Stimulants I took a bunch of Adderall for finals, and now I don't get effects- supplements fix?

[stillcloudstill]

I've got a lot of experience with stimulants, but maybe it's my age (I'm 29) and I've got less neuroplasticity, but after spending all-night and the next morning with say 100mg(?) followed by 60mg or so in the afternoon after no sleep to take an exam, the next day I noticed I just don't get that get-up-and-go feeling from stimulants anymore. In fact, my concentration while on them the next day was markedly declined-- I'd read out of a book, and have to re-read paragraphs again and again. That part subsided after the next day, luckily, but now I just don't feel my smart self anymore when I'm on these-- the motivation is somewhat shot. I can still "lock in" with high doses, but it's not the same-- I'm not sure how to explain it, but that buzz, the energy to want to connect so many ideas to one another, it seems muted, at least when I was forcing myself to finish up my last term paper on time. It got in, but it wasn't brilliant, just followed a formulaic style of analysis I built up in writing so many earlier term papers in the semester.

Is this a temporary thing? I stopped taking any Adderall after the term paper was in on the 18th, hoping the break until I need to go to classes for a special term class starting Jan 3 start up is enough of a drug holiday for my dopamine to rebuild itself somewhat. I've read dopamine can invert the receptors so it's as if it's not there, like they go inside out, and also they can die out so there's less to fire off.... if anyone knows any supplements that are helpful (and god, please don't tell me that ignorant shit about "reverse tolerance" studies--- reverse tolerance doesn't mean reverses tolerance, it's not what it sounds like).

Also, I'm impotent from taking 1500mg of Effexor once, have been for a year now, and doctors won't acknowledge this is a thing, and I'm looking for a prosthetic penis surgery unless I can find an alternative.... this is relevant to the thread because I suspect serotonin entered my dopamine receptors, per a study on medline of SSRIs, and ever since, I've had anhedonia. If I can reset my dopamine somehow, both problems will be fixed.

Ibogaine? Anyone know any research that actually proves it does in fact "reset" dopamine receptors, like, and through what mechanism? neuron-regenuesis, maybe? Or is it just speculative marketing by ibogaine clinics? I've had brief psychosis episode, so I'm wary it might induce a bad trip, but maybe if I get a prescription for an antipsychotic immediate injection before going, I could get that in case I have a bad trip....

anyhow, anyone notice amphetamine didn't work for a bit, and then a few weeks later, they were fine again? because the concentration issue only lasted a day or two. supplements? I'm trying tyrosine with b6 and noticing nothing, but maybe that needs constant dosing for 3 months? citicoline / CDP Choline? Aricept? please help.

 

[helium-4]

You need a break on the stims. There is no way to get back the desired effects besides taking breaks in between use, getting sleep every night, and eating healthy. When you stay up all night on amphetamine, then take amphetamines the next day with no sleep, they will not work as desired. Your concentration will be shot. You'll not get the stimulant type effects. It will just keep you awake.

So if you are going to use amphetamine for school take the dose during the day (lower dose than you need to get high, if you keep dosing high, you'll shoot your tolerance up sooo high), do you work, eat and drink alot, and don't stay awake more than 24 hours (it's best to stay awake the same amount of time you normally would in a day 16 hours or so). Wake up in the morning, get some excercise, eat healthy, dose, and do the same as you did the day before. Don't over do it. Don't redose 4-6 times a day. Really you should only dose 3 times a day max (2 redoses after the initial). The more you redose the less and less effective it becomes.

 

[ErgicMergic]

Tolerance is your mind's way of maintaining a harmonious balance, and is also a sign from your mind for you to slow your roll.

You can't abuse amps to feel amazingly tweaked and productive all day and not expect your brain to adapt through DA downregulation, DA neurotransmitter exhaustion, amp tolerance, and Dopamine receptor autoxidation (receptor death caused by too much DA released from taking 30mg of IR Adderall or more at a time).

You are taking massive doses of amphetamines... you should take no more than 20-30mg Adderall or 20-30mg Dexedrine a day, imo, and no more than 10-15mg at a time. Taking more than that is setting yourself up for failure - you need your Dopamine receptors, they are the kefi (spirit) of life... dopamine is what got you out of bed this morning and what made you say, "hell yeah, bring this day ON!" If you allow them to literally curl back and permanently die for the sake of passing a test, or even for the reason of pure hedonism, then by all means, it's your life, do as you please. Just be safe and find out about the real and permanent side effects of this "Super-Man" high.

Here is some related reading that any Bluelighter should read, if they even think about abusing methamphetamine and other amphetamines, like Adderall or Dexedrine.

 

[blight12]

^^ Great post! Is there any way to determine the equivalent crystal meth dose to 30mg Adderall? Its just that number sounds so small compared to my meth doses which i always thought was much stronger compared to normal amps? I usually do .1-.2 of decent crystal... Is there some sort of reliable estimated conversion?

 

[shreddedlettuce]

Dude, your crystal is stronger.
I don't have scientific proof, but....dude, your crystal is stronger.

 

[JunkieDays]

I used to be big on adderall back in highschool.
Anyways, same thing happend to me. I didn't get 'high' from it anymore.
I took a month or so break and popped a 30 and still didn't get high.
Maybe I was sold bunk adderall (doubt it) but, I haven't tried any since then.

 

[pancakepirate]

I had a somewhat similar experience, too. I should probably preface by saying that I am totally addicted to Rx amphetamines. I also had a stint with meth when I was 17, but I don't use it anymore. However, I often take doses exceeding 200 mg.

At one point a few years ago, I was abusing Adderall pretty heavily because I had severe depression and was also very active in an eating disorder. I was still getting the euphoria, enhanced concentration, etc. I didn't take it for a few months -- probably around 6 months or so -- because I was making another attempt at sobriety, but my then girlfriend had a prescription, so I asked for one. The high was TOTALLY different, even though I hadn't done it for awhile. The euphoria was replaced with irritability, and instead of being able to concentrate better, I was super scatter-brained. I don't know what caused the shift, especially since I had not ever had that experience previously and hadn't taken them in awhile.

I don't even like the high anymore, but I still feel compelled to take them in excess. Alcohol and amphetamines are my biggest weaknesses when it comes to abuse, and I am at that point where I don't even enjoy them. I just still feel like I need them.

Maybe you should consider getting a non-amphetamine ADD/ADHD medication? I've done Provigil before, but I didn't find that it helped my concentration, but I know it helps a lot of people. Just don't expect any sort of high or buzz. It might not be what you want, but it's probably better than using the amount of Adderall you're taking.

 

[Znegative]

Same thing happened to me, but I also would experience hallucinations when taking stims. However my experience was slightly different. For one, I had been binging on D.R.I's (Dopamine Reuptake Inhibitors-mainly IV cocaine and IV MDPV/other RC Cathinones) primarily as opposed to Amphetamines. I eventually entered a state of acute psychosis after about ten days of shooting the PV, and luckily I ran out of the shit a day or two later after this episode. I then actually did take a month long break, and then ran into some money, some Adderall and some cocaine, spent the weekend shooting both, felt nothing but almost immediate hallucinations (of course, I continued to inject the coke as I was longing so badly for that rush). I turned out that I got MRSA from reusing a needle and spent a month in a hospital, and then didn't touch stimulants for another 5 months.

The strange thing is that before this massive binge, 5mg of Adderall definitely had effect, and 10mg (this is assuming I was taking amphetamines only once a week or so) would have me feeling really euphoric. Now, nearly 1 1/2 years later, even after taking long breaks (over a month), I need at least 20mg to feel the shit. At the same time, as long as I don't redose throughout the day, I never have to raise my dose above 30mg, and seem to stabalize at that dose, getting consistent effects with once daily dosing. I have realized though, after binging one day a few months back, taking about 100mg throughout the course of a day, that amphetamines seem to lose there effect past a certain dosage, increasing the dosage will not produce more euphoria, but rather just increase nasty peripheral effects.

As for the relative potency of d-amphetamine to d-methamphetamine, from my limited experience with the latter, Meth is around two times stronger. It's kind of hard to say really because the two have rather drastically different effects (it should be noted that I injected meth and smoked it only, whereas I only plug or swallow regular amphetamine). dextro-Methamphetamine is prescribed pharmaceutically in certain cases when other medications fail to work or have too many side effects, and the usual dose range starts at 5mg, and ends at (I believe) 20-30mg, so it would make sense if it was around twice as strong, as I believe the highest dosage of Adderall that can be prescribed is 60mg a day (though I have heard some people claim they've seen people prescribed 30mgx90 of the IR Adderall).

 

[shreddedlettuce]

(it should be noted that I injected meth and smoked it only, whereas I only plug or swallow regular amphetamine).

The different ROA's with methamphetamine is almost like taking a different drug.
I'm not promoting it, but taken orally at prescribed doses or less, for patients who really need it, it is pretty much easier on the body than the newer stimulants.
If it wasn't then desoxyn wouldn't exist and think of how long methamphetamine has been around.

Main point is the different ROA's having major differences on the user, Zneg I know you know this, but am just putting this post out there for those users who are looking for safer ways to do whatever they plan on doing.

 

[helium-4]

Because if you actually did any research on the subject, eating healthy, sleeping every night, and not over doing amphetamines is the best way to maximize the effects of amphetamine for recreational or school use. This isn't preaching nor unfounded bullshit, it is the truth. There are not quick fixes in the world. Even vitamins and shit like that aren't going to fix the problems. They can slightly help, but you'd get more from getting the vitamins and nutrients from real food and drinks. Its better to get the nutrients and vitamins from real food than it is from pills and shit, so that is why people suggest eating healthy food. And there is no replacement for sleep. There is no pill that will make it so your body is refreshed like it took a 8-9 hour sleep.

Sorry if you don't like to hear about the best way to help your body out in these type of situations, but that is the way your body works.

 

[stillcloudstill]

I don't understand why on OD there are so many threads filled with responses that don't answer the OP's question but are just endless preaching. It can be very frustrating. Especially when it's unfounded bullshit claims like "only sleep and a healthy diet will get you back to normal". Of course it helps, but there are things one can do on top of that to speed up recovery.

No, most of us here are in dire need of preaching, including me. Most of what you call "preaching" i really just reminding me of what I already know to do and should follow, and it's important to get that kind of moral support where we're all looking out for each other here. This is, after all, a harm reduction forum.

Anyhow, after a week and a half of abstaining from any Adderall and taking tyrosine with B-6 and Bronchaid (ephederine, 25mg extra strength pill in morning-- for that first 3 days of crashing, Bronchaid keeps you out of bed)-- after all that, I took 20 mg of Adderall after another good night's sleep along with tyrosine/b6 capsules I have (500mg taken 3x/day) and it was as good as new.

I don't try to get high, it's just this past semester, I was taking 4 classes in my major (English) and they were all level 300 courses and had a lot of reading and in one class, I had to read a play of Shakespeare's, read a film adaptation of it, and write an essay including lots of references to the text. Every week. Then there were research papers, group projects, mid-terms, finals-- it was too much. I'm taking a class over January break that meets fridays, saturdays and sundays for 5 hours each for three weekends, and then I'm finished with one of my four courses for the semester before the semester officially begins. That should lighten my load this spring, freeing me up to actually go to Cogntivie Behavorial Therapy sessions each week to keep my head straight.

Also, when I was on Vyvanse, I never re-dosed, because that would have meant not sleeping, and besides, Vyvanse stops metabolizing after 200mg/day, and I take 140mg/day rx'd when I'm on it (equal to 60mg Adderall XR). It's the fact Adderall's immediate release, it means there's more room to obsess about how much better a paper might be if I took another. With Vyvanse, I accept I'm going to have good days, bad days, and that I'm not Superman.

I am switching clinics to one that likely will switch me to vyvanse; my current doc wouldn't prescribe more than 70mg/day, and I get no effect from that, can't read even, but my insurance is cool and authorizes me for up to 170mg/day (cigna medicare rx; I have disability, but I'm planning to get a desk job once I finally complete my B.A. next year).

So there's my life story. When I took Desoxyn, I didn't take more than prescribed, except maybe during finals week like everyone else in my college. Desoxyn is more pure than meth on the street. FDA requires drugs to be within 99.1% or more of purity, and often they're 99.5% or better. For one thing, it's the right-handed isomer, dextro, of methamphetamine, so it's twice as potent as racemic methamphetamine, in case that ever is made. Secondly, the DEA's own lab analysis survey found the stuff they were analyzing in their labs sold as "meth" was 60-70% unmethylated, regular old amphetamine-- Adderall, only less potent, since it's not made by people with advanced chemistry degrees from the top of their Ivy league schools and with the same precision manufacturing equipment. But Mexico in the last two years has been swamping the U.S. with 90% pure methamphetamine (which may not be meth still, but that's what the media's claiming. But that 90% purity is new. Odds are, if you ever took meth, it was regular amphetamine, and came from a super lab. To give you an idea of how many superlabs there are, they shut down over 100 or more in a year in CA and also in Mexico, and most don't get found, because they're highly sophisticated operations. Each one can produce enough to flood entire cities with a surplus of meth-- so odds are, those small batch trailer parks you hear so much about never come close to making their product to anyone more than small circles of addicts.

Most meth actually comes from superlabs in California and Mexico, by chemists with degrees and somewhat advanced equipment, because their volume trumps the small batches that trailer parks make, which are just enough to satisfy the cravings of the cook and sell just enough leftovers to afford precursors for the next batch. Desoxyn is safe at low doses, I took it for 7 years.

What people don't realize is it's the dose that matters, and the route of administration. You can satisfy your cravings with low maintenance doses taken orally in gelatin capsules you can buy online, still feel the motivation to read or do a ton of work, but avoid the dose that causes euphoria. Long term, high doses conditions the D2 receptors to over-excitation, and recent findings point to amphetamine at high doses over prolonged periods resulting not in just amphetamine psychosis, but irreversible schizophrenia. That comes from the National Institute of Drug Abuse in a peer-reviewed finding.

As for psychosis, I took somewhat high doses of Dexedrine a couple of years ago for sbout s year, and wound up with brief psychotic episode that lasted a day. I didn't mess around-- I went to an ER, they transferred me to a hospital, and now I take an antipsychotic injection once a month that keeps it in my blood stream steady. It's been two years, and even though it was drug-induced, they didn't want to take any chances, so I'm still on the antipsychotic. They say a year or two of continued use suffices, but I might just stick with it because I'm on stims.

no, this isn't amphetamine-induced, I just felt it was important to address the many things that came up in this post. I feel like harm reduction is too often centered around things like needle exchanges and all, all of which is important, but no one ever seems to talk about how you still can satisfy your cravings, avoid withdrawal/hypersomnia/depression/anhedonia, still get loads of work done, just by taking the stuff in low maintence doses, the lowest effective therapeutic dose, by buying gelatin capsules and filling those. Long-term use does cause irreversible pychosis, just ask me and the recent poster on this thread. It's not worth it. Also, reports include prolonged high-dose use is linked with irreversible impotence, necessitating a prosthetic penile implant. I need to lookinto one because I took a high dose of Effexor last year. It's no fun.

 

[stillcloudstill]

And regarding the "sorry if you don't like to hear this" comment, I don't even fucking use amphetamines, so I'm not a speed freak in denial, I was just adding my own 2c because the OP specifically asked what supplements can help. I provided an answer, in fact I was the only person who actually answered his question directly.

Wanker.

easy now. Let's not forget we're not here because are lives are super awesome, regardless of whether we're on one drug or another. The last thing we need is to be shooting each other down, instead of lifting one another up-- even if our first impression is we're being accused of something we're not. I frankly found every single poster in this thread incredibly supportive to me, just coming at different angles, all of which I appreciate.

I don't think the commenter you're referring to was trying to suggest you are some misguided tweaker; he understandably felt there was the perception that you thought the "preaching" wasn't helpful. I can understand why you thought this, thinking on a more pharmacologically-minded basis than a holistic one, nothing wrong with that, they all contribute to useful knowledge.

I take magnesium, 50mg 3x/day, but I think it acts primarily by neuralizing stomach pH, I could be wrong. I've tried memantine, and found no difference after 40mg for a month; maybe this was too short. I have taking vincopectine and piracetam and noticed zero difference; I believe studies failed to show clinical efficacy of the rams, but I heard there's a super potent one but I forgot the name of it. Anyhow, Aricept is the best for brain repair, when it is coupled with 500mg/day of citicoline (aka CDP Choline). Jarrow's Naturals is a good brand, although you can't as a consumer buy it in bulk, and it's like $30/bottle. Aricept at 10mg will cause diarrea, but I took 4 pepto bismos 2x/day when I took Aricept for 5 months, and I was fine. It makes your thoughts fast, and in me caused a pleasant hypomania (below mania, a mild form). But I was also taking 1mg 3x/day of klonopin then, so that quelled the racing thoughts, forced speech, etc. Your thoughts seem to become effortless on Aricept, but it takes about 3months to kick in, it needs to be taken with citicoline to potentiate its effect, and immodium AD is your friend while on it. I asked my doc for it by saying it might help my AD/HD's executive dysfunction component, and there are some studies for this.

Aricept and citicoline have been suggested in the literature as potential targets for "brain repair" in recovering stimulant addicts. Citicholine increased my Lumosity.com cognitive score, as did 25mg of DHEA (but take DHEA in the morning to avoid insomnia).

i thank you for your knowledge in supplements to help me, and trust you just blew a fuse that isn't like you by calling my friend a name. take care, cloud