Well, I still don't see this post as being "anti-ecstasy." I think it's just another reminder that drugs, in general, all have their risks. Everyone should be walking away from this acknowledging risks and weighing their options. This isn't about swaying anyone's opinion. It's about making your own. At least, I'd like to think that.
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MDMA &
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- Thread starter dance2tranz
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MrSmartyPants
Ex-Bluelighter
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2000
- Messages
- 54
If this post isnt anti-ecstasy I dont know what is. You guys take every post about the real side effects of drugs as a warning to use them safely, instead of their intended purpose. Dont do them. Its called denial.
BTW Some people get hurt jumping out of a window....some people dont.
Just weigh your risks....I heard its fun on the way down.
BTW Some people get hurt jumping out of a window....some people dont.
Just weigh your risks....I heard its fun on the way down.
thanks for bringing up this topic, i agree that bl has turned very pro-E, but this is a democracy and i guess birds of a feather flock together.
kati, this topic is continually rehashed for the same reason we continually see "plugging" ","what does PLUR mean?" , and "E made me feel soo wonderful" posts. bl isn't static, new peeps who want to see the good and bad and everything in between come to this site.
glad to see the other side express their view and not be flamed. i get worried when i only see good things about ANYTHING.
people may not want to hear about the negative E effects, people say that mommy and others problems don't affect them, they roll fine, and still are productive members of society. well, guess what?? remember when your health insurance premiums increased?? that's the covering the cost of those ER trips, ambulances picking up an bad trip at a club. had to pay more taxes? that covered police responding to societal pressure to close down raves. go undercover and close down labs. even though you weren't rollig or dealing, just coming out to dance, have you seen your favorite club close or operate under really tight restrictions? that's how E negatively effects all of us.
don't know where the answer lies in all of us. i'm coming to the end of a roll of rolls (once a week for about 4 months). i'm so thankful that i haven't hit the tuesday blues or the sleep disorders. for me, E was a great honeymoon. when i turned 21, i drank too much, when i got my first car i was queen of the road, my first apt was party central. and this too, shall come to a moderation/stop.
kati, this topic is continually rehashed for the same reason we continually see "plugging" ","what does PLUR mean?" , and "E made me feel soo wonderful" posts. bl isn't static, new peeps who want to see the good and bad and everything in between come to this site.
glad to see the other side express their view and not be flamed. i get worried when i only see good things about ANYTHING.
people may not want to hear about the negative E effects, people say that mommy and others problems don't affect them, they roll fine, and still are productive members of society. well, guess what?? remember when your health insurance premiums increased?? that's the covering the cost of those ER trips, ambulances picking up an bad trip at a club. had to pay more taxes? that covered police responding to societal pressure to close down raves. go undercover and close down labs. even though you weren't rollig or dealing, just coming out to dance, have you seen your favorite club close or operate under really tight restrictions? that's how E negatively effects all of us.
don't know where the answer lies in all of us. i'm coming to the end of a roll of rolls (once a week for about 4 months). i'm so thankful that i haven't hit the tuesday blues or the sleep disorders. for me, E was a great honeymoon. when i turned 21, i drank too much, when i got my first car i was queen of the road, my first apt was party central. and this too, shall come to a moderation/stop.
I think if you live a healthy lifestyle and don't use E too often you won't suffer too much from anything. Now if you use E every weekend, drink the next day, smoke some weed, do some acid, shit like that all the time then yeah you are going to fuck yourself up, alot of people like to put the blame on one drug, but how many of you guys/girls out there that are having problems have done or are doing more then just E, acid, K, weed, alcohol, and any other drugs, personally I have seen many of people get fucked real quick off of speed and cocaine use, after a few weeks. You got to be smart when you use drugs since they are dangerous, eat healthy, take vitamins, get your sleep and don't put yourself in stressful situations. Later.
"whatever......i'm just saying- this is a drug discussion board- expect to hear the
bad as well as the good. hopefully you'll gain something from it."
I am willing to accept that I am going to hear that bad and actually i appreciate it and thats part of the reason i read this board BUT i also dont understand why people assume that hearing their horror stories is going to make people change their OWN behavior...i dont mean to speak for everyone else but i knwo that for myself I have taken the known (and the possible) risks into account and still choose to roll and others have decided to stop (or never start) im sorry that people have had bad experinces and the more power to you for not doign somehting you find harmful for yourself but just dont come here expecting your story to change others lives...it was life-altering for you but maybe its not for some of us...keep posting the good and bad but why try to change others minds?
bad as well as the good. hopefully you'll gain something from it."
I am willing to accept that I am going to hear that bad and actually i appreciate it and thats part of the reason i read this board BUT i also dont understand why people assume that hearing their horror stories is going to make people change their OWN behavior...i dont mean to speak for everyone else but i knwo that for myself I have taken the known (and the possible) risks into account and still choose to roll and others have decided to stop (or never start) im sorry that people have had bad experinces and the more power to you for not doign somehting you find harmful for yourself but just dont come here expecting your story to change others lives...it was life-altering for you but maybe its not for some of us...keep posting the good and bad but why try to change others minds?
My question is simple and will probably get a lot more responses than I necessarily want, but oh well...
Now, I don't mean condoning other people's drug habits nor advocating its use by all, but...Is it so horrible to defend your personal use of ecstasy?
Now, I don't mean condoning other people's drug habits nor advocating its use by all, but...Is it so horrible to defend your personal use of ecstasy?
so much bs flying around.
i used MDMA from 89-92. I did not develop a depression disorder - nor an anxiety dissorder - nor anything else for that matter. i did this while in college - got a masters degree - whatever.
i used MDMA recently - in moderation (unlike 89-92) and have suffered no ill.
my friends that dropped with me during 89-92 - are fine (except the ones who decided to mix MDMA with a few other subst.)
different people have different seritonin levels in their brain - if you try operating on extended seritonin depleation - you put yourself at risk.
MDMA is not directly neurotoxic (at least no proven to be so) - it creates a state in the brain similar to depression - and in this state - dopamine is theorized to cause damage to the nuerons when broken down by MAO.
a problem pattern that arises - people who are naturally depressed (by enviroment - whatever) - tend to reach to E as an answer to their depression - as an antidepressent MDMA is an AWFUL choice because it further lowers the seritonin stores in your brain when what you really need is something to build them up.
it has been my observation that people who abuse MDMA needed treatment for depression prior to self medicating on MDMA.
if you are battling with depression DO NOT TAKE MDMA!!! - its that simple.
its not an answer - it is just fun!!
i used MDMA from 89-92. I did not develop a depression disorder - nor an anxiety dissorder - nor anything else for that matter. i did this while in college - got a masters degree - whatever.
i used MDMA recently - in moderation (unlike 89-92) and have suffered no ill.
my friends that dropped with me during 89-92 - are fine (except the ones who decided to mix MDMA with a few other subst.)
different people have different seritonin levels in their brain - if you try operating on extended seritonin depleation - you put yourself at risk.
MDMA is not directly neurotoxic (at least no proven to be so) - it creates a state in the brain similar to depression - and in this state - dopamine is theorized to cause damage to the nuerons when broken down by MAO.
a problem pattern that arises - people who are naturally depressed (by enviroment - whatever) - tend to reach to E as an answer to their depression - as an antidepressent MDMA is an AWFUL choice because it further lowers the seritonin stores in your brain when what you really need is something to build them up.
it has been my observation that people who abuse MDMA needed treatment for depression prior to self medicating on MDMA.
if you are battling with depression DO NOT TAKE MDMA!!! - its that simple.
its not an answer - it is just fun!!
first off, i want what i write to be taken with a grain of salt, this is all personal opinion, and conjecture based on what i have seen and written. i do not have any degree in any medical field that would warrent me as an expert, and i doubt any of the people posting thus far do either.
first off, for the people in this thread who have felt the ills of ecstasy use, i would like to suggest one thing. perhaps, and i saw only perhaps, you had a genetic predisposition to depression, panic attacks, etc? i find it a lot more plausible from what i know, that e would bring out such genetics than to actually cause them.
dance...you are still young, 21 right? it really is quite early to see profound changes in your neurochemistry, unless you were an exceptionally heavy user. however, at an age of 21, you would still be considered young to be diagnosed with depression, or some similar "social" disorder. many people are not diagnosed until middle age, yet it is a condition that you are often born with, it is genetic, and it is hereditary.
here, i am speaking from experience. i am clinically depressed, and i'm 19. how do i know this? it runs very heavily in my family, most member of my family suffer from sometimes debilitating depression. depression is a condition that can vary greatly in it's strength and how it affects each person. i went and got myself checked out because both i, and a doctor here at school thought i exhibited the traits of a clinically depressed individual. i think my use of ecstasy in the past (i used it every 2-3 weeks for approx. 18months) brought out many of the symptoms i recognize. or perhaps, it was just the natural changes that would have occurred in me anyway, the ages 18 and 19 are generally ages of great upheavel and change in most kids. i can't know for sure one way or the other. so, dance, do you think it's possible that maybe these conditions existed anyways, and your use of the drug brought them about? i wouldn't be surprised if that were the case for me. consequently, this is why i don't use ecstasy anymore. but i won't knock it. if it did bring out my depression, or worsen it, or anything else, then so be it. it's something i brought upon myself, and something i am dealing with without that much trouble. no, i don't take antidepressants either. using e also allowed me to realize and recognize a great many things which i might not have recognized otherwise. these are things i am very greatful for as well. i look at the world, and myself in an entirely different manner than i used to, i am a lot more comfortable with who i am, and who i need to be as a result of my use. these are benefits which outweigh the side-effects, at least for me.
mommy, i would make some of the same conjectures about you. from your trip report, and this, i would guess that you have a similar condition to myself, and possibly to dance. again, this is personal opinion based on what i know of the drugs, and what i've read that you've decided to share. lsd does not change your brain chemically, however, it has been known to bring out neurological disorders which were already present, and were lying dormant. they are still genetic conditions which were always a part of you. i don't think either drug has changed who you are, it may have just made some less-desirable behaviors more active/prevalent. and i think science would support my conjecture that these conditions would have become present regardless, either induced by drug use, serious mental trauma, undue stress, etc. many events and activities can be life-changing. what do you think mid-life crisis' are the result of? they certainly don't appear out of thin air.
again, this is all my observation, and a *possible* hypothesis of what is going on. maybe i'm way off base. but check your genetics, maybe it runs in the family, and maybe it's all in your head.
bc
------------------
bc-
**Proud to be an Official member of the Stuck-Up/8-Up Crew**
"Fuck PLUR! it's all about hardcore ass fucking!!"
We'll make great pets...
"drug suppliers, typically wearing 'Ecko' brand sweat shirts shuffle around the dance floor, chanting softly, 'want some pills? k?'" - Shu Shin Luh, The Chicago Sun-Times
first off, for the people in this thread who have felt the ills of ecstasy use, i would like to suggest one thing. perhaps, and i saw only perhaps, you had a genetic predisposition to depression, panic attacks, etc? i find it a lot more plausible from what i know, that e would bring out such genetics than to actually cause them.
dance...you are still young, 21 right? it really is quite early to see profound changes in your neurochemistry, unless you were an exceptionally heavy user. however, at an age of 21, you would still be considered young to be diagnosed with depression, or some similar "social" disorder. many people are not diagnosed until middle age, yet it is a condition that you are often born with, it is genetic, and it is hereditary.
here, i am speaking from experience. i am clinically depressed, and i'm 19. how do i know this? it runs very heavily in my family, most member of my family suffer from sometimes debilitating depression. depression is a condition that can vary greatly in it's strength and how it affects each person. i went and got myself checked out because both i, and a doctor here at school thought i exhibited the traits of a clinically depressed individual. i think my use of ecstasy in the past (i used it every 2-3 weeks for approx. 18months) brought out many of the symptoms i recognize. or perhaps, it was just the natural changes that would have occurred in me anyway, the ages 18 and 19 are generally ages of great upheavel and change in most kids. i can't know for sure one way or the other. so, dance, do you think it's possible that maybe these conditions existed anyways, and your use of the drug brought them about? i wouldn't be surprised if that were the case for me. consequently, this is why i don't use ecstasy anymore. but i won't knock it. if it did bring out my depression, or worsen it, or anything else, then so be it. it's something i brought upon myself, and something i am dealing with without that much trouble. no, i don't take antidepressants either. using e also allowed me to realize and recognize a great many things which i might not have recognized otherwise. these are things i am very greatful for as well. i look at the world, and myself in an entirely different manner than i used to, i am a lot more comfortable with who i am, and who i need to be as a result of my use. these are benefits which outweigh the side-effects, at least for me.
mommy, i would make some of the same conjectures about you. from your trip report, and this, i would guess that you have a similar condition to myself, and possibly to dance. again, this is personal opinion based on what i know of the drugs, and what i've read that you've decided to share. lsd does not change your brain chemically, however, it has been known to bring out neurological disorders which were already present, and were lying dormant. they are still genetic conditions which were always a part of you. i don't think either drug has changed who you are, it may have just made some less-desirable behaviors more active/prevalent. and i think science would support my conjecture that these conditions would have become present regardless, either induced by drug use, serious mental trauma, undue stress, etc. many events and activities can be life-changing. what do you think mid-life crisis' are the result of? they certainly don't appear out of thin air.
again, this is all my observation, and a *possible* hypothesis of what is going on. maybe i'm way off base. but check your genetics, maybe it runs in the family, and maybe it's all in your head.
bc
------------------
bc-
**Proud to be an Official member of the Stuck-Up/8-Up Crew**
"Fuck PLUR! it's all about hardcore ass fucking!!"
We'll make great pets...
"drug suppliers, typically wearing 'Ecko' brand sweat shirts shuffle around the dance floor, chanting softly, 'want some pills? k?'" - Shu Shin Luh, The Chicago Sun-Times
thx. kindly, hope neither dance nor mommy takes it as a personal attack, rather, i identify quite well with their situations, recognizing them as ones i think i would approach were i to continue to use.
just observations on how use has effected me, and why i don't think it should be solely blamed...there's a lot more info that needs to be known on the individual level before you go and blame a drug for changing you on such a dramatic level. changing a persons neurochemistry that drastically is nearly impossible. but when one considers the fact that perhaps the changes were already present and needed only a catalyst to set them in motion, the plausibility of their, and my situation seems entirely more reasonable.
just my $0.02...
oh, and kewl, i'll be back in seattle this wed., i'll be in touch.
bc
------------------
bc-
**Proud to be an Official member of the Stuck-Up/8-Up Crew**
"Fuck PLUR! it's all about hardcore ass fucking!!"
We'll make great pets...
"drug suppliers, typically wearing 'Ecko' brand sweat shirts shuffle around the dance floor, chanting softly, 'want some pills? k?'" - Shu Shin Luh, The Chicago Sun-Times
just observations on how use has effected me, and why i don't think it should be solely blamed...there's a lot more info that needs to be known on the individual level before you go and blame a drug for changing you on such a dramatic level. changing a persons neurochemistry that drastically is nearly impossible. but when one considers the fact that perhaps the changes were already present and needed only a catalyst to set them in motion, the plausibility of their, and my situation seems entirely more reasonable.
just my $0.02...
oh, and kewl, i'll be back in seattle this wed., i'll be in touch.
bc
------------------
bc-
**Proud to be an Official member of the Stuck-Up/8-Up Crew**
"Fuck PLUR! it's all about hardcore ass fucking!!"
We'll make great pets...
"drug suppliers, typically wearing 'Ecko' brand sweat shirts shuffle around the dance floor, chanting softly, 'want some pills? k?'" - Shu Shin Luh, The Chicago Sun-Times
Tranceplant7
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2000
- Messages
- 215
kewl, i echo your comment about bc's post
since i see we have a few people that are divided about using e, let me pose this question:
what are the differences between drinking alcohol and doing e? i think i would be interesting to see everyone's views on this...
i'll start. alcohol is taxable by the u.s. government, e is not.
since i see we have a few people that are divided about using e, let me pose this question:
what are the differences between drinking alcohol and doing e? i think i would be interesting to see everyone's views on this...
i'll start. alcohol is taxable by the u.s. government, e is not.
Tranceplant7
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 4, 2000
- Messages
- 215
thanks gmni13, let me know when you do
dance2tranz
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2000
- Messages
- 8
I'm glad people have found this post educational, and i was very interested to read trough all the replies and hear everyone theories. I can't stress this enough, I didn't start this thread to "change peoples minds". Fortunately this evolved into an interesting discussion, mostly dividing us into 2 main groups. Users reporting negative effects, and long time users denying any damage to their health due to ecstacy use. To all the other's i suggest reading "KyK's" post , i can't explain it better than he did.
Tranceplant7
Man, out of all the posts i found yours most disturbing. I have to admit that severe depression and panic attacks don't just come out of nowhere usually you start noticing changes in your mood little by little. But there is this thin line which separates positive effects of ecstacy (mostly just enjoying your trip) from suffering from its use,which can get you over the edge. You are saying that you are actually getting panic attacks,but you are ignoring them, telling yourself that you can manage them. Well here's a tip, panic attacks are not the same, when i was doing e, every time i would get panic attack it would be worse than the previous one, last one was so bad, i decided i don't want to find out what the next one will be like. I don't know to which degree you are describing your "mood swings" , but i can certainly see you going down my path.
BC
Bro, what you said about how ecstacy doesn't cause but rather brings out a devil in you. is only true for those like yourself with a depression disorder running in the genes. People like you are first ones on ecstacy hitlist. You make a very good point and as i said before if you have depressive personality , E is not for you. But you can possibly deny , that its use can't earn you some depression disorder or put you on Paxil, especially if you are a heavy user. I never noticed myself, or anyone in my family fighting depression, but i will admit i'm rather emotional than stable, and ecstacy made it a lot worse for me, I never cried at the movies before i swear. So you are right in your post man, people like you or me certainly have better chances in scoring mental disorder, but it doesn't exclude everyone else, they just come in second.
Tranceplant7
Man, out of all the posts i found yours most disturbing. I have to admit that severe depression and panic attacks don't just come out of nowhere usually you start noticing changes in your mood little by little. But there is this thin line which separates positive effects of ecstacy (mostly just enjoying your trip) from suffering from its use,which can get you over the edge. You are saying that you are actually getting panic attacks,but you are ignoring them, telling yourself that you can manage them. Well here's a tip, panic attacks are not the same, when i was doing e, every time i would get panic attack it would be worse than the previous one, last one was so bad, i decided i don't want to find out what the next one will be like. I don't know to which degree you are describing your "mood swings" , but i can certainly see you going down my path.
BC
Bro, what you said about how ecstacy doesn't cause but rather brings out a devil in you. is only true for those like yourself with a depression disorder running in the genes. People like you are first ones on ecstacy hitlist. You make a very good point and as i said before if you have depressive personality , E is not for you. But you can possibly deny , that its use can't earn you some depression disorder or put you on Paxil, especially if you are a heavy user. I never noticed myself, or anyone in my family fighting depression, but i will admit i'm rather emotional than stable, and ecstacy made it a lot worse for me, I never cried at the movies before i swear. So you are right in your post man, people like you or me certainly have better chances in scoring mental disorder, but it doesn't exclude everyone else, they just come in second.
i am glad to see that for the most part this is a relatively intelligent topic and convo. i must give credit for that. like i said dance, i was just theorizing and guessing based on my experience, and similarities i saw with yours. it's a large part of the reason i don't roll anymore. last weekend i ate my first pill since july, because my girl was rolling for the first time. it was fun. and, as has happened in the past, it turned me into a wreck afterwards. i'm used to the crackedoutness, i am used to be epressed, and have gotten pretty good at handling it, but it's still fucked up, and isn't really worth the 5 or 6 hours of fun. especially when i can have as much fun sober, or on any number of drugs which at least don't debilitate me so much mentally. (the whole argument over the physical effects of drugs is entirely different, and i'm not going to even touch it). this roll confirmed for me that i don't ever need to do e anymore, as much fun as it is. i'm mentally and emotionally crazy enough w/out it.
if i'm going to do a drug, i'd rather to acid, be crazier and feel kinda sane when i'm done tripping. at least that way it's the illusion of sanity. (only half serious here).
anyways, glad you READ my post, rather than skimming it, misreading it or responding shallowly and missing the point entirely as happens all too often on this board.
bc
------------------
bc-
**Proud to be an Official member of the Stuck-Up/8-Up Crew**
"Fuck PLUR! it's all about hardcore ass fucking!!"
We'll make great pets...
"drug suppliers, typically wearing 'Ecko' brand sweat shirts shuffle around the dance floor, chanting softly, 'want some pills? k?'" - Shu Shin Luh, The Chicago Sun-Times
anyways, glad you READ my post, rather than skimming it, misreading it or responding shallowly and missing the point entirely as happens all too often on this board.
bc
------------------
bc-
**Proud to be an Official member of the Stuck-Up/8-Up Crew**
"Fuck PLUR! it's all about hardcore ass fucking!!"
We'll make great pets...
"drug suppliers, typically wearing 'Ecko' brand sweat shirts shuffle around the dance floor, chanting softly, 'want some pills? k?'" - Shu Shin Luh, The Chicago Sun-Times
great topic
to conclude
heavy e use:
= depression/
panic attacks
Underlying mental
conditions + e:
I can't wait for the designer drugs of the future, imagine non neurotoxic MDMA, non addictive opiates, acid which will last as long as you like. k without the hole. chocolate flavoured e growing on trees in your garden.
You'll be telling your grand kids what paranoia was like.
Pasha
to conclude
heavy e use:
= depression/
panic attacks
Underlying mental
conditions + e:
I can't wait for the designer drugs of the future, imagine non neurotoxic MDMA, non addictive opiates, acid which will last as long as you like. k without the hole. chocolate flavoured e growing on trees in your garden.
You'll be telling your grand kids what paranoia was like.
Pasha
Cyc
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Sep 11, 2000
- Messages
- 11,370
DVaGrl - Excellent reasoning. I am by no means discrediting this drug for recreational use; but, alas, for myself and many others on this board, the time has come to end the 'honeymoon,' so to speak.
I just hope everyone has the sense to realize when it is their respectable time and are able to look back with a fond perspective and smile at that undiscovered country within, holding with them some of the memories and experiences.
Ecstacy is much like an ever elusive Pixie. You can catch her, and even embrace her, but you cannot own her. If you attempt to do so, she will own you instead.
There will always be new users out there, coming to this board, struggling with themselves, looking to justify their new love. It will be up to the people who have travelled those roads to guide them towards safe and moderate usage.
Remember, our vast Universe has a constant balance. Action - Reaction. Anything that causes immediate pleasure has adverse consequences. There are no exceptions. None!
Maybe I'll visit Neverland again someday and perhaps learn to fly once more. But I must distance myself from the influence and free myself before I can fully move on.
Know yourself, know your limits. Listen to your subconscious, chances are it's telling you something, if you only care to look and are willing to take its advice.
Kyk
specialist
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2000
- Messages
- 8
shepassion,
i have been using e for about 2 years and let me tell u i look at it alot different now than i used to........the buzz was the best in the world and i could go in public and be social and love it........that was in the 1st year........the 2nd year it still gave me a good feeling but i had to eat more and more as the year went on........by the end of the 2nd year the postive effects such as happiness socialable touchy feely feelings.....have amost vanished it has seemed it has lost its magic......and the hangovers are much worse than ever before......so yes i did think e was the greastest on earth........and i still would if i could feel it better.......i eaten over 250 pills in the past 2 years that could seriously have something to do with it......
i have been using e for about 2 years and let me tell u i look at it alot different now than i used to........the buzz was the best in the world and i could go in public and be social and love it........that was in the 1st year........the 2nd year it still gave me a good feeling but i had to eat more and more as the year went on........by the end of the 2nd year the postive effects such as happiness socialable touchy feely feelings.....have amost vanished it has seemed it has lost its magic......and the hangovers are much worse than ever before......so yes i did think e was the greastest on earth........and i still would if i could feel it better.......i eaten over 250 pills in the past 2 years that could seriously have something to do with it......