If God Doesn't exist

[EyesSizeOfTheMoon]

^Well the thing is...we don't know exactly what the heck is happening in the after life, whether there is reincarnation or not. I meant it in the religion sense where you're good you go to heaven, bad = hell concept. And I'm just saying that heaven isn't exactly a place EVERYONE would get into. It is much easier to sin then to do the right thing and keep at it so I would assume that a good population of the human race would end up going to hell while the rest, luckily, make it into paradise.

If there is a God, I hope he is MUCH different than how organized religion set him out to be. As in a more caring and open minded being then the "you can't be gay, do drugs, go to the club, have premarital sex,etc etc or you shall be stoned and put to death" type of God.

 

[Pythagoras]

God without Science

Due to the attributes commonly assigned to God, it is logically necessary that science cannot generate hypotheses which could adjudicate whether god exists.

However, scientists can begin with the theoretical assumption that God (narrowly construed) does not exist and see how long it remains untouched by evidence when searched for. B)

ebola

I don't think God needs 'proof' from science to manifest existence. Science is not the only tool of empirical enquiry. Personally I am quite at ease with a God that seeks no revelation through science.

What an odd world we would live in if science, and science alone dictated what I believed in.%)

 

[Pythagoras]

I think Daniken is right on the money, but that's just my opinion.

"Let Us create man in Our own image?"

Sticking with the early passages of Genesis we're introduced to the enigmatic Nephilim, half man, half angel who were 'Giants' and 'men of great renown'

I don't neccessarily agree with von Danikken but muc of his exegesis of Genesis is as plausible as the Abrahamic interpretation with its contorted explanations for an apparently plural god (Elohim) who has a habit of speaking to himself!!!

 

[ebola?]

I don't think God needs 'proof' from science to manifest existence. Science is not the only tool of empirical enquiry. Personally I am quite at ease with a God that seeks no revelation through science.

What an odd world we would live in if science, and science alone dictated what I believed in.

That's pretty much what I meant--science will not adjudicate key theological questions, suffering from gaps deeper than a lack of physical theory and evidence; rather, such investigations' logical scaffolds render science mute on the issue.

ebola

ebola

 

[Pythagoras]

That's pretty much what I meant--science will not adjudicate key theological questions, suffering from gaps deeper than a lack of physical theory and evidence; rather, such investigations' logical scaffolds render science mute on the issue.

ebola

ebola

Re-reading your post I see what you mean, pardon the misunderstanding. The God of the Gaps is continually diminished, whilst the personal God of faith cannot be proven, or disproven through the scientific method. Scientism lacks intersubjective objects to enter a discourse with Theology, or even philosophy for that matter.

PAX

 

[morpher001]

Its pretty hard to prove that something that doesn't exist, doesn't exist. The proof is that it is self evident, beyond that it gets a bit tough I suppose.

Perhaps without the sky man to be the moral authority on everything, people might start to take some responsibility for their own choices, but no doubt the masses would be quick to find someone or something else to make up their minds for them.

 

[fluxzor]

What an odd world we would live in if science, and science alone dictated what I believed in.%)

I'm not sure what you mean. Could you write an example?

 

[Damien]

^ why crushed?

Please let me share through two hymns that say it better than I could.

NSFW:

My hope is built on nothing less
Than Jesus’ blood and righteousness.
I dare not trust the sweetest frame,
But wholly trust in Jesus’ Name.

When darkness seems to hide His lovely face,
I rest on His unchanging grace.
In every high and stormy gale,
My anchor holds within the veil.

On Christ the solid Rock I stand,
All other ground is sinking sand;
All other ground is sinking sand.

His oath, His covenant, His blood,
Support me in the whelming flood.
When all around my soul gives way,
He then is all my Hope and Stay.

On Christ the solid Rock I stand,
All other ground is sinking sand;
All other ground is sinking sand.

When He shall come with trumpet sound,
Oh may I then in Him be found.
Dressed in His righteousness alone,
Faultless to stand before the throne.

On Christ the solid Rock I stand,
All other ground is sinking sand;
All other ground is sinking sand.
On Christ the solid Rock I stand,
All other ground is sinking sand;
All other ground is sinking sand.

NSFW:

Come, thou Fount of every blessing,
tune my heart to sing thy grace;
streams of mercy, never ceasing,
call for songs of loudest praise.
Teach me some melodious sonnet,
sung by flaming tongues above.
Praise the mount! I'm fixed upon it,
mount of thy redeeming love.

2. Here I raise mine Ebenezer;
hither by thy help I'm come;
and I hope, by thy good pleasure,
safely to arrive at home.
Jesus sought me when a stranger,
wandering from the fold of God;
he, to rescue me from danger,
interposed his precious blood.

3. O to grace how great a debtor
daily I'm constrained to be!
Let thy goodness, like a fetter,
bind my wandering heart to thee.
Prone to wander, Lord, I feel it,
prone to leave the God I love;
here's my heart, O take and seal it,
seal it for thy courts above.

To have my beliefs scientifically proven incorrect would just blow my mind. I would be interested to see the responses in a thread titled "If God does exist".

 

[Jak3]

I honestly find no point in even worrying about it, let anyone and everyone believe what they choose to believe....some peoples faith is so strong that you could throw every scientifical explanation at them, clearly showing that theres is no form of any God(s) and it wouldnt matter. We truly wont know the answer until we die.....maybe not even then.

 

[qwe]

They could never "prove" such a thing because humans all have different perspectives on God. What a higher power is to me, is different from what it is to someone else. Therefore such a thing could never be proven. Spirituality is not something solid like that. You can't disprove it.

we said the same thing about what the stars were, about whether the earth was flat, etc.

god represents something specific to each individual. i don't see why it couldn't be a possibility that all perspectives of god relying on the supernatural become disproven.

since god is a result of * magical thinking * a particular neurochemical state * a psychosocial phenomena, we may not even need to disprove his existence... why would anyone posit russel's teapot, or a sky god, or intellectually evolved forms of that same sky god?

 

[Damien]

since god is a result of * magical thinking * a particular neurochemical state * a psychosocial phenomena

How would you prove someone wrong if they said that God is the reason for a particular neurochemical state?

 

[P A]

Its pretty hard to prove that something that doesn't exist, doesn't exist

I think that this is one of the best points in the thread. It's important to consider the fact that even an attempt at corroborating the non-existence of an inconceivable number of non-extant things is more than likely impossible. And yes, the orbiting teapot, Poseidon, etc. come readily to mind, as any one of these in specific is a perfectly homologous non-sequitur to any serious rational inquiry regarding the natural world or the human condition. I consider this something of a negation. The unreasonable degree of confidence placed by many otherwise-reasonable people in their respective god(s)'s existence(s) can often be unnerving, especially when one considers that no 'god' in particular is more likely than any other. This is the relatively facile Dick Dawkins argument - one that I think cannot be mentioned often enough in contexts such as these.

we may not even need to disprove his existence

Are you suggesting a Nietzschean god, or simply dismissing all theistic faith as 'magical thinking?' [For clarity - I see both considerations as basically valid; I'm just curious which one, if either, you intended to propound]

 

[ebola?]

I don't think that we can continue skirting the question as to what god might be for much longer in this discussion.

And then, so what extent does one's engagement with god's validity depend on the method of said engagement?

ebola

 

[Pythagoras]

Knowing things that science cannot show

I'm not sure what you mean. Could you write an example?

I was trying to be poetic but never mind. The crux of what I was saying was that beliefs and knowledge I hold to be true do not come exclusively from science. My belief in other beings (similar to myself) gives my my escape from the mind-numbing alternative of solipsism. That is one of many justified beliefs that cannot be shown by science. I suppose I was trying to impart that epistemology does not equate to Scientism. Science is a wondrous thing, to be sure, but it fails to provide means of assessing many axiomatic beliefs' truth value.

 

[P A]

How would you prove someone wrong if they said that God is the reason for a particular neurochemical state?

The idea that one could seriously address such a non-falsifiable claim and satisfactorily 'prove it wrong' is completely nonsensical in the first place.

 

[SuperPump250]

If we all knew life's answers at this point, then how special would life really be? People would all adjust their actions significantly to fit into the meaning of life that was revealed to them, and what would be the point of living then. You'd just be playing a video game with your own life, in an uncool way.

Maybe life is fake, or real, depending on the information you currently possess. I like to think the universe can create anything and be anything, and honestly if I knew the answer to life during my stay here on earth, I think I would feel like I am living something that is simply being created or not really naturally real.

My meaning here is I think life is in a way fake, because it likely can be created. I do believe I am currently sitting here, but what if I knew exactly why I am here, how I got here, and what the purpose is?

I'd probably say oh that's cool, I'll play out this boring fake life now, and can I please jump into the next one without spoiling it, and thus making it real again?

 

[ebola?]

To elaborate on my last point, my 'god' (or rather, my best guess as to what one would be like if 'it' existed) conceptually integrates pantheist and atheist ideas. How much does that have to do with the 'god' others speak of when asking questions related to 'his' existence?

ebola

 

[TINK]

I personnaly believe that religion, faith, higher powers etc are something that are ase personal as fingerprints. I do not believe that one thing is right for everyone. I do not prescribe to "cookie cutter" religion. I have higher powers that I turn to, and they are mine and I do not feel they are yours and nor do I feel I should force them on you.

I recently had a conversation with someone and they told me that to believe that there was no jesus was completely ignorant on my part. I answered her with, if believing in jesus makes me judgemental like you, I am glad I am ignorant.

So, light a candle, say a prayer, or burn some sage. Whatever works for you and helps you get through this fucked up world easier, then by all means do it. Just don't force it on others.

 

[paranoid android]

I figure either one of 2 things.

1. God does not exist and this is pretty much what i believe in

2. God has no control over the world or anyone in it and thus is irrelevant

In either case wheather there was or actually has been a god is really a mute point now isint it? If there ever was one he left us long ago and is completely irellavant. The only purpose any religion really serves is for both to give some peace to the flock and to keep people in check.

As for a afterlife i don't believe in one and havent for quite awile. There is a afterlife in the sense of the memories you leave behind on people but beyond that not much i think.

 

[StrutterGear]

You don 't know God isn't real