

 

[DesertHarp]

I definitely do opiates for depression for sure, but I stick to really small doses (so far: it's a slippery slope, of course) I haven't gotten to the point of shame and poor self worth re my drug use, I have other things that cause that. But the thing I notice, let's say today I feel depressed and take an oxy: great! I feel much better! But almost guaranteed, when it wears off, I'm going to feel worse the next day. If I take 2 oxys, I'll feel even more worse following that. That's the thing, it's really hard to really use opioids to successfully control depression for the long run. I think the comedown always causes greater depression for me, unless it's a teeny little dose. Bottom line, I know I have to put up with suffering through the hangover of a small dose rather than try to escape it with a bigger dose. I have to always try to remember to not let the drugs damage the other things in my life that can make me less depressed, like relationships, health, security, etc. And honestly, I can feel the subtle effect of a small dose that someone else might not even notice, it helps me. But for sure, if I had good access to drugs, I'd probably be doing more. I love getting high.
Of course now I've discovered how easily I can get kratom and that it seems enjoyable...slippery slope here

I have some Kratom capsules. I didn't find them helpful. Maybe I should try them aga

The idea of people that abuse alcohol think themselves above any other type of addict is delusional to me.

They are so lost in this aspect that they had to seperate themselves from NA. By having AA and NA as separate things

The alcoholics in AA can’t even say the words “ I am a drug addict” which is exactly what they are. They never even made it past step 1.

Granted AA where I live is full of plenty of poly drug addicts where alcohol was the worst one for them so they understand; but even within the addict world this separation of a drug as hard as alcohol from all other drugs as being “less hard” is straight up delusional.

You would think in the recovery world they would ba w the balls to say to alcoholics that you are a drug addict just like a cocaine addict is a drug addict; even within that world they can’t. So in society where everyone is an alcohol abuser, forget it

My sister drinks too much fairly regularly. Yet she is extremely critical of me for taking Vicodin, which I have a prescription for. One evening, when she was half-loaded, she started to give me an angry lecture about it. I don't understand where the anger is coming from.

 

[chippermonk]

I have some Kratom capsules. I didn't find them helpful. Maybe I should try them aga

My sister drinks too much fairly regularly. Yet she is extremely critical of me for taking Vicodin, which I have a prescription for. One evening, when she was half-loaded, she started to give me an angry lecture about it. I don't understand where the anger is coming from.

Maybe the anger is because she knows that she herself has a problem, it's the self-blame being redirected at you, an easy target.
I haven't really decided how much I like Kratom. They are opiate-like but not quite the same and more inconsistent. I'm not even sure if they are safer, I gather from what others here have told me that it contains a mixture of psychoactive chemicals, so has a more complex affect. At least with, say, vicodin, there is only one substance working on you. But I dunno, I'm the wrong person to be saying anything about that. I do think it's good for me to rotate drugs and not do any single one too much, plus I can get it with no hassle.