I want my own species to light up in hellfire

[Ninae]

Have you tried UEI Kratom instead? That seems to have much more of a positive effect. Haven't really experienced any negative effects from that.

 

[Xorkoth]

Kratom is still an addictive drug for those predisposed (like me). It's true some people can use opiates responsibly and not develop a problem but a worryingly large percentage of people do develop a very serious problem, which is why I would never recommend anyone to use them except in cases of severe physical pain. The temptation is far too great to go overboard when they're your tool for dealing with negative emotions. And once you've slid down that path they do nothing but greatly increase your pain and inability to deal with said pain except via opiates (and at some point you can't even really banish it with opiates anymore).

 

[TheAppleCore]

While I sympathize somewhat with your sentiment Flickering, there's little justification for hating humanity. Why is this?

Think for a moment about all the suffering and pain we experience. Where does it come from? What pains us? If you boil it down, all pain is basically caused by death. The greatest pains are caused by outright human death, but smaller pains are caused by the death of things like relationships, or even material possessions or money. Those things help us to survive, so when we lose them, we suffer because our very lives are threatened, in a tiny way.

In other words, all of the ups and downs in our life are just differing shades of light: brighter light is joy, and dimmer light is pain.

The point is, what you ultimately want is to survive and flourish. That's what everybody wants. It's self-contradicting to think of life as some kind of blight on the world, because a blight by definition is something that threatens life. The very worst possible scenario is nuclear armageddon, destroying the entire planet - perfect darkness. But even then, our planet got a wild ride of a few billion years of incredible, prolific, vibrant life. You can't lose.

 

[Flickering]

This is a madhouse. A snake pit full of liars. We lie to each other and we lie to ourselves.. all the time. Deep down everyone knows this because as small children we figured this out intuitively, but we had no choice.. accept your parents and how it is or you die. The majority of people continue to function with the mask on for their entire lives rather than face the disturbing truth. Which is why I can not hate people for being how they are.. it is frustrating as hell having to put up with it, but you can't hate them for it.

Yes. I am noticing the trend seems to be towards authority. As children we have someone to look up to; whether they're tyrants or angels or somewhere in between there's a source of authority. As adults we gravitate towards religion or leaders to allow us to keep that sense of objective authority. The few who reject all these false measures of power have the (mis)fortune of realising we're not bound to any divine rule; it's all up to us what seems right and what seems wrong, and even the many who don't see it that way trip over themselves with their hourly self-contradictions. To us, the highest authority is the great gaping void of the universe.

What someone else said here provides food for thought.. there are other nations and communities out there that aren't nearly as fucked up as the Western model is, where family and community still reigns strong. It's not all of humanity that I hate, not even humanity itself, because as we can see there are good people out there (and in our own nations).

For sure, one of these days I will run away, even if only for a while.

Singular humans are often awesome, but nothing exists in isolation. Where there is one, there's more and then we have 'society'. Would we be better had we not taken steps into behavioural modernity?

Yes, I tend to find individuals interesting and often worthwhile, but in groups my patience runs dry remarkably fast.

Whilst I understand the sentiments of the OP, I think it expresses the most perfectly human reasoning. We are awful vicious animals that don't deserve to exist; let us sweep earth completely clean with fire. Only a human would think to take out the totality of earthly existence to remove their own unhappy self.

I recognise that. Even as I started this topic I was aware of the inherent contradiction of wishing death on the human race because the human race is so destructive. Truth is, this is less a legitimate philosophical stance and more an expression of pain. Like others here have said, hatred comes first out of agony. No, I don't think this is how I should feel, I don't think it's useful, but I do anyway.

If you give up and opt out, you are no better then those who opt in and are actively destructive. Good men doing nothing. Who of us is free of sin. Thought has weighed me down immensely.

I'm doing things. I just hate that my deck had to be a futile uphill struggle. Came into this world thinking I was on the winning side of good. Frankly I can understand the lengths some people go to in order to hold on to that delusion. It sucks knowing that no matter what you do, at the end of the day, the cunts are going to win every match.

If you can embrace this and learn to ride waves of despair, learn how not to become exhausted swimming against an undertow but swimming alongside it, relax your body into being thrashed and rolled by powers greater than your strength, knowing there is still air to be had, you can survive.

This brief expression of pessimism aside, I am actually coping a lot better than I used to. The last couple of years have been pretty awful, so much has gone wrong that it got to the point where I was just sitting back waiting for, and fully expecting, the next kick in the balls. And it came, predictably, every time. One of my friends died. One went to jail and will be deported - and he's innocent. One turned out to have never been a friend at all, she's been stealing from me all year even as I've been sleeping on the carpet because I haven't been able to afford a mattress. Lost my job, my degree and my house, twice. My family put the dog down after he tried to maul my sister. And so on and on and on. And throughout all of this, the backdrop has, as usual, been the steady advance of tyranny in the world today, the systematic erosion of our civil liberties, the growing divide between rich and poor and the general stupidity of the masses who allow this to happen. No wonder I still wake up now and then wondering what's the damn point.

But the fulcrum I come back to seems to be a point of calmness. I still go off the rails and just start hating everything sometimes, but it used to drown me, to go with the ocean metaphor. Not so much anymore. Most days I can just focus on what's right in front of me and block out the many, many things I have no control over.

The point is, what you ultimately want is to survive and flourish. That's what everybody wants. It's self-contradicting to think of life as some kind of blight on the world, because a blight by definition is something that threatens life. The very worst possible scenario is nuclear armageddon, destroying the entire planet - perfect darkness. But even then, our planet got a wild ride of a few billion years of incredible, prolific, vibrant life. You can't lose.

I don't entirely agree, there are fates worse than death, sometimes extinction is a mercy. True that most of us, by virtue of being able to talk over the internet at all, aren't in that position. But one eighth of the global population is starving. And I think I would rather die than live in North Korea. Or tred on some powerful prick's toes and end up locked in a supermax isolation cell for the rest of my life. Perhaps my survival instinct just is not as strong as everyone else's.

 

[Ninae]

I still go off the rails and just start hating everything sometimes, but it used to drown me, to go with the ocean metaphor.

Do you also turn against yourself and start to hate yourself? Because that is just as bad. Self-hatred, either unconsciously or consciously, is a real problem in our world and very destructive. There are a lot of things that can make you turn against yourself but you have to try not to.

Other people encourage you to hate yourself all the time as they want you to hate yourself as much as they do.

 

[Ninae]

Kratom is still an addictive drug for those predisposed (like me). It's true some people can use opiates responsibly and not develop a problem but a worryingly large percentage of people do develop a very serious problem, which is why I would never recommend anyone to use them except in cases of severe physical pain. The temptation is far too great to go overboard when they're your tool for dealing with negative emotions. And once you've slid down that path they do nothing but greatly increase your pain and inability to deal with said pain except via opiates (and at some point you can't even really banish it with opiates anymore).

Yes, I'm very experienced with it, but don't find it causes 1/3 of the problem synthetic opiates can. But while we're on the subject, do many know that Myrrh (as resin or extract) is a powerful opiate enhancer? Especially for Kratom, which tends to lose its effect after 3-5 days when you have a tolerance, it really strengthens it.

Although it takes very little, just a bit is enough to put you to sleep, so you need to be careful and don't combine it away from home.

 

[Flickering]

Considered opiates once, was going to mix hash and poppies just two or three times, but got advice on this board that it wasn't worth the risk and took it from people who know their shit better than I do.

Yes, it does also turn to self-hate, and I think it comes from the same place. I'm too wary of contradictions to let myself get away with hating the human race, when I know hate is the problem. So then I start to hate myself over it because I'm just as much a part of the problem. For instance.

 

[Ninae]

I think this is at the basis of many problems. Or feeling worthless and treating others like they're worthless. It's almost universal as everyone has some type of weakness to attack. Even a strength can be turned into a weakness, so you need to realise you can't really win with humanity.

When you've come to terms with that things start feeling a bit easier. Like my family priest likes to say, we're all human, and no one are perfect. Maybe someone's problem is too little confidence, and someone's else's problem is too much, but either way you can't please everyone.

They will crucify you for every little thing they can think of, it just seems to be in human nature. If you're unkind that's wrong, if you're too kind you're an idiot with a weakness that can be exploited, etc. So I try not to get involved in it and be more tolerant and forgiving, as it's so destructive and ultimately harms yourself the most. But self-loathing is such a problem in the world.

 

[Flickering]

Yeah I think you're right about that. I can be so harsh when I judge people it feels like my mind is a sharp halberd. There's this sarcastic exasperated sneer to it, as though I'd like to crush them like a bug. This is for the seriously nasty people in the world; every time I hear about some new despot with his death camps and his statewide indoctrination disgusts me to my fucking core and I just think "DIE, you scumfucking piece of shit." I was also wronged by someone when I was younger who, while I don't want him to die, I used to remember to bitterly wish suffering on at least once a week for about three years straight, and constantly resented that there wasn't anything I could do to get back at him. That's hatred. It isn't really a nice feeling, it sets your whole mind on fire, and I can imagine it getting to the point of real madness in people. The way I got past that was to realise he already was miserable without me having to wish a damn thing. That may sound sappy, but in this case it was as true as it gets; this guy has a life I wouldn't wish on anyone, and he's miserable, and he brought it on himself. So, I don't need to waste time on him anymore.

Self-hate used to absolutely devour me. I'm gradually figuring out how to get past that. Seems to involve a lot of meditation and boxing.

 

[Ninae]

Just don't hate yourself and others. It's almost programmed into us from birth, so many things work to make us feel that way, but you don't need to. There's no arm that forces you to, although psychologically it can practically feel like that.

I think this is one of those things that lies deep in the subconscious, so even it's such a big thing we don't really see it for what it is. Although you almost get treated strangely if you're not like that, even if your emotional burden will be much less (but humans don't like to see someone unburdened).

Also, try not to energetically "curse" people, as that backfires as well. Instead, try getting into the habit of blessing people, it's something real that can be tangibly felt on higher levels of awareness. Most might laugh of this but it can be felt as a subtle but powerful positive energy going out from you (prayer can be like that as well). I don't know quite how it works, I just know that it does. Of course not in a superstitious kind of way, like you'll visibly save someone with a blessing or prayer over night, but it will send something beneficial their way that reaches them on some level. Also, if you're a blessing kind of person you will tend to be blessed.

 

[Flickering]

No, that's not superstitious, and I understand it a lot better after having taken ayahuasca last year.

 

[Ninae]

Sometimes when I take something that takes away negative feelings or energies it helps to lift me up to a high-consciousness state where I'm extemely spiritually sensitive. So when I get an impulse to pray (and in that state you do, you just know that it's good for something), it's like I can feel these very subtle currents of high-level spiritual energy flowing out through my hands, like a physical sensation. I also feel a sense of out-reaching in the heart and like I'm receiving something there in return at the same time.

Obviously sounds crazy to someone who hasn't experienced it, but that seems to be the nature of these things. I now realise this is something that is always going on underneath, I'm just usually too insensitive or low-consciousness to feel it (higher consciousness makes you more sensitive to energy). But this is truly a state of grace and life would be completely different if we felt like that all the time. It's not so much that you say "Wow, I can see God". More like feeling God and all the spiritual things are always here, like the air we breathe, but we're normally too blind or lacking in the senses to perceive it.

I think this is what "The Garden of Eden" is referring to. It might have been a paradisical place, but it's the consciousness that went before it that made it so. What we have now is pretty much the opposite of that (and a lot of resistance to change).

 

[ForEverAfter]

I used to hate the world. But, if you dissect it, that doesn't make any sense.
Everybody hates other people. We assume that we're okay and we're surrounded by assholes.
But, how can that be true for everyone?

The first post in this thread implies that you're better than your species.
You're more intelligent than the ignorant masses.
Your values are better than average.

I don't mean any offense, but maybe you're not that great?
I used to think a lot like you. But now I honestly don't look down on anyone.
When people frustrate me, I might get pissed off at them and judge them.
But, I'm only human. Afterwards, I always realize that I was wrong.
I think about it, until I can see beyond myself.

There is a reason for everything.
It's a terrible way to live, hating your species.
You must, by extension, hate yourself a little bit too.

You should consider trying to accept the world for what it is.
I mean, if you're not going to change it, why let it ruin your life?
You're just allowing negatives to multiply, aren't you?

Someone else could quite easily hate humanity after reading what you wrote about hating humanity and wanting all the ignorant fuck wits to burn in hell.
I mean, it's not a very positive sentiment... Violence is an act of hate. So, if it (hate) bothers you so much, why contribute? How is that going to help?

Not that there's anything wrong with venting your frustrations, of course. You should say how you feel.
I'm just saying that I've - honestly - been there, and that it can pass (if you allow it to).
I used to hate the world with a passion. Like SERIOUSLY fucking hate the world.
Now, I don't hate anyone any more.

I don't hate rapists.
I don't hate Hitler.
What's the point?

I hate Asians with a passion. I could go into the reasons why, but they're probably clear already to a lot of people here. It isn't that I hate everybody with Asian heritage, I just think the majority of Asians are violent, stupid and annoying, and I'm sick of being forced to share the planet with so many oriental fuckwits.

We recognize racism as wrong, socially, but it's acceptable for us to make the same hateful statements about our entire species.

You shouldn't be so critical.
We're doing the best we can.
We evolved from apes, remember?
Nobody taught us how to do this.

I think, sometimes, people have a tendency to be too hyper-aware of their place in the universe.

Fruit bats aren't good or bad. They're just fruit bats. So, why are we any different?
Maybe we're killing ourselves and taking the planet with us, but did we plan it that way?
If it is human nature to self-destruct, why do we act like it isn't?

If humanity was a person, this period of history would be the most depressed part of that person's life.
So many people hate themselves. We are, as a whole, mentally ill.
We blame ourselves for what we perceive as impending doom.
We can see the damage we've done and we keep doing it.
We think the end is coming and we don't want to die.
But, we should accept it (if that is our fate).

If our species has terminal cancer, it is not our fault.
These behaviors that disgust you. These ignorant people.
That's just life. It ends. And then life begins, anew.

Life is beautiful.
It is exactly what it is supposed to be.
And, people are behaving exactly as they should.

Every act of violence has a purpose.
It is in our nature to fight.
There is a reason for this.

There is always a reason.
Even when it can't be found.

 

[Flickering]

I like that post.

We get angrier at people than we get at lions because there are social codes. Of course, the codes often contradict each other, and nobody upholds theirs perfectly anyway.

To me, it gets agonising when it's just so obvious I don't see how anybody could deny that what they're doing is awful. Why are the so-called civilised nations of the world letting refugees drown at sea, torturing potentially innocent people and denying them the right to trial, and even interning children indefinitely in detention centres? Stuff like this just makes me look at the rest of the species and think... you guys don't even care anymore, do you? When it came to it, you were willing to sell your last ounce of decency for a new TV with more channels to cover home improvement shows and sports events.

I can't respect nations at all, when universally their populations endorse policies that are so jaw-droppingly evil it staggers me.

Do I think I'm better than the kinds of people who, right now, have locked other human beings up in supermax iso cubes and left them there for decades? Yes.

Do I think I'm better than the shoppers who get to go through their days thinking the world's running just fine? No, I'm just jealous.

 

[Foreigner]

I have traveled enough and have enough life experience to know that there are a thousand good things and a thousand bad things happening every minute at the hands of humans, all over the world. There are so many different realities and epistemologies happening right now, it's hard for me to say "same shit, different pile" about it. What I do know is that if you're experiencing high cynicism then it's due to your immediate environment or some kind of content you're ingesting, like the mass media. There is nothing more destructive to morale than, say, watching the news. I visited the U.S. a few times in the past year and holy moly... the kind of shit you guys are exposed to on a daily basis in the media is mind boggling.

Maybe you need a change of scenery, to a different way of living, in order to show yourself that some humans are living the better way that you currently condemn them for avoiding. A lot of people have this "common sense" you speak of and are working to make a difference, or at the very least making habitats for themselves that are less crazy making. I intend to be one of those people once my health improves. I can't take this city madhouse anymore.

 

[swilow]

^I think that's a good point foreigner. Change of scenery, or more controlled scenery, may help. I live in the foothills of the mountains (Dandenongs) and its hard to feel jaded and hateful when strolling amongst tall moss-bearded trees.

To me, it gets agonising when it's just so obvious I don't see how anybody could deny that what they're doing is awful. Why are the so-called civilised nations of the world letting refugees drown at sea, torturing potentially innocent people and denying them the right to trial, and even interning children indefinitely in detention centres? Stuff like this just makes me look at the rest of the species and think... you guys don't even care anymore, do you?

I think you should be wary of setting yourself apart from the rest of humanity. Functionally, you are simply another part of it. Unless you are actively doing something different, it sounds a bit like the right hand hating the left. If I point out a pile of shit, I'm not actually doing anything. If I clean it up, I am. Its easy to condemn the human race, but is actually a prime example of human arrogance and bias. We are already suffering from enough negativity here. Do we need naive misanthropy too.

Do I think I'm better than the kinds of people who, right now, have locked other human beings up in supermax iso cubes and left them there for decades? Yes.

But how are you better? Just because you aren't directly involved doesn't mean you are innocent. Current government policy is in keeping with the desires of many australians. People voted for ruthless right wing shit whilst we did little to offer an alternative. As I said, there isn't really anything admirable or noble about pointing out problems. Its the rectifying them that is important.

 

[himynameis...]

I've had very similar feelings in my life, and came to realize they were only reflections of my depression. Sure there are awful people doing awful things everywhere you go. But you are failing to see the love and compassion that so many people have. Judge others for their bad actions if you want, but try to understand people who hurt others are broken themselves.

You may think that people are evil but what makes you different. What have you done to make the world a better place? I am sure those who dedicate their lives helping others would look at your actions as unhelpful to bettering the human race. However, they would not judge you for doing so.

I am kinda fucked up so summary: your cynicism(sp?) is a reflection of your own negative self-image////there are no bad people, only good people and good people who are hurting//// unless you are actively trying to make the world a better place, don't judge others for making it worse

 

[Shrooms00087]

You can't hate people for doing people things. You can hate the things that drive people to do people things. So in that sense it isn't "common sense" as it requires too much knowledge. Your passions fool you into hating what you see as opposed to what is.

 

[socko]

I've had very similar feelings in my life, and came to realize they were only reflections of my depression. Sure there are awful people doing awful things everywhere you go. But you are failing to see the love and compassion that so many people have. Judge others for their bad actions if you want, but try to understand people who hurt others are broken themselves.

You may think that people are evil but what makes you different. What have you done to make the world a better place? I am sure those who dedicate their lives helping others would look at your actions as unhelpful to bettering the human race. However, they would not judge you for doing so.

I am kinda fucked up so summary: your cynicism(sp?) is a reflection of your own negative self-image////there are no bad people, only good people and good people who are hurting//// unless you are actively trying to make the world a better place, don't judge others for making it worse

Why do you believe somebody not actively tryign to imporve thigns shouldn't judge others for makig it worse? On the contrary, you should judge others so you can see what they are doing wrong and therefore know what not to do with your life.

I actually have dedicated my life to trying to make the world a better place. I'm a research scientist trying to find a cure for a disease that affects millions. Before I got into this, I had an opinion about humanity and gettign into this only confirms it. People suck, even in my field. I mean MOST people, like more than 90% of them, both individually and collectively.

Even if you aren't actively trying to make things better, you can still be good or at least neutral, but most people don't even bother with that. It's not so bad if you can just avoid making things worse - don't have more than your fair share of children, don't particiate in American style Consumer Culture, vote against Corporatist political parties, don't work for unethical employers or do unethical things for a living (e.g. DEA agent, career politician, Wall Street Banker, peddlar of child pornography, etc) , follow the Golden Rule - think of others before yourself, be altruistic, etc.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Hard not to feel that way Flickering at times. We are intentionally inundated by fear on a daily basis. Just check the news. The law of attraction states that like attracts like. When you tap into your own anger, fear and disgust and and don't explore it but instead inadvertently direct it outward it colors the world in a shade of the same. How quickly we begin to see the reality we project! The world is a movie directed exclusively for the beholder. We are all directing our own reality, and reality is directing us through our perception of it. To escape this unescapable paradox we feel the fear, anger and disgust in ourselves until it transforms into something else. We allow our perception to be corrected for us while consciously engaging in the process. Then we look out in the world. Magically almost, the world is something else. Have we fooled ourselves? Not really, the world we see is the world we see, and trust me, when your see it with true eyes it is inevitably beautiful, flowing and filled with possibility and creation.